RE: Saito 72 -vs- YS .63

RE: Saito 72 -vs- YS .63
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RE: Saito 72 -vs- YS .63 - 3/28/2004 4:41:43 PM

Josey Wales

Posts: 4682
Joined: 7/27/2003
From: **, NJ, USA
Status: online

3d..If you dont know how to properly tune an engine it doesnt matter which one you get OS YS Saito TT Enya etc none will run right...Ive never had a YS so I cant tell you about them..However I have 7 Saitos and I can tell you that once set up they are about as trouble free as you can get..I just got a new 100 and ran 2 tanks on the ground reset the low end and flew about 5 flights with no deadsticks. This while running rich on the top end..I have the 100 idle at 2400 now and that will get better.. Sounds to me like those guys you are talking about dont have the needles tuned..I have a 65 Saito thats about 9 years old and still starts on the first try..and I never use an elec starter!!!

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(in reply to ChuckAuger)

Post #: 26

RE: Saito 72 -vs- YS .63 - 3/28/2004 5:26:43 PM

3d-aholic

Posts: 1992
Joined: 10/7/2003
From: Austin, TX, USA
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quote:

ORIGINAL: bentgear

3d-alcoholic, the 3 Saito engines you see running at your field are not representative of the brand. You do have to tune them correctly. That said, if you saw these 3 guys running YS engines you would have an even bigger hesitation about YS.

Just get one or the other and go have a good time. Chances are you will own the other brand at some point and can do your own comparison.

Ed M.

True...I'm 90% sure the engines are set wrong....but when I tell them...they say its the prop or some other innoculous thing. I have never had a Saito or YS...but I do not 4 cycle engines use to suck in general a long time ago. That fear of how they "use to" suck and how they sucked ....looks awfully familar to the problems these folks are seeing in the Saito. Hopefully all of those problems are long gone. So probably either one of these engines will be ok if set up properly.

I think the hesitation everyone sees in this decision is that when you buy an engine your going to have it for a long time. For instance, I have an OS 52 that has about 15 flights on it and now I'm going to have to sell it. I payed $190 and I'll be lucky if I get $110. The engine is really too small for most applications. So you want to get an engine that won't be a paper weight....and will work in applications of an overpowered 40 range or the low end of a 60 plane. I'm not allowed to have more than a certain number of planes...so I don't see how I'll ever own both a YS and a Saito...unless I sell one of them.

(in reply to bentgear)

Post #: 27

RE: Saito 72 -vs- YS .63 - 3/28/2004 6:14:14 PM

3d-aholic

Posts: 1992
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From: Austin, TX, USA
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quote:

ORIGINAL: ChuckAuger

I put the tank in the wing for a purely aesthetic reason..hanging the tank off the side just doesn't look as good.

Yes....were you able to get a bigger tank size by putting it in the wing. The 4 oz tank they recommend for the plane to me would be like 6-8 mins. of flying....which is not enough.

How big of tank are you using and how long can you fly on it? Will the 63 use less fuel than the 72?

You have to use a seamless tank right? Where do you get those?

< Message edited by 3d-alcoholic -- 3/28/2004 1:14:46 PM >

(in reply to ChuckAuger)

Post #: 28

RE: Saito 72 -vs- YS .63 - 3/28/2004 11:20:23 PM

ChuckAuger

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Joined: 12/5/2001
From: Pampa, TX, USA
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It's just an 8 oz. You can get a bigger tank hanging off the side than you can in the wing. I don't know how long it flys, I'd say 8 to 10 minutes, maybe more. Less if you use much throttle. I just kinda guess at it, if you want every last second, mount the tank on the fuse for sure. There is no free lunch, the Saito will get better fuel mileage. Also, an engine running more nitro will get less time on a given tank size than one running less nitro. I just use Dubro or Sullivan tanks (not a sullivan flex, just the hard plastic) and don't wrap them in tape or any of that stuff.

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Post #: 29

RE: Saito 72 -vs- YS .63 - 3/29/2004 1:33:57 AM

3d-aholic

Posts: 1992
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From: Austin, TX, USA
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Thanks Chuck...I'll be plenty happy if I can fit an 8oz tank. Its surprising though that the 72 with a larger ID bore/stroke would use less fuel....I guess the YS must suck the fuel down than with it being supercharged. I don't understand the supercharging though reading everything.

Supercharging involves adding more oxygen. I see the tank pressurization which would allow you to put the tank anywhere and always be assured of fuel reaching the engine. But that is fuel -- not oxygen. But studying the carb....I don't see what allows it to supercharge. Normally a supercharge involves providing an extraneous source of air (belt driven supercharger) or scavenged Oxygen (Nitrous). I like superchargers -- thats why I got my Mini.

The feature of pressurized fuel to me seems like the biggest advantage to the YS in 3d flying. Having a dead stick 10 feet off the ground is not a good thing. That feature is why I'm leaning towards the YS. I have a Magnum 46 and it has been doing that to me lately so that is why I have been thinking about putting in a 4-stroker in the first place. I want to be permantly rid of that problem. The problem I have currently is tank placement. If I'm going to buy another engine and still could have that problem...I may as well stick with the .46. Thats my thinking anways. And tank placement in a 3d plane is pretty meaningless anyways...since the orientation of the plane changes drastically and constantly.

