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Home Owner's Insurance - 4/1/2004 2:09 PM   
Bruno Stachel



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Status: offline 		I've noticed home owner's insurance mentioned quite often here. It's always mentioned that it will kick in for certain situations. My question is, how many of you have notified your insurer about your hobby? Is it possible that a claim could be denied because your insurer wasn't aware of the activity? I've been relying on AMA for insurance. And I realize that many will say that should be enough. But, just in case, will my insurer also want to know about my hobby, so he can adjust my policy accordingly ($)?

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RE: Home Owner's Insurance - 4/1/2004 2:17 PM   
Mike Bogh



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Status: offline 		Homeowners insurance liability extends to the normal pursuit of your hobby.
Flying RC is considered normal.
Skydiving is not, (falling through a roof, for instance)
HO ins. is only good for property damage and bodily injury caused to others.
If your planes are stolen HO coverage will pay the loss, but make sure your deductibles are low.
This same coverage comes with renters insurance, also.
Renters costs about 10-15 dollars a month, depending on how much your stuff is worth.


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RE: Home Owner's Insurance - 4/1/2004 4:28 PM   
greenboot



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Status: offline 		I have used insurance on two occasions. Once when my homeowners paid about $100 for my liability. It was a strange accident where my plane injured the person standing next to me.

The second occurance involved my helicopter being damaged in a car accident. The other drivers liability paid for my damages.

To answer your question directly, I haven't notified my insurance agent about what I do.

Tom

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RE: Home Owner's Insurance - 4/1/2004 4:52 PM   
bbbair


 

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Status: offline 		Fire and theft are also covered.
In two separate incidents I have seen the Insurance cover the cost of replacement. At that point it's just another item in the basement that has to be replaced. After all you don't notify the Insurance Co that you have a camera, bandsaw or computer... until it is stolden or burned up in the house fire.

Now liability; that's another story altogether. I don't have any experiance here and I don't want any!!

Mayby someone else can help us out.

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RE: Home Owner's Insurance - 4/1/2004 5:00 PM   
scottrc



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Status: offline 		When I got my policy, my agent asked for pictures and a value decree for the planes and equipement. The same thing goes for collections.

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RE: Home Owner's Insurance - 4/1/2004 5:23 PM   
Ross Kean



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Status: offline 		As far as fire and theft are concerned, HO insurance should cover losses (within reason). As for fine art, expensive jewellery, high-end electronics etc, you should pay for a special insurance "rider" to include the cost for replacement of items with extraordinary value. I suspect that your insurance agent would be reluctant to replace a $10,000 turbine model plus ancillary equipment if they were not made aware of the item ahead of time. Liability is a separate issue which shouldn't relate to the value of your equipment. I can't say what the usual situation is but I would be sure to very carefully read the fine print in your policy before you assume that your coverage is sufficient.

Ross

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RE: Home Owner's Insurance - 4/1/2004 5:58 PM   
Blackie



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Status: offline 		I have questions about this as well. Help me to understand this.

I'll use this for an example.

Lets say I have no renters/home owners INS and I have an incident with a plane that requires medical attention at my fault. Now if I understand this correctly AMA is only a seconadary to primary INS.

If no Primary exist then how does this work. Will the AMA go ahead and kick in anyway? If that being the case is there fairness in this? I mean we all pay the same annual dues.

I'm sure this horse has been shoed many times but since we were on this subject I thought I would ask.

Thanks
Blackie


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RE: Home Owner's Insurance - 4/1/2004 7:08 PM   
greenboot



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Status: offline 		Blackie,
If you have no other coverage, then the AMA policy will go into effect. As a member, you would have $25,000 medical coverage if you get hurt or $2,500,000 for liability if you hurt someone else. Obviously, members are not as valuable.

Tom

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RE: Home Owner's Insurance - 4/1/2004 7:18 PM   
Blackie



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Status: offline 		OK thanks Tom, I would like to reiterate this then, where is the fairness? Why should I jeopardize an increase in my home coverage when Joe over there without INS has no worries.

By the way this is not aimed at you Tom just didn't see the fairness thats all. If that being the case it just seems we home owners that pay for INS seem to be getting the low end of the sick here.

Blackie


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RE: Home Owner's Insurance - 4/2/2004 3:50 AM   
smokingcrater


 

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quote:

OK thanks Tom, I would like to reiterate this then, where is the fairness? Why should I jeopardize an increase in my home coverage when Joe over there without INS has no worries.
By the way this is not aimed at you Tom just didn't see the fairness thats all. If that being the case it just seems we home owners that pay for INS seem to be getting the low end of the sick here.


homeowners insurance isn't the correct term, it is liability insurance. home ownership has nothing to do with it... (I have liab, and rent an apartment...) nothing is fair... first of all, AMA isn't supposed to be an insurance policy, that is ancillary to everything else you get.

