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RE: F2G Corsair Build Sneak Peak!!! - 4/19/2004 6:32 PM   
FireBee



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Status: offline 		Luke, I sent you email, but it bounced.

I wanted to send you two pics of real flying F4U in my area and a cooler pic for F2G.
Please send me an email.

Mike

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RE: F2G Corsair Build Sneak Peak!!! - 4/20/2004 12:41 AM   
Glorystomper



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Status: offline 		Lukeh!

Finally got off my arse and sent you that Maru Mech like I promised oh so many weeks ago
Should be there in a few days.. hope you enjoy it!

Can't wait for this new bird of yours!

Cheers,

da Stompah

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RE: F2G Corsair Build Sneak Peak!!! - 4/20/2004 9:32 PM   
dionysusbacchus


 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Florian Kuehni

...so I'll make it look right, then it probably is right...

jsut a thought about the measurements: are these measures for the actual inlet area of the oil coolers as viewed from front?

Just another point which I believe is interesting: the bottom cowl flaps are shorter than the ones on the side...



Hi Flo, yes just make it look right! Until we can crawl on one with a tape measure I don't think we can do any better.

Yes on the inlet area, the corners are well rounded.

I noticed that too on the lower flaps, after I got those pictures!

Flo, I need a favor. Can you draw me up a retract arm for my tail wheel plans that won't take up so much room? With the cut down fuselage the original won't fit. Do you still have my plans for the tail wheel?

Thank you! Don't sweat it if you can't or don't want to...

quote:

I sent you email, but it bounced.

I wanted to send you two pics of real flying F4U in my area and a cooler pic for F2G.
Please send me an email.

Mike


OK Mike, those sound great, I'll send you my e-mail.


quote:

Finally got off my arse and sent you that Maru Mech like I promised oh so many weeks ago
Should be there in a few days.. hope you enjoy it!

Can't wait for this new bird of yours!

Cheers,

da Stompah


No rush dude, I told you I was paying for that too! All this talk about Super Corsairs got me inspired, so I'm excited to see how this one turns out too!

Got some updates on the fuselage, got my wood yesterday and immediately started drawing and cutting. All of the fuselage formers and things are 1/8" Lite Poplar Plywood. Things like the fiberglass cowl ring and tail retract mount formers are 3 Ply Birch Plywood. I decided to only use a few things from the kit, I didn't see any point in cutting up good F4U1-D formers. The only parts used from the original kit are: F-10 (last former in the tail), F-27 and F-27A (small parts that form the bottom of the fuselage just at the front of the wing).

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< Message edited by dionysusbacchus -- 4/20/2004 4:33:10 PM >

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RE: F2G Corsair Build Sneak Peak!!! - 4/20/2004 10:00 PM   
dionysusbacchus


 

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Status: offline 		Think I’ll add some detailed instructions for the wing. This is my method, surly many other ways of doing it are out there, this way works for me though and I can get the wing very straight.

I used most of the original parts for the 1-D wing on my F2G. First you have to make a right and left main spar. Glue them with epoxy; I used the plan as a reference to check alignment.

Next join the main spars with W-31 and the rear spar with W-32.

Draw the centerlines on all the ribs, this is important because it will help with there alignment. The whole wing can be put together without glue!

I drew a line on my workbench to line up the main spar; another line crosses that showing you where the center should be. Using rib W-5 as a reference you want to shim up the rear sub spar until W-5’s centerline is level with the table.

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RE: F2G Corsair Build Sneak Peak!!! - 4/20/2004 10:16 PM   
dionysusbacchus


 

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Status: offline 		Once you get the shims the right height glue the main spar to the table! That’s right, tack it to the table, making sure that both main spars are on the center line in the middle and that the main spar is right on the line going span wise.

I use four small blocks of pine to hold the outer spar tips in alignment. Glue these to the table and to the spar. Start at the center section and start gluing the ribs to the spars, checking that each one is level. This was before jig tabs people, but it’s a fun way to build a Corsair wing, it will really start feeling solid very quickly.

