RE: Lou Andrews aeromaster bipe ..Any info ?? (Full Version)

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CrateCruncher -> RE: Lou Andrews aeromaster bipe ..Any info ?? (3/5/2007 7:10:46 AM)

Hi everyone! Great thread, love the historical perspective on this classic that I'm currently building. I have the GP version with bolt on wings and the instructions call out neg 1 deg incidence top wing and zero for bottom. Is this the setup Ernie and Lou were using back in the day? I plan to have a ST 61 and a fiberglass cowl with Waco blisters. Pics to follow. Mike.



Ralph White -> RE: Lou Andrews aeromaster bipe ..Any info ?? (3/5/2007 10:35:11 PM)

I am considering powering my Aeromaster with an 4-cycle opposed twin. Has anyone here done this. I don't know anything about 4-cycles as they were just starting when I quit flying 25 years ago. Any engine recommendations would be greatly appreciated.
Ralph White, Neoga, IL



mcmike -> RE: Lou Andrews aeromaster bipe ..Any info ?? (3/6/2007 12:04:40 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: ralphwhite

I am considering powering my Aeromaster with an 4-cycle opposed twin. Has anyone here done this. I don't know anything about 4-cycles as they were just starting when I quit flying 25 years ago. Any engine recommendations would be greatly appreciated.
Ralph White, Neoga, IL


I know I thought about the same thing a few years back, right after the Saito 90 twin came out. Lined up really nice on the plans, but the problem lies in their weight. They're quite a bit heavier than a single cylinder of the same displacement from what I remember. I've flown mine with both 90's and 100's singles. You can't go wrong with those engines. I

mcmike



Ralph White -> RE: Lou Andrews aeromaster bipe ..Any info ?? (3/6/2007 12:33:19 AM)

Thanks for the input mcmike, After looking at the twin Saito's I was suprised at their wieght (and costs). Looks like a single would make a lot more sense.
I believe you replied about the stab incidence on the Aeromaster. Since those posts I have purchased another used Aeromaster (ready to cover). The plans came with the 2nd one and I have discovered that the Andrews Aeromaster has a small amount of incidence in the stab. Looks like about 1/16" or about 1 degree. I didn't measure it exactly, but the fuselage sides have it cut into them in the kit.
Thanks again,
Ralph White, Neoga, IL



CrateCruncher -> RE: Lou Andrews aeromaster bipe ..Any info ?? (3/6/2007 7:54:27 PM)

Here are some pics of my GP Super Aeromaster ready for covering:



CrateCruncher -> RE: Lou Andrews aeromaster bipe ..Any info ?? (3/6/2007 8:11:27 PM)

I built this one with both wings swept and no dihedral. Ailerons are on lower wing only but I may go back and add some to the top if the roll rate is too sluggish. A review of my plans and build instructions recommends neg 1 deg of incidence top wing and o deg incidence lower. The stabilizer has 1/8" positive incidence (or pos 1.2 deg) precut into the fuselage sides. I've decided to build it that way and have faith for now. Time will tell. I'm using a new Supertigre 61 mounted at 6:00 with an in-cowl Top-flite muffler so everything but the glowplug and mixture needle will be inside the hidden. Yes 4-strokes are very popular but when you look at the numbers the little 2-strokes have better performance, less weight cost etc. I weighed everything this morning and I have 5.25 pounds without radio/covering/fuel so a bit over 6 pounds flying weight seems reasonable. Mike.



mcmike -> RE: Lou Andrews aeromaster bipe ..Any info ?? (3/6/2007 8:37:25 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: CrateCruncher

I built this one with both wings swept and no dihedral. Ailerons are on lower wing only but I may go back and add some to the top if the roll rate is too sluggish. A review of my plans and build instructions recommends neg 1 deg of incidence top wing and o deg incidence lower. The stabilizer has 1/8" positive incidence (or pos 1.2 deg) precut into the fuselage sides. I've decided to build it that way and have faith for now. Time will tell. I'm using a new Supertigre 61 mounted at 6:00 with an in-cowl Top-flite muffler so everything but the glowplug and mixture needle will be inside the hidden. Yes 4-strokes are very popular but when you look at the numbers the little 2-strokes have better performance, less weight cost etc. I weighed everything this morning and I have 5.25 pounds without radio/covering/fuel so a bit over 6 pounds flying weight seems reasonable. Mike.


