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RE: ThunderTiger Rare Bear - 1/24/2007 5:39 AM   
rare_bear



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Status: offline 		i believe their navy blue f8f is the same as the rare bear.

they only needed to paint with blue and use blue covering. they also injection molded a larger canopy. other than that, the internal guts are the same crap.

so yeah, it was very cheap for the to design a navy version since it involved minimal design effort.

i don't know about the red september fury

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RE: ThunderTiger Rare Bear - 1/24/2007 6:32 AM   
forestroke



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Status: offline 		I would give thumbs up to the WM Dago Red. I've seen those sporting YS110 running around without as much as a hiccup. Scary though. When they come around for the pass in front of the stands, I always tried to hide behind something. Never know when one of those screaming crazies loses control.

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RE: ThunderTiger Rare Bear - 1/24/2007 6:38 AM   
rare_bear



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the buddy i fly with has a wm dago red.
i had an alley cat (before crashing into his wm yellow mustang that is)

anyway, we both flew at about the same speed between 135-140mph.

both models are excellent.

i believe the kyosho kelly F1 is probably even faster (stuffed with a ys110.)


hay, does anyone herein go the REAL reno races?

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RE: ThunderTiger Rare Bear - 1/24/2007 6:55 AM   
babenson


 

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Status: offline 		Great, thanks for the explanation. Any Rare_Bear, based on your info, I called TT today and asked them if the addressed all of the issues with the RB in the September Fury, and they told me absolutelly. The stab issues are no longer a problem, the vertical stab is all fiberglass not and the horizontal is like a rock....which it actually is.

Not to sound defensive at all, I appreciate any and all info I can get, but when I have this much darn money in a plane, the last thing I want to hear is that its going to disintegrate on me in mid air.

and to the last post by Kochj, I cannot find any info on the TT Sept Fury anywhere....

I have one final question, In talking with TT today, I asked him how much weight I am going to have to add to the nose. He said he has a TT .91 and added a "bunch of weight" but did not know how much exactly. He did say that a pound or so is not out of the question. Does this sound right to you guys?

You guys have been very helpful.

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RE: ThunderTiger Rare Bear - 1/24/2007 6:59 AM   
hattend



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Status: offline 		I'll go out on a limb here and say the TT F8F is Rare Bear in Navy colors.

Don

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RE: ThunderTiger Rare Bear - 1/24/2007 6:50 PM   
rare_bear



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quote:

Not to sound defensive at all, I appreciate any and all info I can get, but when I have this much darn money in a plane, the last thing I want to hear is that its going to disintegrate on me in mid air.


A lot of people end up "marrying" their plane. When someone comes along and shoots it down, they end up getting all defensive like when they say "the last thing I want to hear is that its going to disintegrate on me in mid air."

Approaching your plane objectively and not emotionally (I have this much money ties in it, the last thing i wanna hear...) is a better way to weigh in what others are saying in a logical fashion. If the plane has known problems, by all means, go and fix these problems before that pile of money ends up in the trash. Personally, I WANT to know about a planes intrinsic problems.

I am currently building a dymond model products f8f bearcat. I will be the first to admit that the kit is substandard. I had to do a lot of reinforcement along the way to make it (for what i believe to be) structurally sound. This is another one of these planes that looks good on the outside but is not so good on the inside.

Good luck.

for reference:
http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/m_2198367/anchors_5313432/mpage_18/anchor/tm.htm#5313432

quote:

I called TT today and asked them if the addressed all of the issues with the RB in the September Fury, and they told me absolutelly. The stab issues are no longer a problem, the vertical stab is all fiberglass not and the horizontal is like a rock....


Well, in my opinion & experiences here of course, you really gotta check things out for yourself.Keep in mind that it is the best interest of Ace hobbies to say that their products are "absolutely rock solid." they are in business to make money. But I have heard many people complain in this forum that they call up Ace and get the run-around... so yeah, check everything out for yourself instead of taking the manufacturers word for it. - this applies to all products. I think that (after filtering) you get a tremendous amount of GOOD information in these forums from people who have actually built and tested this product.


< Message edited by rare_bear -- 1/24/2007 8:50 PM >

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RE: ThunderTiger Rare Bear - 1/24/2007 11:08 PM   
babenson


 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: rare_bear

quote:

Not to sound defensive at all, I appreciate any and all info I can get, but when I have this much darn money in a plane, the last thing I want to hear is that its going to disintegrate on me in mid air.


