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RE: ThunderTiger Rare Bear - 7/3/2012 4:17 PM   
SJN



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Status: offline 		congrats on the maiden :-)

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RE: ThunderTiger Rare Bear - 7/3/2012 5:37 PM   
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Status: offline 		Thanks. How are you doing on yours?

Forgot to mention raising the fuel tank in line with the carb is mandatory. The engine had NO signs of fuel starvation regardless of the maneuver.

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RE: ThunderTiger Rare Bear - 7/3/2012 6:26 PM   
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Status: offline 		I never raised my tank...I used the stock fuel system, and it worked fine...go figure



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RE: ThunderTiger Rare Bear - 7/3/2012 7:00 PM   
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Status: offline 		Where are you guys liking the c.g. on the Bear? I only got to fly my first Rare Bear once (lol) but the c.g. seemed ok stock.

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RE: ThunderTiger Rare Bear - 7/4/2012 4:33 AM   
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Status: offline 		As I posted mine is bang on the panel line at the aft of the L/G pocket.

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RE: ThunderTiger Rare Bear - 7/14/2012 7:57 PM   
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Status: offline 		Some bad news to report.

As I warned earlier my not digging into the wings much deeper had worried me there were gremlins lurking in the structure. That seems to be the case here as I had it up this morning for its second flight and about 5 minutes of gentle maneuvers with the gear up it came out to bite me.

Straight and level downwind and suddenly the plane started a strong roll to the right. Tried to fight it but the plane rolled over completely and started an inverted flat spin from over 100' into the beans. Was able to cut the throttle before it disappeared. My initial thought on radio failure was discounted since I had throttle control and the most common fault to plague this plane were of horizontal tail compromises.

Grabbed a garbage bag and we headed out, strongly suspecting we would be collecting lots of glass and balsa bits. Holy THEEITT! Plane looked mostly intact as I approached and I was shocked at how little damage was done. The cause was apparent right away in the right wing as the wing tube had broken loose and tore partially out of the bottom skin. It appears the doubled and much stronger root rib kept it hanging on long enough and the inverted spin contributed to it at least remaining partially in place. There are some scars to the gelcoat, the front battery box where the weight was installed came partially loose and some dirt is impacted into the battery cover and top of the tail, but all told the major bits were carried out intact. To top it off, considering it fell on its roof from that height the canopy and cockpit were unscathed, with the only evidence some paint chipped from the pilots helmet. It will get a much closer examination, but another surprise was the firewall/fuselage juncture appear completely intact. From reports this was a weak area.

On closer examination all the wood the tube was built into was seriously compromised, with several of the sub ribs coming off the spar cleanly. This will live to fly again, but those wings will definitely have the rest of the bottom skins removed and a lot better structure installed. Luckily I will be able to use the intact left wing as a pattern for both sets of new ribs. At this point I am debating installing a shorter and smaller diameter secondary tube further aft, but have to look closer into the fuselage to see if there is room for that.

Some repair and reinforcement of the smushed fuse is in order. The receiver will be replaced just for comfort.

All told that inverted flat spin was a hidden benefit. If the wing had failed even slightly more the story would be much different.

I was hoping to have it ready for at least static display for a major scale event next Saturday. That will not be in the cards for a while now. With radio failure in the Harvard II a few weeks ago, (suspected overheating) and the Fox Eagle IV 60 mounted in the F-15 suffering a burnt piston the same weekend I'm now down to only one plane for scale events. This has been a systems failure season for me. Rather unusual. Up till now I have not lost any craft at all for quite a few years and those were to, let's say, exuberant flying.

Unfortunately my memory card filled and my friend was returning it to the car as this occurred. It would have made for some interesting viewing.

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RE: ThunderTiger Rare Bear - 7/14/2012 8:29 PM   
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Status: offline 		bummer...its a shame the quality control and wooden materials of these planes are so bad for such a realy nice product.
I still have not finished mine .....yet.

I just orderd the CYmodel/Easytiger giant scale Bearcat for a 90cc ZDZ engine though


Hopefully at least one bear will be in the air this year

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RE: ThunderTiger Rare Bear - 7/16/2012 2:04 AM   
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Status: offline 		While paint was drying in the Harvard wheel wells, (did the same gear mount mod as on the Bear) I cut most of the lower skin away on the damaged wing. The amazing thing is that it flew at all and did not fold in on itself simply taxiing for takeoff. The ribs, including ALL the structure the tube was built into are soft balsa and not glued to the aft side of the shear web, and therefore the spar, at all. It was assembled like a cabinet with only the top half of the ribs fitting through notches in the soft balsa shear web and the only glue of any substance was to the balsa skins, (also relatively soft).