I worked for an insurance company for 6 years. Liabililty rate increases or dropped coverage is very rare, and only for repeated events. (dog bites are the most common, we would tell the person to get rid of the dog or they would be dropped, after 2 bites) The most common reason for rate increases is for frequent small claims, they often amounted to less than many other policy holders single larger claims, but the increased number is much more expensive to handle internally. (a $200 claim costs the insurance company more to handle that internally than what you receive in compensation!)

pictures... only for property coverage, and very few companies if any would actually cover the plane if it is outside the home, and then not for all risk either at any time, only fire/theft... for any insurance keep an inventory with pictures just for your own personal knowledge, it makes it MUCH easier for everyone should a fire every occur.

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RE: Home Owner's Insurance - 4/2/2004 1:42 PM   
Bruno Stachel



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Status: offline 		rkramer, my wife and I have photographed and inventoried all our major furniture and appliances, including valuables. I should probably do that for my RC stuff too (in case of fire, theft, or disaster at home).

Thanks for the replies everyone. Very interesting.

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RE: Home Owner's Insurance - 4/2/2004 3:26 PM   
Blackie



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Status: offline 		Well bone head me, it just dawned on me, I had an RC related incident several years ago that required medical attention in which my work provided, personal medical insurance was used. AMA optioned to pay the deductible but was never approached on my part.

So in Reality any medical insurance would be your first line of defense, doesn't have to involve home, liability etc..

Blackie


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RE: Home Owner's Insurance - 4/2/2004 4:03 PM   
J_R


 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Blackie

I have questions about this as well. Help me to understand this.

I'll use this for an example.

Lets say I have no renters/home owners INS and I have an incident with a plane that requires medical attention at my fault. Now if I understand this correctly AMA is only a seconadary to primary INS.

If no Primary exist then how does this work. Will the AMA go ahead and kick in anyway? If that being the case is there fairness in this? I mean we all pay the same annual dues.

I'm sure this horse has been shoed many times but since we were on this subject I thought I would ask.

Thanks
Blackie

I was going to stay out of this, but, the main point of the AMA insurance has been missed.

First, the correct description of the AMA insurance is "in excess", not secondary. The coveage is in excess of any other insurance that may cover the claim. That's true whether it is the liability policy, the medical policy, or the fire and theft policy each AMA member has by being an AMA member. So far, this thread has focused on "what happens to me". The larger question is what happens if I hurt someone else, or my club is negligent in it's actions and, as a member, I am named in a lawsuit. The coverage protects me on the line, from the actions of others, regardless of who is flying or whether they have homeowners. As long as my club makes sure that everyone has an AMA memebeship, we (the club members) all know that everyone else has insurance protection.

The AMA liability policy is really three policies. One for the individual, that is in excess. One for the club, also in excess, but, since most clubs have no other insurance, is primary. The third and maybe the most important is the one for the landlord. It is primary, period. The landlord coverage is not subject to the exclusions embodied in the Safety Code as the individual and club policies are.

The landlord coverage makes many sites possible, and without it many sites simply would not exist.

These other coverages are subsidized by our dues. The cost to clubs barely covers the costs of the paperwork involved.

Since 50% of the claims handled by the AMA are of the "trip and fall" variety, as opposed to flying type accidents, maybe you can see why we all benefit from the coverage, even though homeowners stands primary for many of us.

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RE: Home Owner's Insurance - 4/3/2004 3:22 AM   
greenboot



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quote:

OK thanks Tom, I would like to reiterate this then, where is the fairness? Why should I jeopardize an increase in my home coverage when Joe over there without INS has no worries.


Blackie,

Haven't you figured out that things are not always fair? Members that fly only once per year pay the same as guys that fly every day. Is that fair. If I mail a letter to my neighbor it costs the same 37 cents as if I mail it to Hawaii. Is that fair? Get my point?

Tom

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RE: Home Owner's Insurance - 4/4/2004 12:41 AM   
Blackie



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Status: offline 		Yes Greeboot point taken. Theres a flip side as well, Members can fly more, walking the letter saves the money and last, not letting on that you have a primary INS. Get my point.

Blackie


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RE: Home Owner's Insurance - 4/4/2004 2:26 AM   
J_R


 

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Status: offline 		That is fraud... and the kind you DO go to jail for.

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RE: Home Owner's Insurance - 4/4/2004 4:05 AM   
Blackie



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Status: offline 		J_R I believe thats a bit naive and harsh on your behalf. You see it your way and I'll see it mine.


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RE: Home Owner's Insurance - 4/4/2004 9:53 AM   
Mike Bogh



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quote:

ORIGINAL: Blackie

J_R I believe thats a bit naive and harsh on your behalf. You see it your way and I'll see it mine.