A lot of people end up "marrying" their plane. When someone comes along and shoots it down, they end up getting all defensive like when they say "the last thing I want to hear is that its going to disintegrate on me in mid air."

Approaching your plane objectively and not emotionally (I have this much money ties in it, the last thing i wanna hear...) is a better way to weigh in what others are saying in a logical fashion. If the plane has known problems, by all means, go and fix these problems before that pile of money ends up in the trash. Personally, I WANT to know about a planes intrinsic problems.



The last thing I want to hear is that my plane is "going to disintegrate in mid-air" is perfectly NON emotional response to a comment that was not backed up. It was given freely as opinion and was not until I pried it out of you that you explained yourself. To your point that you keep preaching, "check things out for yourself" is exactly what I am doing, and based on your initial reply, what you are preaching to me is in sharp contrast to what you are doing..... doncha think?

"Personally, I WANT to know about a planes intrinsic problems."
Exactly. That is why I went to this forum in the first place (to learn about a planes strengths and weaknesses) and with the exception of YOU, I got great feedback and continue to. But you’re irresponsible or "facetious" as you put it, comments were only the complete opposite of what your stating now. And you made them without an explanation. This is also in sharp contrast to the philosophy and rhetoric you are preaching here.


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RE: ThunderTiger Rare Bear - 1/24/2007 11:11 PM   
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Status: offline 		But I would still love to hear how much additional weight people are putting in the nose of their TT RB or TT Sept Furies.

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RE: ThunderTiger Rare Bear - 1/25/2007 12:53 AM   
rare_bear



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quote:

and with the exception of YOU... ...But you’re irresponsible or "facetious" as you put it, comments were only the complete opposite of what your stating now.


then with the exception of maybe the last and possibly first few pages, i guess ya didn't go back and real all 61 pages througout this forum, didja?

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RE: ThunderTiger Rare Bear - 1/25/2007 2:14 AM   
jfetter


 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: babenson


quote:

ORIGINAL: rare_bear

quote:

Not to sound defensive at all, I appreciate any and all info I can get, but when I have this much darn money in a plane, the last thing I want to hear is that its going to disintegrate on me in mid air.


A lot of people end up "marrying" their plane. When someone comes along and shoots it down, they end up getting all defensive like when they say "the last thing I want to hear is that its going to disintegrate on me in mid air."

Approaching your plane objectively and not emotionally (I have this much money ties in it, the last thing i wanna hear...) is a better way to weigh in what others are saying in a logical fashion. If the plane has known problems, by all means, go and fix these problems before that pile of money ends up in the trash. Personally, I WANT to know about a planes intrinsic problems.



The last thing I want to hear is that my plane is "going to disintegrate in mid-air" is perfectly NON emotional response to a comment that was not backed up. It was given freely as opinion and was not until I pried it out of you that you explained yourself. To your point that you keep preaching, "check things out for yourself" is exactly what I am doing, and based on your initial reply, what you are preaching to me is in sharp contrast to what you are doing..... doncha think?

"Personally, I WANT to know about a planes intrinsic problems."
Exactly. That is why I went to this forum in the first place (to learn about a planes strengths and weaknesses) and with the exception of YOU, I got great feedback and continue to. But you’re irresponsible or "facetious" as you put it, comments were only the complete opposite of what your stating now. And you made them without an explanation. This is also in sharp contrast to the philosophy and rhetoric you are preaching here.



babenson,

I think you are on the defensive here when rarebear was really just joking (sort of, I happen to agree that there is a better than 20% chance the RB might end up in more peices than the number you came to the field with, maybe minor, maybe major). As an impartial observer to both sides of this conversation, I think you are being too harsh for what appears to be genuine constructive criticism with a little levity thrown in.

Just my opinion...

Jack


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RE: ThunderTiger Rare Bear - 1/25/2007 2:18 AM   
jfetter


 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: babenson

But I would still love to hear how much additional weight people are putting in the nose of their TT RB or TT Sept Furies.



babenson,

It's hard for you to equate my setup to yours as I converted mine to electric but, even with my 2 x Thunder Power 8000 (4S4P) packs shifted as far forward as possible (and I mean THROUGH the firewall), I still had to add almost 6 ounces.