Next the pre cut W-16 wing sheeting can be installed. This is the only part of sheeting the wing that you have to pay strict attention; the trailing edge can be easily warped.

Next add the top sheeting. The ailerons will be cut out next and all the plumbing added.

More later!

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RE: F2G Corsair Build Sneak Peak!!! - 4/21/2004 3:40 AM   
dionysusbacchus


 

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Status: offline 		Decided to do the cowl, I can't decide if I should make a fiberglass mold so I can make more later? Or if I should just glass this thing and clean the foam out? If I damage the cowl having a mold would be nice. I just spun some foam on my drill press. I made the whole thing rounded as the bottom is, then I just went over the top where it's supposed to be flat with some sandpaper. The cowl flaps will be added later.
Go ahead and pick it apart, feedback good or bad is always helpful! Things like this are hard to carve and get perfect.

------------------------------------------------------------

Cowl is looking pretty good now. This foam sands so nice, all you need is some plywood on the back and protect the front cowl ring with some masking tape. Then with an aluminum sanding block it will sand out nice.

Fist is the side view, although not a perfect side view you can see that the top is flat and the bottom has the bow in it.

Next is top view, notice how the sides are flat.

In the last picture you can see the flat top and the bow in the bottom, also you can see the front cowl lip and it's shape.

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< Message edited by dionysusbacchus -- 4/24/2004 3:23:44 PM >

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RE: F2G Corsair Build Sneak Peak!!! - 4/21/2004 4:17 PM   
WarpdSpazm



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Status: offline 		Luke,

Your techniques are an inspiration for new to scale guys, like me. I never thought about using the drill press to get FOAM into a clow shape, or the glueing the wing to the board to get them straight and true. Really a pleasure to watch you build.

Hope you won't mind the questions when I get mine on the board... Just finishing up my extra first.


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RE: F2G Corsair Build Sneak Peak!!! - 4/21/2004 9:37 PM   
Florian Kuehni



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Status: offline 		I still have your plans, but I don't need them anymore....

nuff joked, here's what I will do soon. The actuator rod can be placed wherever it makes sense to you. The thing has a down lock which is done by a pin.
If you like it, I can send you CAD-data.

Flo

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RE: F2G Corsair Build Sneak Peak!!! - 4/21/2004 11:11 PM   
dionysusbacchus


 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: WarpdSpazm

I never thought about using the drill press to get FOAM into a clow shape...

Hope you won't mind the questions when I get mine on the board... Just finishing up my extra first.


Thanks Ray, glad you're enjoying this build, it is a tremendous help to watch others build that's for sure.

I even use a drill press to turn small aluminum parts!

Ask all you want Ray, always happy to help! Is that a Royal Corsair you have in the box? I can't remember.

quote:

here's what I will do soon. The actuator rod can be placed wherever it makes sense to you. The thing has a down lock which is done by a pin.
If you like it, I can send you CAD-data.

Flo


Do it over and then send me the CAD-data! I've seen that used before, so I know it works well. One question, will you be building a tail wheel like mine, out of PC board? If so then the attachment point will have to be on the top of the shock post, putting it where you have it will put to much strain on the PC board. Change that and let me see it, OK? Nice looking plans by the way, can't wait to see them! When will you be starting your build Flo? Enough of this planning stuff!



Dion

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RE: F2G Corsair Build Sneak Peak!!! - 4/21/2004 11:20 PM   
dionysusbacchus


 

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Status: offline 		Ted, you snuck that picture in on me, you were one of the first ones to start the F2G craze here on RCU! TF F2G threadFlo was the first I think, he's been working on his plans for over a year I think! Anyway keep up the good work and post pictures as you go, this will be an all F2G thread! Looks like you need to make the extra rudder, it will be 1 7/16" wide at 1/8 scale. Full scale it was 11.5 inches.

Dion


quote:

ORIGINAL: F2G-1

Great minds must think alike !
I'm in the middle of doing the same to my TF.
I've finished the tail feathers, and tonight i'm finishing the top half fuse. (I skipped the wing for now, because I couldnt wait to see how the mods looked, and no retracts yet.) I'll finish the wings before I finish the fuse bottom. I blew up a profile of the F2G and layed it over the plans, reworking only the parts needed. I'll post some pics later.
Good to here from you. BTW, how that other project?