< Message edited by 3d-alcoholic -- 3/28/2004 8:36:23 PM >

(in reply to ChuckAuger)

Post #: 30

RE: Saito 72 -vs- YS .63 - 3/29/2004 5:27:21 PM

ChuckAuger

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From: Pampa, TX, USA
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All else being equal, an engine that makes more power will use more fuel (this is a broad generalization...the YS, being a slightly more powerful engine, uses more fuel to make the power. No big surprise once you get past the displacements). Also, since YS engines are generally more happy on 20% nitro fuel with 20% oil, they will burn more fuel than an engine running 10% nitro and 18% oil.

The YS "supercharging" isn't due to a roots blower or any of that. All supercharging is is introducing a fuel/air mixture to the intake valve at higher than atmospheric pressure. A tuned pipe is a popular supercharger for 2 stroke engines. The YS uses a rear disk induction (looks like a RIRE 2 Stroke disk..) to slightly increase the pressure of the intake charge before the intake valve opens.

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RE: Saito 72 -vs- YS .63 - 3/29/2004 6:04:16 PM

SMALLFLY-

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From: Evansville, IN, USA
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As I understand it, you plan the motor on an edge profile, right. I recommend the saito, It is a bit lighter, you can run your saito on 10% nitro and still have blow out power on a profile edge (mine saito72, OMP edge combo). The saito 72 is a great running motor and can be had for around 200 bucks at chief, nothing against the YS, you just dont need to spend the extra money on this application. I use a apc 14-4 wide on my saito 72, havent tached it, dont care, It will take off in 3-4 feet from grass, hovers at 25-30% power and blows out of hover like a bat out of heII

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Post #: 32

RE: Saito 72 -vs- YS .63 - 3/29/2004 6:11:46 PM

3d-aholic

Posts: 1992
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From: Austin, TX, USA
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Well, we are only talking about $20 more to get the YS...on an expense of $200...thats only 10%. I want to get the right thing.

What I'm worried about is reliability. I'm also worried that 3 separate people at my field (2 Saito 72's BTW) and none of them can keep it running long enough to take off or not get a deadstick.

Either engine has plenty power thats for sure. But will the YS give me more reliability for changing attitudes?? Right now my .46 dies when I try and do crazy things with it because the tank is too high (on a spad3d...theres no a lot of places to put the tank). So, if I nose up, then give it full down and advance the throttle...the engine has died 4-5 times now. Why....its too rich and it flames out. Why is it too rich....because if I lean it out for level flight, when I hover it overheats and dies. The YS ends that problem for good....no matter what orientation the tank is to the engine, the pressurized tank creates steady-state flow to the engine. One dead stick less is worth $20... Thats my thinking... Is it wrong?

(in reply to SMALLFLY-)

Post #: 33

RE: Saito 72 -vs- YS .63 - 3/29/2004 7:57:34 PM

SMALLFLY-

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From: Evansville, IN, USA
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Mine has been flying great for well over a year, The problem at your field may well be low ends too rich. Typically most saito's come way too rich on the low needle from the factory, They also work much better with the OS F plug, just changing the plug can make a huge difference. I know of 3 saito 72's on OMP edges right now at our field all flying great. But hey choose what you like, It's all good. The saito does have a 3 year warranty as well and horizon is a pretty good service center. I have had 5 saitos over the past 5 years and the 100 is the only one Ive ever had a problem with (bad bearings within 10 flights).

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Post #: 34

RE: Saito 72 -vs- YS .63 - 3/29/2004 8:34:35 PM

JIMBO D

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Joined: 9/22/2003
From: HASTINGS, UNITED KINGDOM
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Hard choice isn't it! Two great engines with good and bad stories about both. I had this exact same choice to make a few months ago.I eventually went with the YS even with coolpower 20% costing,,,, wait for it,, the equivalent of $36 dollars a gallon here in the UK!The YS has been awesome so far.A couple of tanks of fuel on the ground and then straight in the air. I tached it yesterday on a 13 x 6 apc at 11600 rpm and this is on a rich setting. I have not touched the idle mixture and yet the pick up from idle to max rpm and back to an instant rock steady idle in little more than a second is awesome! I am very impressed so far

Jim

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Post #: 35

RE: Saito 72 -vs- YS .63 - 3/29/2004 8:54:28 PM

3d-aholic

Posts: 1992
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From: Austin, TX, USA
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What bad stories...I haven't heard any bad stories about the YS. People say its hard to tune --- they say that about every engine make and model. OS, TT, Magnum, Tower...the list is endless.

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Post #: 36

RE: Saito 72 -vs- YS .63 - 3/29/2004 9:02:33 PM

3d-aholic

Posts: 1992
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From: Austin, TX, USA
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quote:

ORIGINAL: JIMBO D

Hard choice isn't it! Jim

Very hard...says a lot about Saito and YS that both are very much equal values.

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Post #: 37

RE: Saito 72 -vs- YS .63 - 3/29/2004 9:06:04 PM

3d-aholic

Posts: 1992
Joined: 10/7/2003
From: Austin, TX, USA
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: smallfly-RCU
The problem at your field may well be low ends too rich.

I'm sure listening to the engine from the pits....thats 90% of the problem. But I also went and turned one over after a flight that had about a gallon through it and it was still stiff as a board....so the other problem with Saito is that it must take one heck of amount of break-in before it settles down.

How much time on your Saito do you have or did it take before it would reliably idle?

(in reply to SMALLFLY-)

Post #: 38