Here is a shot of my RB during construction of the battery tray before I balanced it and added the weight...

Jack

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RE: ThunderTiger Rare Bear - 1/25/2007 4:12 AM   
babenson


 

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Status: offline 		Jack



Your probably right. It was just such a stupid comment to make in the first place, but I will concede that maybe I am a little frustrated with the comment.


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RE: ThunderTiger Rare Bear - 1/25/2007 4:14 AM   
babenson


 

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Status: offline 		No, I did not. Maybe you were just having a bad moment. Enough about it, lets get back to the forum....Constructivly.


quote:

ORIGINAL: rare_bear

quote:

and with the exception of YOU... ...But you’re irresponsible or "facetious" as you put it, comments were only the complete opposite of what your stating now.


then with the exception of maybe the last and possibly first few pages, i guess ya didn't go back and real all 61 pages througout this forum, didja?



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RE: ThunderTiger Rare Bear - 1/25/2007 4:44 AM   
rare_bear



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Status: offline 		that's what i thought.... and it's well worth the effort.

(and no, i am not having a bad moment)


i wish you good luck with this airplane in achieving "stupid speed"

happy flying, k?

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
btw, reflecting back:

quote - rare bear:

''If you want flat out stupid speed, try a world models 46 sized mustang with a ys110 in it. that will get you 135-140mph and they will not self destruct unless you have a mid-air:''

quote - babenson:

''HUH!!! so your saying that the TT Rare Bear and the TT September Fury are going to self destruct on me in mid air?''

- - - - - - - - - - - - -

i should have immediately corrected your interpretation which is not what i stated.

i stated ''If you want flat out stupid speed, try a world models 46 sized mustang with a ys110 in it. that (the ys powered WM 46 size mustang) will get you 135-140mph and they (ys powered WM 46 size mustangs) will not self destruct unless you have a mid-air (collision)



comprende?
i guess i simply figured people wouild figure out what ''they'' and ''that'' meant in the context of the sentence and that most people know that a ''mid-air'' usually refers to a mid-air collision - but i was wrong.

< Message edited by rare_bear -- 1/25/2007 6:11 AM >

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RE: ThunderTiger Rare Bear - 1/25/2007 5:11 AM   
jfetter


 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: babenson

No, I did not. Maybe you were just having a bad moment. Enough about it, lets get back to the forum....Constructivly.



Ah yes, love is a beautiful thing :-p

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RE: ThunderTiger Rare Bear - 1/26/2007 2:40 AM   
babenson


 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: rare_bear

btw, reflecting back:

quote - rare bear:

''If you want flat out stupid speed, try a world models 46 sized mustang with a ys110 in it. that will get you 135-140mph and they will not self destruct unless you have a mid-air:''

quote - babenson:

''HUH!!! so your saying that the TT Rare Bear and the TT September Fury are going to self destruct on me in mid air?''



Who ar you kidding. Your inference was that the TT RB will self destruct and that the World Models would NOT unless you had a mid air (and yes, I understand what a mid air is). This was further supported when you went into your tangent about the failablilty of the TT RB and SF.

K!


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RE: ThunderTiger Rare Bear - 1/26/2007 2:41 AM   
babenson


 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: jfetter


quote:

ORIGINAL: babenson

No, I did not. Maybe you were just having a bad moment. Enough about it, lets get back to the forum....Constructivly.



Ah yes, love is a beautiful thing :-p



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RE: ThunderTiger Rare Bear - 1/26/2007 5:28 AM   
rare_bear



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quote:


This was further supported when you went into your tangent about the failablilty of the TT RB and SF.


i found a post (dated 1/23/2007 6:39:17PM) where i said "i don't know about the red september fury" but sure in heck can't see nutting about claiming it's "failability."



thanks and hay, when is your (rare bear) maiden gonna be?

< Message edited by rare_bear -- 1/26/2007 7:18 AM >

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RE: ThunderTiger Rare Bear - 1/27/2007 4:55 AM   
babenson


 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: rare_bear

quote:


This was further supported when you went into your tangent about the failablilty of the TT RB and SF.


i found a post (dated 1/23/2007 6:39:17PM) where i said "i don't know about the red september fury" but sure in heck can't see nutting about claiming it's "failability."



thanks and hay, when is your (rare bear) maiden gonna be?