OK blackie, here's a real life tip for ya...Integrity isn't naive. Insurance fraud is against the law, period.
What JR stated is a fact, it's against the law to be double insured for the same loss. The purpose of insurance is to restore you to your status before your loss.
It is not designed to profit from your loss.
It is comments like yours and the attitudes that people like you portray that cause John Q Citizen's premiums to increase, every year.
I see it all the time...got your stereo stolen..just so happened to have a 3000 watt amp and $1000 Bose speakers, eh?
350 Cd's too, right? Can't provide any receipts or proof tho..what a shame.
Give me a break, since when is having character, morals and integrity naive?
Thank you blackie for letting the world "see it your way"
Now we know beyond a reasonable doubt that you can't be trusted, by your own words, and then have the pompous audacity to put a smiley there to "get your point".
I take fraud seriously, it's a criminal act.


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RE: Home Owner's Insurance - 4/4/2004 3:45 PM   
J_R


 

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Status: offline 		Fraud is normally very difficult to prove. It requires proof that there is intent to defraud.

As an example, it is fraud to intentionally write a check without sufficient funds. In order to prove the fraud, it's necessary to show that it was not a simple mistake. A pattern of writting several bad checks might show a jury that intent, and it might not.

On the other hand, the best attorney in the world will have a very difficult time showing that you forgot you owned a home and that it was insured. It's a lay down case.

If it's worth that kind of risk to you, have at it.

< Message edited by J_R -- 4/4/2004 10:46:25 AM >

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RE: Home Owner's Insurance - 4/4/2004 4:40 PM   
crownvic



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Status: offline 		Its the same old morality issue


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RE: Home Owner's Insurance - 4/4/2004 5:05 PM   
Blackie



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quote:

ORIGINAL: BackAfter30

quote:

ORIGINAL: Blackie

J_R I believe thats a bit naive and harsh on your behalf. You see it your way and I'll see it mine.



OK blackie, here's a real life tip for ya...Integrity isn't naive. Insurance fraud is against the law, period.
What JR stated is a fact, it's against the law to be double insured for the same loss. The purpose of insurance is to restore you to your status before your loss.
It is not designed to profit from your loss.
It is comments like yours and the attitudes that people like you portray that cause John Q Citizen's premiums to increase, every year.
I see it all the time...got your stereo stolen..just so happened to have a 3000 watt amp and $1000 Bose speakers, eh?
350 Cd's too, right? Can't provide any receipts or proof tho..what a shame.
Give me a break, since when is having character, morals and integrity naive?
Thank you blackie for letting the world "see it your way"
Now we know beyond a reasonable doubt that you can't be trusted, by your own words, and then have the pompous audacity to put a smiley there to "get your point".
I take fraud seriously, it's a criminal act.


Who the fu*k said anything about fraud, I pay for my coverage, If I'm hurt or if I hurt others, I'm covered. I went back and re-read my post and geee, darn I just can't seem to find where I stated I was going to use a duel coverage for the same injury. Before you accuse me or put words in my mouth you best get your facts straight. Next thing I tried to find is where I stated that I was gonig to try and profit, hmmm!!! again I just can't seem to find that statement either. Backafter90 are you sure your reading the correct post perhaps glasses might help.

Now that you have insulted my character, I'll have you know that I'm the last person that you have to worry about causing your rates to increase. Get your facts straight before opening your mouth.

< Message edited by Blackie -- 4/4/2004 12:32:03 PM >


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RE: Home Owner's Insurance - 4/4/2004 5:12 PM   
Blackie



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Status: offline 		"not letting on that you have a primary INS"

This seems have been taken out of context it was not my entention to use a double coverage, but to only use either...or.

Edit in

And only for medical coverage only!!! no pain and suffering, no intent, accidents do happen.

< Message edited by Blackie -- 4/4/2004 12:26:03 PM >


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RE: Home Owner's Insurance - 4/4/2004 5:49 PM   
Blackie



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Status: offline 		After more thought I would like to include this. I should have the free Will to choose which of any "one" insurance company I want to cover my medical expencies, be it my work provided medical, home or any other that I might be a participant with.

Please tell me how this is fraud?


Blackie


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RE: Home Owner's Insurance - 4/4/2004 5:54 PM   
J_R


 

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Status: offline 		All of the AMA coverages are "in excess". That means that any other coverage MUST be used first. Somewhere along the way a claimant will have to certify there is no other coverage, and that is where the potential for fraud comes in. "not letting on that you have a primary INS" is not an opition.

As for the medical coverage, there is now a $750 deductible, which might or might not be of consequence.

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RE: Home Owner's Insurance - 4/4/2004 6:00 PM   
J_R


 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Blackie

After more thought I would like to include this. I should have the free Will to choose which of any "one" insurance company I want to cover my medical expencies, be it my work provided medical, home or any other that I might be a participant with.

Please tell me how this is fraud?


Blackie

The isured is NOT entitled to chose which coverage he prefers. There are laws that control who pays how much if more than one policy is in force for the same risk. If, for instance, you have medical insurance through your company, and have another policy covering the same risk (both primay and neither "in excess" ), they will share in the claim, under the terms of each policy. Although your intent is not to profit, others, in the past, have. That is the reason these laws and policy languages exist.

< Message edited by J_R -- 4/4/2004 1:01:40 PM >

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