RE: F2G Corsair Build Sneak Peak!!!  
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RE: F2G Corsair Build Sneak Peak!!! - 6/6/2004 11:21:50 AM   
dionysusbacchus


 

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From: Blue Collar TV , ND, USA
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quote:

I love you, Lukeh! *mwah*


OK... But I was hoping you would sing me a song!

quote:

The small protruding leading edge of the upward moving aileron helps create a drag force on that side of the wing that assists the yaw affect on that side of the wing, making for a more efficient turn. The downward moving aileron on the opposite wing has the effect of increasing lift on that side, but it also increases drag--that drag increase can result in something called "adverse yaw", which is a force that would normally cause a plane to yaw AWAY from the intended direction of turn. The frise aileron affect counters this force, improving the handling of the plane.


f4you, that is absolutely brilliant! I wanted to take a guess at what aerodynamic forces were going on, but I'm glad I didn't! Thank you for your input.

quote:

In that type of aileron, you DON'T want any gap (or at least minimal gap) between the wing and aileron.


Looking at the Corsair aileron it looks like they meant to have air go through the gap. The gap is considerable and the leading edge and passage through the gap is very smooth. Only testing will resolve this I guess or maybe you could tell me why or can someone else tell me?

See the picture below of the Corsair aileron and gap:

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(in reply to Glorystomper)
       Post #: 101

RE: F2G Corsair Build Sneak Peak!!! - 6/6/2004 2:19:46 PM   
Rocketman612



Posts: 2065
Joined: 1/19/2002
From: Enterprise, AL, USA
Status: offline 		Luke,
Do you have any photo's of that Aileron taken from the top? I bet you don't see much if any gap as it looks like there is some overlap of the top sheeting past the TE much like we do it with 1/64 ply on our models. Found some photos of this in Detail& Scale pg 43



Glad to have you back with another good thread.

Pete

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(in reply to dionysusbacchus)
       Post #: 102

RE: F2G Corsair Build Sneak Peak!!! - 6/7/2004 12:17:41 AM   
hoonnz



Posts: 88
Joined: 10/24/2002
From: Christchurch, NEW ZEALAND
Status: offline 		Luke

This discussion has been worth it just for the new photos it has produced! Great stuff. I think I'll stay away from the Frise idea for my TF Corsair, but I'll watch how you and others get on 'cos I'm treating the TF as a learning exercise before I get into a 1/6th scale masterpiece. By then hopefully we'll know how good those ailerons work. I read somewhere that at low speed (landing) the drag stays high but the ailerons lose effectiveness so the yaw effect get's exagerated and pulls the model the opposite way to what the pilot intends. I guess though that the pilot should be using rudder then anyway.

Pete

Where did that page of photo's come from? Looks like a valuable reference book for us Corsair fanatics.

Happy landings
Brian

(in reply to dionysusbacchus)
       Post #: 103

RE: F2G Corsair Build Sneak Peak!!! - 6/7/2004 1:39:50 AM   
dionysusbacchus


 

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quote:

Do you have any photo's of that Aileron taken from the top? I bet you don't see much if any gap as it looks like there is some overlap of the top sheeting past the TE much like we do it with 1/64 ply on our models. Found some photos of this in Detail& Scale pg 43

Glad to have you back with another good thread.


Hi Pete, I've been looking at Corsair ailerons for a while now! Like I said in post #66, I'll close the gap with 1/64 ply after the flaps are cut and hinged. The gap I was talking about was at the bottom, mine are tight, much tighter than the full scale looking at the pictures. But with the gap filled at the top I guess it won't matter. I have the same book, it's a must have. The drawings suck but the pictures are very nice.

Thanks Pete, glad you like the F2G thread!

quote:

I read somewhere that at low speed (landing) the drag stays high but the ailerons lose effectiveness so the yaw effect get's exagerated and pulls the model the opposite way to what the pilot intends. I guess though that the pilot should be using rudder then anyway.


Hey Brian, Yes, if you use ailerons on your final landing approach then you are doing a bad, bad thing! I'm sure they will do fine though. I'm sure Vought would have done something different if they didn't work!

Dion

(in reply to Rocketman612)
       Post #: 104

RE: F2G Corsair Build Sneak Peak!!! - 6/7/2004 3:06:23 AM   
f4you



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From: Piqua, OH, USA
Status: offline 		ORIGINAL: dionysusbacchus

"Looking at the Corsair aileron it looks like they meant to have air go through the gap. The gap is considerable and the leading edge and passage through the gap is very smooth. Only testing will resolve this I guess or maybe you could tell me why or can someone else tell me?"

I see what you're looking at, now----the bottom surface of the wing has something like a "pocket" in front of the aileron leading edge--no "gap seal" there at all, and none required. However, if you look at the top of the wing along the aileron leading edge, it will have an overhanging "gap seal" that keeps air from spilling through between the wing and aileron leading edge. It is positioned so that as the aileron deflects, it's leading edge follows this seal nicely, keeping the gap minimal. If you close the gap on the upper surface with 1/64" ply, you'll be duplicating the full size ship very accurately. Should be an awesome scale feature to incorporate!! My next one will have it.