Ted

Heres picture, i'm making new cowl, TF cowl in picture just to get idea of how its going to look.


< Message edited by dionysusbacchus -- 4/21/2004 6:24:43 PM >

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RE: F2G Corsair Build Sneak Peak!!! - 4/22/2004 2:36 PM   
WarpdSpazm



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quote:

ORIGINAL: dionysusbacchus


Thanks Ray, glad you're enjoying this build, it is a tremendous help to watch others build that's for sure.

I even use a drill press to turn small aluminum parts!

Ask all you want Ray, always happy to help! Is that a Royal Corsair you have in the box? I can't remember.


Dion


I wish it was the case, but no... I have the ::cough::Hangar::COUGHCOUGH::9::arf::coughcough.

I only have a 4'X2' work space in my kitchen. and only about 2 hours a week to work on an a/c OR go flying... I'm planning to change the scheme and add some flaps real gear with doors. Still debating whether to do it military or Cook Cleland's Race 92 FG1-D.... I WILL be doing a corsair Kit as soon as i move - So i figure this will be good practice for flying.


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RE: F2G Corsair Build Sneak Peak!!! - 4/22/2004 5:35 PM   
F2G-1



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Status: offline 		Dion,
Glad you like the pic. I added it to the original message, and I knew many would miss it!
Here's my idea on the cowl, in 3 stages. First, I'm going to spin a plug that reflects the bow in the bottom half of the scale cowl. Then, I'll spin a plug that reflects the top contour (pretty much straight) Last, I'll split both of the plugs horizontally, glue them together, then sand and blend the bottom half into the top half where they meet. When I look at scale drawings, I notice from the top view, the lines of the cowl sides are consistant and parallel, wich leads me to believe the 'bow' is confined to the bottom half of the cowl, meeting the top half contour at 3 o'clock and 9 o'cloc, giving the apearance of a uniform cylinder from the top view. Hopefully, this method will eliminate alot of carving, as I have exhausted most of my artistic-freehand-carving/shaping/sanding skills on that damn intake scoop! We shall see! BTW, what kind of foam have you been using?

The canopy on the pict is actually the front windscreen from the TF kit, mated to the rear half of a Great planes P-51 canopy. I cant believe how close to scale it looks! (after some head-scratching and trimming!) How are you planning on tackling the canopy?

Ted

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RE: F2G Corsair Build Sneak Peak!!! - 4/22/2004 7:26 PM   
dionysusbacchus


 

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quote:

I wish it was the case, but no... I have the ::cough::Hangar::COUGHCOUGH::9::arf::coughcough

I'm planning to change the scheme and add some flaps real gear with doors. Still debating whether to do it military or Cook Cleland's Race 92 FG1-D.... I WILL be doing a corsair Kit as soon as i move


Haha, nothing to be ashamed of, do what you can. Making modifications to an ARF Corsair will make it interesting, sounds like a good plan to me. What 'kit' did you have in mind? Lot's of stuff here on RCU to help you along when you do start to build, that's for sure.


quote:

Here's my idea on the cowl, in 3 stages. First, I'm going to spin a plug that reflects the bow in the bottom half of the scale cowl. Then, I'll spin a plug that reflects the top contour (pretty much straight) Last, I'll split both of the plugs horizontally, glue them together, then sand and blend the bottom half into the top half where they meet. When I look at scale drawings, I notice from the top view, the lines of the cowl sides are consistant and parallel, wich leads me to believe the 'bow' is confined to the bottom half of the cowl, meeting the top half contour at 3 o'clock and 9 o'cloc, giving the apearance of a uniform cylinder from the top view. Hopefully, this method will eliminate alot of carving,


Good plan Ted, I'm going to go with the "sanding for hours method" . I don't know if I can trust a 3 view, but looking at the pictures you are probably right, good observation! Definitely keep us posted on your progress. I'm using the 1" pink foam from Low's, I see that it is available in at least up to 2" but I couldn't find any. I use 3M spray adhesive to hold them together.

quote:

How are you planning on tackling the canopy?