thats a good weight for these things! you'll definately want the 1 degree negative in the upper wing, they 'groove' much better like that. the roll rate won't be as quick as a 4 aileron pitts, but it's adequate. Just make sure you seal the aileron gap and I think you'll find it works just fine. With the .60 in it, you won't be pulling unlimited vertical (but it may be close), so fly it on the wing not the prop. It's a great aerobat doing 'old school' manuvers without a problem! I still think they're one of the best aerobatic bipes out there but not much of a 3-d bird...




CrateCruncher -> RE: Lou Andrews aeromaster bipe ..Any info ?? (3/7/2007 4:16:11 PM)

MCMIKE,
In post #35 you mentioned the Great Planes Aeromaster didn't seem to fly as well as the original Aamco version. I think it may be because the bolt-on upper wing is more complicated and difficult to set. Those hardwood blocks that are mounted flush with the center sheeting are the culprit. My plane was set with a laser incidence meter and box level. If I had just glued everything together by eye (like I used to do) instead of neg 1, the upper wing would have come out with 2.5 degrees POSITIVE! The aft block on my plane stood above the sheeting by 1/16" and the forward block was below by as much. It took some confidence to epoxy that - it just didn't look right! Andrews original design allows the entire upper wing to simply rest on top of a platform with rubber bands "giving the average builder a reasonable chance at the correct incidence" according to PD1.

Harry Higley's book "Bipes" discusses a creative method of building the GP Aeromaster that preserves the fuselage horizontal reference lines until the wings and stabilizer are set by postponing the bulkhead construction until well into the build. I highly recommend this book to any biplane builder, especially an Aeromaster.



mcmike -> RE: Lou Andrews aeromaster bipe ..Any info ?? (3/7/2007 4:44:17 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: CrateCruncher

MCMIKE,
In post #35 you mentioned the Great Planes Aeromaster didn't seem to fly as well as the original Aamco version. I think it may be because the bolt-on upper wing is more complicated and difficult to set. Those hardwood blocks that are mounted flush with the center sheeting are the culprit. My plane was set with a laser incidence meter and box level. If I had just glued everything together by eye (like I used to do) instead of neg 1, the upper wing would have come out with 2.5 degrees POSITIVE! The aft block on my plane stood above the sheeting by 1/16" and the forward block was below by as much. It took some confidence to epoxy that - it just didn't look right! Andrews original design allows the entire upper wing to simply rest on top of a platform with rubber bands "giving the average builder a reasonable chance at the correct incidence" according to PD1.

Harry Higley's book "Bipes" discusses a creative method of building the GP Aeromaster that preserves the fuselage horizontal reference lines until the wings and stabilizer are set by postponing the bulkhead construction until well into the build. I highly recommend this book to any biplane builder, especially an Aeromaster.


yep.. you got your finger dead on the problem! I finally wound up changing out the strut attachments to a different method, using an electrical "lug" connector that would accept a 1/4" nylon bolt, soldered to the cut off struts for the upper wing. After messing around with a jig to hold the upper wing in the correct position, marking the struts, remove the wing, and finally soldering the lugs to the struts, I got pretty close, but still have a couple of 1/8" thick plywood washer shims under the rear supports to hold the upper wing at the negative 1 degree. That seems to have fixed the problem and she now flies very much like the original version. Hey, some of us still had to shim things like wings even with rubber band attachments! [:D] Whatever it takes to get 'em flying right!



Bob Yeager -> RE: Lou Andrews aeromaster bipe ..Any info ?? (3/8/2007 1:21:06 PM)

quote:

Harry Higley's book "Bipes" discusses a creative method of building the GP Aeromaster that preserves the fuselage horizontal reference lines until the wings and stabilizer are set by postponing the bulkhead construction until well into the build. I highly recommend this book to any biplane builder, especially an Aeromaster.