All I can say to that is, Thunder Tiger, you "NOT POLITICALLY CORRECT!" ****s. This was by far worse than I could have ever expected and before anyone takes one of these airborne I would strongly advise at least skin removal to have a boo. That lousy tail construction is a good example of what to expect inside the wing. I'm surprised no lawsuits have come from this dangerous a product.

Oh, by the way, I have no way to know how their thin walled F/G wing joiner tube would have held up, but the C/F survived in perfect shape. The wing insert tube has some damage to work on, but should at least form a start on new ones if necessary.

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RE: ThunderTiger Rare Bear - 7/16/2012 5:08 PM   
speed lover


 

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Status: offline 		Man yor lucky that your wing did'nt just fold up. Not alot of material there for the spar. Good that you got your fuse back though. I'd just cut the ribs out and build my own wing if that happened to me. Real shame they did'nt build this plane right at the factory I'd have one if they did.

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RE: ThunderTiger Rare Bear - 7/28/2012 10:12 PM   
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Status: offline 		Here is the product of a few days effort. I followed my common technique and sandwiched glass cloth between two thin layers of ply and allowed it to dry. The first two ribs from the root are 4 bids added and the outer is 8 bids added. The remainder of each sheet will be used to add doublers and gussets. along with a reinforcement to the root rib.

Ripping off the lower skin allowed me to get at the stock ribs and they were very easy to remove. I also opted to hack out the original shear web as the grain was aligned with the spars, (DOH!) and this also allowed me access to fit the new ribs directly to the spars and gear mount assembly. Removing the original tube sleeves was a bit of work to ensure they came out undamaged. Phew:rock:.

I also followed a plan that added a bit of extra work. Since the stock ribs were damaged and not to be trusted I repeatedly mounted the wing to the fuse, held it in place and slid the joiner tube in from the opposite side of the fuse. Once against the next rib in sequence I marked where the cutout had to go. Rib 2 was a bit of a mess and the doublers will cure that anyway. Once everything is in place there will be epoxy and flox added and the much tighter fitting doublers sandwiched against the ribs. Squeezing out any excess epoxy mix should ensure a good bond from the tube to the ribs.

Final fitting of the outer rib is the next step and once that is done I can start by adding balsa runners to the top and bottom of each rib to provide a greater bond area for the skins. Unfortunately I hopped over to the LHS this morning to find they were closed from this date for a weeks vacation!:yikes:.

Oh well, it's not like I don't have several other projects on the go. Hoping to put the first flight of the Harvard with the new retract installation tomorrow.

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RE: ThunderTiger Rare Bear - 7/28/2012 11:28 PM   
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Status: offline 		Looking good.
Glad you are rebuilding it.


Got my CYmodel/Easytiger Bearcat a few days ago.
Will go nice with a ZDZ 90cc engine on it.

Would also look nice in a Rare Bear scheme, and a chopped canopy

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RE: ThunderTiger Rare Bear - 7/29/2012 12:43 AM   
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Status: offline 		Wow, that's a biggun'.

Some white paint and decals would look really good there.

One thing I noticed on mine and will check on correcting was the nasty tendency to try and roll over on it's nose at the slightest opportunity. That tall gear and the recommended CofG just did not seem to work well together. I'll check on angling the gear legs forward a tad, but from the very docile flying habits on the two flights I think I can be comfortable moving that CofG slightly aft.

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RE: ThunderTiger Rare Bear - 7/29/2012 12:53 AM   
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Status: offline 		did you balance yours upside down at the fuselage panel line on the 2 flights ?

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RE: ThunderTiger Rare Bear - 7/29/2012 12:57 AM   
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Status: offline 		Yes. It was balanced at the line to the back of the fuselage wheel well.

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RE: ThunderTiger Rare Bear - 7/29/2012 5:19 PM   
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Status: offline 		SJN...I Love the Biggun!


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RE: ThunderTiger Rare Bear - 7/29/2012 5:35 PM   
SJN



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Status: offline 		see the whole F-8F thread here.....good vids there too

http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/m_8839134/mpage_17/key_/tm.htm

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RE: ThunderTiger Rare Bear - 7/29/2012 5:41 PM   
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Status: offline 		cool..thanx!