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       Post #: 105

RE: F2G Corsair Build Sneak Peak!!! - 6/7/2004 3:27:20 AM   
US185Damiani



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Joined: 3/29/2002
From: Danville, PA, USA
Status: offline 		Guys the Friese type aileron serves 2 functions.
firstly to reduce adverse yaw. As the up aileron goes up like was stated earlier, there is the lower portion which sticks out in the airstream to help counter the drag from the down aileron. the down aileron creates much more drag than lift. therefore the nose of the up aileron counters it. Also the "nose" of the up aileron acts as a type of spade to reduce the amount of control force necessary to actuate the controls. This nose is also where the balance weights are located on the full size airplanes. Friese type ailerons have considerably lighter stick forces than standard ailerons thereby helping to increase aileron effectiveness and lighten up roll control. this is why the corsair had such light and delightful ailerons. The Hellcat required spring or servo tabs to lighten the controls to the level of the Corsair.

(in reply to f4you)
       Post #: 106

RE: F2G Corsair Build Sneak Peak!!! - 6/7/2004 1:47:23 PM   
dionysusbacchus


 

Posts: 1549
Joined: 12/12/2002
From: Blue Collar TV , ND, USA
Status: offline 		Great, thanks for the input everyone, I really enjoyed it! I'll get back to building now! Keep us updated f4you on your "next one" I want to see what you do. I am sending off the parts and plans sheets to have them enlarged for a wing span of 82", I'm hoping I'll get them back in a week or so. Probably rush this F2G together because I need to start on the big one soon. The flaps are next...


Dion

(in reply to US185Damiani)
       Post #: 107

RE: F2G Corsair Build Sneak Peak!!! - 6/8/2004 1:07:39 AM   
Rocketman612



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From: Enterprise, AL, USA
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quote:

ORIGINAL: hoonnz

Pete

Where did that page of photo's come from? Looks like a valuable reference book for us Corsair fanatics.

Happy landings
Brian



Brian,
The reference book is:
F4U Corsair
Detail & Scale Vol 55
Author: Bert Kinzey
Squadron/Signal publication
ISBN 1-888974-08-7

Excellent photos and 5 view drawings. It's a keeper for bent wing nuts

Pete


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(in reply to hoonnz)
       Post #: 108

RE: F2G Corsair Build - 6/16/2004 6:51:12 PM   
dionysusbacchus


 

Posts: 1549
Joined: 12/12/2002
From: Blue Collar TV , ND, USA
Status: offline 		Thank you for that Pete.

Hi Corsair fans, well it’s been a little while so I thought I’d update a little. Not much work has been done but I was waiting to get a picture of the inner flap hinge among other things. I did decide to make the flaps as scale as I could go with them.

1. First I cut out the flaps and capped them off with balsa. The wing opening was covered with 3/32” balsa.

2. Next I marked a line on the flaps where the hinge pivot point would be. The hinge point will be on that line and 3/16” away from the flap.

3. Next I made the templates for the hinges. Here are the hinges for the outer most flap. I do not show the hinges with the slot in them for the inner flaps but they are basically the same. For the wing between the first and second flap I just used 1/16” ply. I cut all of my hinges out of PC board.

4. Here is a great shot of a hinge you never see! This is the hinge on the first flap next to the fuselage. The pivot point is in the belly pan; just one bolt holds it in!

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       Post #: 109

RE: F2G Corsair Build - 6/16/2004 6:54:48 PM   
dionysusbacchus


 

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From: Blue Collar TV , ND, USA
Status: offline 		1.Here is my rendition of that same hinge, it looks a little different but it works the same way, and you won’t see it anyway.

2.The wire is glued into a block in the flap ( the end of the wire is bent back toward the trailing edge to stabilize it and keep it from twisting) and into a piece of 1/8” ply, a small wheel collar holds the end.

3.Now you can see all the flaps hinged, notice the square flap hinge next to the aileron.

4.They work very smooth, I have to hold them in the up position or they will just drop all the way down as shown. The flaps will now have to be properly rounded at the leading edge and then the 1/64” ply will then be added over the leading edge of the flaps and ailerons.

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       Post #: 110

RE: F2G Corsair Build - 6/16/2004 6:57:24 PM   
dionysusbacchus


 

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From: Blue Collar TV , ND, USA
Status: offline 		1.The bottoms of the flaps leading edges will be rounded also and again 1/64” ply will be added to simulate the small doors in front of the flaps on the bottom. I could have made these work too but you have to stop sometime! Next project for sure!

see you's cats lata,

Dion

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       Post #: 111

RE: F2G Corsair Build - 6/17/2004 8:02:26 AM   
Florian Kuehni



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From: RohrbachBerne, SWITZERLAND
Status: offline 		No working doors?? C'mon

Looking good Luke, still watching with interest

Flo

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       Post #: 112

RE: F2G Corsair Build Sneak Peak!!! - 6/18/2004 8:39:58 AM   
hoonnz



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