I'm going to carve mine out of clay, then make a mold and the plug from that. I made a small vacuum-forming table and with a 6hp shop vac if I can get the plastic heated right I should be able to pull a decent canopy, I just hope I ordered enough plastic! I'll keep everyone posted on my trials. It should work ok.

Dion

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RE: F2G Corsair Scale Aileron hinging - 4/27/2004 7:07 PM   
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Status: offline 		Ok, something new to try, scale aileron hinging! I’m not talking about rounding the aileron leading edge and using some Robart hinge points, no I’m talking about scale hinging and scale actuation pushrods! Nothing is more of an eyesore to me than a servo arm sticking out of the bottom of the wing with a huge wire and control horn! Ok maybe seeing the entire servo sticking out of the bottom of the wing! Scale guys should not be using the 3D guys control setups. The full scale Corsair uses a bell crank out in the tip and so will mine. It will all be internal linkage just as the full scale one, won’t that be nice!

Ok, here is a picture of the full scale Corsair wing, look at those hinge points.

The wing will have to be temporarily removed from the jig for this. Mark out the bottom shape of the aileron and cut it out. The top gap will be filled with a 1/64 ply strip.

These are my hinges; all are different, so each one has to be drawn according to how thick the wing is.

I used Printed Circuit Board, Epoxy-Glass FR4 Board. Strong as nails, you’ll see when this stuff rips the teeth off of every new saw blade you have! I then drilled the holes for 1/16” spring steel pivot wire.

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RE: F2G Corsair Scale Aileron hinging - 4/27/2004 7:38 PM   
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Status: offline 		Next I cut back the aileron to cap it with balsa, so that I can sand the proper shape to it. Notice that I drew the line to far back on the tip, but I fixed that.

I used some balsa blocks for the hinge anchors. Just cut a notch that will give the hinges a snug fit. They sit right up against the top wing sheeting.

I used some yellow Gold-N-Rod for the aileron hinges. These butt up against the wing hinges to hold the aileron centered. Since the rod sits on the bottom aileron sheeting I had to dremel out a small area for the Gold-N-Rod to sit in. Later they will be covered with balsa to hold them in.

The bottom shows the partially exposed hinges. The full scale Corsair had small covers over the tops of these. I’ll cover the bell crank and pushrod set up later.

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RE: F2G Corsair Scale Aileron hinging - 4/28/2004 2:08 AM   
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Status: offline 		I drilled out a large Robart Hinge Point and trimmed it so it had one loop on the end. Using a metal clevis it is a no slop fit, perfect. I cut a wedge balsa block and installed it in the aileron next to the center hinge and drilled a hole for the half Hinge Point.

I installed the stock bell crank and installed the pushrod in the hole closest to the pivot. This is because it doesn’t take much movement to get full deflection on the aileron. It works so smooth, no binding or slop. If you look at the two pictures back and forth you can see the amount of movement. Now all I have to do is cap off the wing and aileron opening.

The last picture shows the finished aileron, all that is needed is the 1/64 ply to cover the gap. That will be done later after I cut the flaps and finish sheeting the wing.

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< Message edited by dionysusbacchus -- 4/28/2004 12:07:26 AM >

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RE: F2G Corsair Build Sneak Peak!!! - 4/28/2004 3:15 PM   
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Status: offline 		Dion. Those scale hinges look great with the offset arms. I've been using scale ailerons for awhile now,but with Robart hinges. Not too scale though. The use of the half arm for the pivot is a great idea. I'll be using your methods on my next project if you don't mind. You mention though that it does not take much movement to get full deflection of the ailerons. It's been my experience that a 1" fulcrum , cl of hinge line to cl of pivot line is about as short as I like to go. I usually try to set the pivot as close to the top skin or slightly through it to get what I need,maybe a little off scale though.Any shorter than that and you might end up getting flutter at some point . I think an aileron is more prone to flutter if the neutral area is not rigid?? I also noticed that the long push rod is pushing to deflect the aileron up. Looks that way in the picture?? I have found that setting the rod to pull the ailerons up also helps to eliminate flying slop. If the rod flexes in the down position all you get is less down aileron, less adverse yaw. I'm just mentioning this as a heads up as I've seen trouble with these setups in the past. I've been following your project and can't wait to see what other tricks you have up your sleeve. Good luck with your project and keep the pics coming. Jim G