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RE: ThunderTiger Rare Bear - 8/4/2012 8:11 PM   
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Status: offline 		I finally had the chance to complete the ribs. Most of the time was taken with accurately measuring for the tube fit and as you can see from the one wing installation I think I have it right. There are also aligned holes in all the ribs to feed the gear and aileron extensions or fit a guide tube if I want.

I also added enough with the doubler to prevent the joiner from busting through if pushed too hard when the wings are installed. This was a constant problem with the original soft balsa rib and doubler.

There is a lot more skin to remove and fine tuning all the ribs and edges before fabbing new skins. Still have not firmed up the decision, but the area ahead of the wheel pockets will likely remain. The conformal curves were a pain to shape and bond on and with the additional structure I do not believe there will be any compromise. I also have to decide if the current bond for the ribs to the spars will be adequate or if additional structure will need to be added. The shear webs alone may be enough.

On that note the lower spar will get C/F tape before the skin is installed. As with the Harvard I want to ensure proper washout is maintained when the skins are applied and that will require fabbing fixtures or figuring out some method to fasten each to my Adjusto-Jig.

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RE: ThunderTiger Rare Bear - 8/4/2012 8:57 PM   
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Status: offline 		Looks like you have turned an ARF into a kit.

Good job on the mods.

Don

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RE: ThunderTiger Rare Bear - 8/11/2012 12:24 AM   
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Status: offline 		Here's the latest installment. Over the course of the week I was able to do the final fit checks on the ribs and tube and bonded them in. Key was getting the angles correct with no loading on the tube to prevent easy wing joiner movement. All told I must have fit and removed the ribs and tubes at least 30 times! As it stands both wings now fit tight to the fuse, not the case with the stock installation.

The shear webs to one bay outboard of the tubes were replaced with lite ply and the BVM C/F tapes are applied. The shorter rear tape is to distribute the load from the fastener bolt and along with tying the main ribs together will bond to the lower skins. I still have to reinforce the servo pocket on the remaining wing and do some cleanup, but they are nearly ready for reskinning. On that note, in the last pic you can see the wing root fixture that sets that at 0 degrees. I removed the tips to ease the skin process and the fixture for that end to set neg 2.5 degree incidence still has to be fabbed up. They both will be interchangeable so not so much work as what I had to do with the Harvard.

As you can see I rerouted the gear lead to come out the same location as the aileron extension. Hated trying to reach them once the wings were installed and this will also simplify assembly as I won't be worried about pinching those leads in two different locations.

Reluctant to do a failure test, but can feel pretty confident they are much, MUCH stronger than stock.

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RE: ThunderTiger Rare Bear - 8/15/2012 3:42 AM   
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Status: offline 		Still slugging away. One wing is now reskinned and waiting for the filler to dry before final sanding and bonding on the tip. Second wing has the skin bonded to the aft false spar from root to tip, the first step in the process. Next is to glue the skin from the main spar aft and wait for it to cure.

The reason for this is I can maintain a straight surface much easier and minimize sanding once its done. There is the inevitable bit on the rear bond and at the LE, but it contours out nice.

Once both are done it will be waiting for the LHS to notify me the new roll of UltraCote is in. I plan to follow my normal procedure and do each panel top and bottom in a single sheet. Hate overlaps at the LE where they can debond. The root cooler inlet areas may prove to be the killer here.

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RE: ThunderTiger Rare Bear - 8/25/2012 7:04 PM   
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Status: offline 		Oh, boy, wings are finally complete! Put the finishing touches on this morning by mounting the last servo tray and tightening down the wire ties inside to retain the wiring.

Along the way I made a few minor changes. The covering allowed me to fold over and bond to the ailerons, so there is a much better gap seal than before. Second was to trim the oil cooler inlets some more to make their installation into the wing less obviously an add on.

While things were curing I started the work on the fuselage. Other than the gelcoat the most visible was around the battery compartment. I had to fab some new bits and pieces to fill in the area above the part of the compartment that fit within the fuse. In the last pic that is the odd shaped curved section. I also added a better block for the top center cowl screw.

There were a few breaks in the side frames towards the aft end, likely from when the fuse flexed on impact. Nothing a few minutes and some lite play won't fix. The extra structures I added for the power distribution system were hardest hit and there will need to be rebuilding with the emphasis on better strength.