Just in case anyone is interested, I happened to be in Don's Hobby Shop in Greeley, CO about a month ago. There were at least two copies of this long out of print reference gathering dust on a back shelf. [;)]



Ralph White -> RE: Lou Andrews aeromaster bipe ..Any info ?? (3/8/2007 3:55:38 PM)

CrateCruncher and mc mike, Thanks for the great info about the wing incidence and the stab incidence. Maybe I'll get them correct on these 2 aeromasters I bought and now rebuilding.
Ralph White, Neoga, IL



mcmike -> RE: Lou Andrews aeromaster bipe ..Any info ?? (3/8/2007 4:12:04 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: ralphwhite

CrateCruncher and mc mike, Thanks for the great info about the wing incidence and the stab incidence. Maybe I'll get them correct on these 2 aeromasters I bought and now rebuilding.
Ralph White, Neoga, IL


Hey Ralph, If you can get 'em done by this June, Bring them up to Pekin to our club field www.pekinrc.com. We're having our annual "Open House / Fly-in" sometime in June. It's not on the schedule yet, should have more information soon. I'm sort of the Bipe fanatic at the club (only got 5 of 'em) and would love to see more bipes!

mcmike



Ralph White -> RE: Lou Andrews aeromaster bipe ..Any info ?? (3/8/2007 7:42:00 PM)

mcmike,
I hope I get at least one of them done before June. Keep me posted on the date for the Fly-in, I may be able to get up there.
Ralph White, Neoga, IL

I tried to go to the Picker RC site, but the address in your post does not work. Ralph

Got to the site thru Google. That's a real nice web site. Looks like you have a great flying field. Ralph



HighPlains -> RE: Lou Andrews aeromaster bipe ..Any info ?? (6/1/2007 3:39:52 AM)

OK, it's nearly June. How is the Aeromaster project?



CrateCruncher -> RE: Lou Andrews aeromaster bipe ..Any info ?? (6/1/2007 4:57:44 PM)

My Aeromaster now has a customized muffler but still waiting to be covered and painted. My new do-it-yourself underground sprinkler system took priority this spring but I hope to have the plane finished this month. I'll post progress here as I'm sure it will help me focus!



Ralph White -> RE: Lou Andrews aeromaster bipe ..Any info ?? (6/1/2007 11:36:26 PM)

In a previous post I mentioned I had purchased a 2nd used Aeromaster ready to cover. WHAT A JOKE. I have had to almost completely rebuilt it. I could and should have purchased the Lazer kit that is available and built it faster. All the glue joints were letting go because of age. About half the wing sheeting was so soft it was not usable. I removed most of the sheeting and replaced it with good sheeting. Had to rebuild the wing tips, remove and re-mount the fin and stab, rebuild the nose blocks. I'm now building new ailerons. Buying these two used Aeromasters may have cured me of buying planes at auctions.
The good news. It is almost ready to cover now. Plan on monokote with the classic white with red and blue sunbrust on wing and stab. White stars in the blue stripe. Checkerboard on bottom of lower wing and rudder. Planning on using a Supertigre .60 bluehead that I had in my Fliteglas P-51.
The great news is I just received by new AMA membership and was able to get the same number I had over 25 years ago 5646. I originally got the number when I was in highschool in about 1956.



CrateCruncher -> RE: Lou Andrews aeromaster bipe ..Any info ?? (6/2/2007 6:48:21 PM)

Ralph,
How bout a picture of your restoration? I like that story about your AMA no.