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RE: F2G Corsair Build Sneak Peak!!! - 4/28/2004 4:16 PM   
dionysusbacchus


 

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quote:

Dion. Those scale hinges look great with the offset arms. I've been using scale ailerons for awhile now,but with Robart hinges. Not too scale though. The use of the half arm for the pivot is a great idea. I'll be using your methods on my next project if you don't mind.


Thanks for the feedback Jim, I was wondering if everyone was asleep out there! Robarts are ok but they can be a pain to get perfect. Haha, just ideas, use whatever you want!


quote:

You mention though that it does not take much movement to get full deflection of the ailerons. It's been my experience that a 1" fulcrum, cl of hinge line to cl of pivot line is about as short as I like to go.


I will admit that putting scale ailerons on such a small model makes the cl to cl line look small, but if your control set up is rigid enough the aileron can’t move without you moving the stick. High rate will need the ailerons to move ½” up and down, that means that the servo will only have to move the bell crank about ¼”.

quote:

I usually try to set the pivot as close to the top skin or slightly through it to get what I need, maybe a little off scale though. Any shorter than that and you might end up getting flutter at some point . I think an aileron is more prone to flutter if the neutral area is not rigid??


The pivot point is as full scale, at the top of the aileron, just under the sheeting. The cl for the hinges is at the bottom resting on the bottom wing skin. It depends on the thickness of the wing how far apart the cl’s for control and pivot are, but I think rigidity of your control hookups is the key. I don't agree that the ailerons are more prone to flutter in neutral, when an aileron is under tension pushing against the slipstream this is where a control setup with flex in it will cause problems. Flex in your controls and not play will more likely cause flutter. (does that make sense?) I have seen some sloppy control setups on ailerons, some I have even owned! My vintage TF P-51 that fist flew in 97 has well over 300 flight on it, and the aileron controls are showing some wear, they are very rigid but they have about 1/8” of slop in each aileron, never got any flutter. I got elevator flutter on an old TF P-51 when I was doing a loop at full throttle. When I started going down I was pulling on the elevator and it started to flutter badly, the flutter ripped the whole stab and elevator off! Flex in the pushrod was the cause, back pressure on the elevator at high speed caused it to flex and start to flutter. Any other opinions on this?


quote:

I also noticed that the long push rod is pushing to deflect the aileron up. Looks that way in the picture?? I have found that setting the rod to pull the ailerons up also helps to eliminate flying slop. If the rod flexes in the down position all you get is less down aileron, less adverse yaw.


No, it is pulling for up aileron, I know the pictures are bad. Believe me, the rod ain’t flexing! If it does my aileron will sheer off first!

quote:

I'm just mentioning this as a heads up as I've seen trouble with these setups in the past. I've been following your project and can't wait to see what other tricks you have up your sleeve. Good luck with your project and keep the pics coming. Jim G


Thanks buddy, and stay tuned!

Dion

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F2G Corsair Build-A-Thon - 4/28/2004 5:38 PM   
John Rood



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Status: offline 		Senyorr D-Bacchus,

Seeing that you've ventured now into yet more Beautiful Madness (this time it's those scale aileron Grabber-Mover-Thingies ), well, Luke, send me an email if you'd like an appropriate punishment...in the form of some aero-goodies that I am actually almost willing to carefully photocopy and send you; they are a few old and rather rare published items to do with misc "this n' that" on the sleek F2G Corsair.

These delicate items are archived in my moldy and very secret F2G Corsair Manila File Folder, which in turn resides in my dank and dark downstairs Aeronautical Den of Iniquity, but that's when they're not in reverential use upstairs here in the light of day.

"No pain, no gain" Sophokles (496-406 B.C.) <----- !!!