I found one I did not expect at all and was there from the beginning. Due to the throttle cable routing the carb arm extended out beyond the mount. There was enough flex in the mount that the throttle setting could be compromised and/or erratic. I could have done bracing on the side beams to stiffen them up, but a simpler method was to replace it with a stiffer version. The Dave Brown mount was the ticket, except for the fact it was slightly too short to give me the distance from the prop flange to firewall. Out came a block of Delrin and a few minutes had a spacer fabricated. I had to hog out a channel to allow for the fuel line to reach from the tank to filter, but since this is not structural there should be no problem. I did slightly carve out the mount beam to add a bit of spacing to the muffler. Not anywhere near as bad as the original. With hands my size it was a bit of fun to reach in now to install the blind nuts. This is when you wish you had the 3-year old so common in advertising. Currently the spacer and mount are installed and waiting for the epoxy for the upper battery compartment case to cure.

Pulling a lot out of the way for the mount installation gave me a better chance to have a boo at the structure and composite, but it also allowed some access to the area ahead of the wheel bays. Still, installing the ply doublers for the front dowels will be exceedingly difficult now. Cannot believe I passed the fact there was nothing but composite skin for the dowel to sit in during the build and admittedly is my own fault.



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RE: ThunderTiger Rare Bear - 8/28/2012 8:15 AM   
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RE: ThunderTiger Rare Bear - 9/10/2012 2:04 AM   
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Status: offline 		Except for marking and drilling the blocks for the front wing dowels the fuse is done. Reverse to the build sequence I started at the front and worked aft, with the aforementioned replacement and reinforcement of the battery tray and firewall. The Saito 125 is mounted and ready to fire up again. The ply side plates were relatively intact and only needed cleaning up where the tank retainer ripped away. Not surprising when figuring at least 12 oz fuel kept moving when it hit on the roof.

Next was the power distribution panel. Originally it was run from the side plates to some structure added behind the front cockpit opening bulkhead. Not the most elegant solution and also not the strongest. In place I ran ply from the side braces up to the bottom of that ring bulkhead, then added very lite ply facing to cover the joints and add strength. The new side plates then bonded to that facing. Much shorter structural elements that should be more than adequate.

While at that I got at some other issues I had from day one. All that wiring just happened to impinge in the joiner tube area, always getting in the way when the tube was inserted. I rerouted a lot of it and then added a wood dowel across to keep everything clear of the tube opening. The only real concern was to avoid any stress on any of the wiring, especially if leading to a connection or plug. There is a LOT of wiring in there! Still some rerouting to do as both retract and aileron plugs are to the back of the wing now and I will be replacing the receiver. Even though it tests fine I never like to trust one that had a bonk. It will likely be relegated to a much lighter and less costly model.

The cracks in the gelcoat were mostly cosmetic, but there was some signs of delamination in the glass. Most got a drop of thin CA and now have most of the flex removed. Cannot do anything about the looks at this point and will have to stay until I ever need to repaint.

The tail held up remarkably well. No signs of any structural damage and the horizontal stabs feel as rigid as ever.

Coming close to checking weight-and-balance again. Will be interesting to see if yanking the extra lead from the front of the battery compartment makes a difference. That was intended to only compensate for the lack of the cowl and would have been removed anyway.

I did tilt the main gear forward a touch. It does make the wheels look a bit wonky in the wells, but still below the surface so doors should not be a problem. Really hoping that will stop that nasty tendency to try and nose over at the slightest opportunity.

I'll have some pics tomorrow. I had to send my new camera back for warranty and the trusty Canon does not like low light as much.

Not directly related, but primarily for this plane, I am collecting all the bits to fab a PVC assembly and carrying stand. It will have seat belt webbing as supports so the plane can be flipped to any attitude. Should make installation and removal of the wings and/or working on the fuse a lot easier. The sizing will be fine for the Harvard, as well. The foam holder I have been using to date came with the Seawind, a completely different shaped fuse, (amphibian) and although way off served yeoman service up to now.

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RE: ThunderTiger Rare Bear - 9/10/2012 4:06 AM   
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Status: offline 		Just picked up on this thread, I have been flying my T.T. Rear Bear since this spring. I converted it to electric (didn't want to spoil John Penny autograph on the wing with glow fuel), powered with an E-flite Power 110, Castle HV85 Esc, 8 cells 5000mAh lipo and a small 1800 Life for the electronics, APC 18X10 propeller and the weight came out 12.5 lbs with batteries( I built the blue version powered with an OS 120 pump that weighted 13.5 lbs). I have been flying with an Aurora9 loaded with the telemetry, the level ground speed recorded is 120 miles/hr with the fastest recorded ground speed at 159 miles/hr. My wind are holding fine but had to rebuilt the section where the retractable gear mount due to poor wood quality and design. I fly mostly big gas warbirds but this Rear Bear is fun to fly!

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