OK truce...

I have the TT September Fury. I am hoping to get it in the air this weekend, but I still need to balance it out. At this point even with an OS 1.20 AX, I still need to ad at least a pound or more. I am hopeing that there is someone out there that has one and they can tell me how much weight they had to ad.

I am CG shy...crashed a few before I figured out what it was. Nothing like seeing your new airplane go nuts when you are on your maiden....




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RE: ThunderTiger Rare Bear - 1/27/2007 6:31 AM   
rare_bear



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Status: offline 		in case ya can't find anyone to offer some know-how on the s.f. center of gravity...

my 2 cents worth on c.g.

not all manuals are correct.

i look at where the recommended c.g. is relative to the wing spar (usually the thickest point of the wing). if it matches the wing spar in position, i may put it like a half-inch forward. what i usually do on all my warbirds to date if put some masking tape under the wing next to the fusalage ad mark where the spar is. then with my fingers on the spar location, i want to have a nose-heavy condition somewhere around aquarter to half inch.

my rationale here is to start out slightly nose heavy and make adjustements from there based on how it feels on landing and how it carves a highly banked turn. if it's really nose heavy, the nose will drop in highly banked turns. when the c.g. is moved back, the plane will track in the turn better and better as you hone in on the c.g. to where you like it.

in a nose heavy plane, there is more of a tendency to nose-in on landings. so when starting out, i usually don't put the cowl on right away either (rather scratch a valve cover than fiberglass) unless the engine protrudes far enough to eliminate the fiberg;lass from making contact

some guys at our field put shims on the rear gear block to make the wheels sit further forward and therefore, assist in preventing nose-ins. when the gear retract, the wheels have a slight tilt to them so that's the drawback i guess - but nobody sees that anyways.

just my 2-cents worth...

-yes, truce.

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RE: ThunderTiger Rare Bear - 1/27/2007 6:44 AM   
Cyclic Hardover



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Status: offline 		There are 1500 posts in this one thread. Most of them are saying the Rare Bear has a serious problem. A while back I saw the new TT Bearcat. Common sense tells me that as much as I would really like either one of them, I would not build one if it were given to me free.

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RE: ThunderTiger Rare Bear - 1/28/2007 2:07 AM   
babenson


 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: rare_bear

some guys at our field put shims on the rear gear block to make the wheels sit further forward and therefore, assist in preventing nose-ins. when the gear retract, the wheels have a slight tilt to them so that's the drawback i guess - but nobody sees that anyways.




Now that is interesting. I got no further that 5 feet on the grass today at our club and it went over. I thought about doing something like that with the gear. I have RObarts on it. There is still plenty of in the wheel well for the wheels even if tilted. does it seem to help with the nose overs greatly?

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RE: ThunderTiger Rare Bear - 1/28/2007 2:08 AM   
babenson


 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Cyclic Hardover
I would not build one if it were given to me free.




yeah you would!



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RE: ThunderTiger Rare Bear - 1/28/2007 3:31 AM   
rare_bear



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Status: offline 		i can't say from experience because i have not had to do that (yet)

but the warbird guys swear by it.

they use like 1/8 inch ply expoxied to the rear rail.

it translates into about ~0.5 inch forward movement of the wheel if the strut is 4.75 inches long (retract base to wheel axle)

it translates into about ~0.75 inch forward movement of the wheel if the strut is 7 inches long


on grass, will it help - i wouldn't know. we have pavement.


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RE: ThunderTiger Rare Bear - 1/29/2007 5:37 AM   
Sessholvlaru



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Status: offline 		Well this thread got...interesting? Besides all of this recent nonsense, can someone give me a detailed description of how this thing flies when it IS set up correctly? How much run out room? How does it handle at high speeds? Landings? Etc. I love the way this aircraft looks and I have no issues doing the mods. This hobby is all about finding the right combination of assets for a successful flying machine. I can see why lots of people are frustrated after losing their Bears due to production problems and they are justified. However, for myself anyway, doing that extra work is actually fun and enjoyable. I love to build, so putting in that extra work is pleasurable. If it fails, then it does. I am overpowering it considerably (OS 160FX) so I accept that risk. Also, has the guy with the September Fury flown it yet? Although it is obvious that flight failure is a possibility I wish you all of the luck in the world. Happy flying!

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