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RE: F2G Corsair Build-A-Thon - 4/28/2004 5:42 PM   
John Rood



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From: Boston, MA, USA
Status: offline 		Luke,

In case a link to my email address does not appear automatically, it is rood@verizon.net

John

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RE: F2G Corsair Build Sneak Peak!!! - 4/29/2004 6:02 PM   
Florian Kuehni



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Joined: 5/19/2003
Last Login: 8/16/2005
From: RohrbachBerne, SWITZERLAND
Status: offline 		Luke
looks good, as usual . I wouldn't worry too much about flutter. I make all my actuators with ball-links (the ones to screw on). No slop --> No flutter (fingers crossed )

Flo

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my harddeck is at 1ft below ground level

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RE: F2G Corsair Build Sneak Peak!!! - 4/29/2004 6:43 PM   
dionysusbacchus


 

Posts: 1549
Score: 100
Joined: 12/12/2002
Last Login: 10/22/2009
From: McQueeney, TX, USA
Status: offline 		Hi Flo, thanks buddy and glad you agree with my aileron set up! I want to move more to full scale aircraft methods because I think R/C aircraft builders are going down the wrong path with completely external control setups. My ailerons are removable and completely adjustable at the aileron and the servo, everything in the wing is permanent and maintenance free. Been bashing balsa all morning but won't have updates for a few days at least. I think I'm going to go fancy on the flaps, those are in the planning stages now.

I'm always glad when John pops in for a visit, and I can't wait for the info you have my friend, thanks again! Yes, no pain no gain!

Dion

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RE: F2G Corsair Build Sneak Peak!!! - 4/29/2004 10:59 PM   
kerrydel



Posts: 688
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Joined: 4/29/2003
Last Login: 7/27/2009
From: Dunlap, IL, USA
Status: offline 		Wow! I'm just amazed at the work I see on RCU. I'm struggling just to put a Top Flite kit together.

Keep up the good work. Even if it does make me green with envy.

Kerry

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"I''m learning to fly, but I ain''t got wings."

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RE: F2G Corsair Build Sneak Peak!!! - 4/29/2004 11:11 PM   
shupack



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Joined: 9/30/2002
Last Login: 4/23/2008
From: Omaha, NE, USA
Status: offline 		LUKE!!!! welcome back man, now I feel bad for not checking in more often, I havn't touched my bird since december....after reading this thread I want to start over....practice makes perfect I guess.

When you start selling "Perfect Scale" plans, I want the first set.

D

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Aoccdrnig to a Cmabrigde Uinervtisy sudty, it deosn't mttaer in waht oredr the ltteers in a wrod are, the olny iprmoetnt tih

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RE: F2G Corsair Build Sneak Peak!!! - 4/30/2004 8:02 PM   
dionysusbacchus


 

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From: McQueeney, TX, USA
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quote:

ORIGINAL: kerrydel

Wow! I'm just amazed at the work I see on RCU. I'm struggling just to put a Top Flite kit together.

Keep up the good work. Even if it does make me green with envy.

Kerry


Practice, practice and practice! You'll get it! Thanks for the compliments, they help me to work harder to entertain you guys! Glad you're enjoying my build.

quote:

LUKE!!!! welcome back man, now I feel bad for not checking in more often, I havn't touched my bird since december....after reading this thread I want to start over....practice makes perfect I guess.

When you start selling "Perfect Scale" plans, I want the first set.


Thanks for stopping by Shupack! Thank you for that warm welcome! I never said I'd be selling perfect scale plans! I have made a complete parts sheet for the 1/8 Corsair and the F2G conversion. Once I finish building the F2G prototype and make sure all the parts are correct then a friend of mine will scan them into his computer. This guys knows what he is doing, so I'm sure he will be able to scan enlarge then print them without distortion. I'm going to blow them up to a wing of 82", I will include my aileron and flap detail. If you want a set your welcome to a copy, just give me a little time on this one. Finish your plane, I'd really like to see it, very unique! You moved from England to Nebraska?

Still waiting for my good old buddy v6Goose to check in!

Dion

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