PlaneKrazee -> RE: Lou Andrews aeromaster bipe ..Any info ?? (6/19/2007 10:06:17 AM)

[:D]



Ralph White -> RE: Lou Andrews aeromaster bipe ..Any info ?? (8/2/2007 5:43:49 AM)

Today I bought another Aeromaster. This one is an Andrews kit that was built about 25 years ago. It's been hanging in a hobby shop for several years. It appears to be in good enought shape to fly after a little work like new push rods, checking glue joints, installing radio and engine, etc. The original owner is an excellent builder and is still living in my area. He never was able to do a lot of flying so I hope to get him out to see this one fly again. The silk covering is in fair shape so I don't plan to recover it right now. I found out on my other Aeromasters that leads to a lot of other work. I plan to get this one flying as soon as possible and then complete the other one I have ready to cover. This will give me something to fly now. This gives me 3 Aeromasters. I just couldn't pass this last one up for the price he was asking. I'll post a picture in a day or two.
Ralph White, Neoga, IL



nxtdoor -> RE: Lou Andrews aeromaster bipe ..Any info ?? (8/4/2007 1:47:09 AM)

Ralph, are the you the Ralph White who kitted the Fliteglass models? If so, my dad Joe Naber use to fly one of your P51's in scale events through out the Midwest for a while. That was a great flying plane.

I have a new in box Aeromaster Too ready to be built this winter. Even went so far as to find a new in the box ST 60 Bluehead PDP that we used in our first one back in the 70's. it will be a fun build. The Aeromaster is a great kit.

Jeff Naber



Ralph White -> RE: Lou Andrews aeromaster bipe ..Any info ?? (8/4/2007 5:28:03 PM)

Jeff, Yes that's me. I remember your dad well. Is your dad still flying? I've been out of flying since the early 80's and just now getting back into it. A lot has changed, but a lot has stayed the same. As you can tell from this thread, I have aquired 3 used aeromasters. I've been restoring one of them since May. I could have built a kit faster. Just got the 3rd one and plan to fly it without restoring it. Just a few repairs from old age. Check out my profile for pictures etc. I'm going to post a picture of the last aeromaster I bought in this thread. I'm also using aSupertigre 60 Bluehead in my aeromaster when I get it going. I need to find a place to get parts for the Bluehead (rings, bearings, etc.). Enjoyed hearing from you.
Ralph White, Neoga, IL



nxtdoor -> RE: Lou Andrews aeromaster bipe ..Any info ?? (8/4/2007 7:34:51 PM)

Ralph, no dad is not flying planes anymore on a regular basis. He retired to Florida and took up competitive R/C sailboat racing! Golf too of course.

I got both my Aeromaster kit and the Bluehead off Ebay. Only place I have been able to find this old stuff. I have been amassing kits and engines of a lot of the old planes we used to fly. Doing the 35% stuff also and electrics.

I keep looking for one of your P51 kits. I can wait a while though. got lots of old stuff ahead of it.

Good to see your still around. I really enjoyed watching you fly that P51.

Jeff



crashinator -> RE: Lou Andrews aeromaster bipe ..Any info ?? (8/28/2007 3:11:14 PM)

Hu guys! Im new to this forum.
My uncle has an original aeromaster and is always buying, selling ect. this past spring he bought about 16 vintage kits of various planes and one of them was a brand new still in the box lou andrews aeromaster "too". I plan on building it this winter and was looking for input on techniques, tricks, ect. this wiil be my first bipe build and im a little nervous about wing alignment ect.
which wing configuration would be the most aerobatic on this model?
also, the prints have never been un-folded and i will make copies if anyone is interested.

Thanks, Troy from Maine



(I hope this thread isnt too dead!!)



mcmike -> RE: Lou Andrews aeromaster bipe ..Any info ?? (8/28/2007 5:35:53 PM)

an aeromaster thread is Never 'too dead'! you gotta remember, this thing was designed back in the 60's, so don't expect Ultimate like aerobatic performance. Think more like big loud stearman type airshow aerobatics. With that said, I've built many of these, and always come back to the long swept upper wing, and the short straight lower wing as my favorite configuration. I know a lot of guys build ailerons into the upper wings, but they'll roll just fine with them only on the lower wing, and snaps are a blast! Big thing is keep it as light as possible! Get about -1 degree incidence in the upper wing with the lower at 0 degrees. The right and down thrust on the old Aamco model are right on the money usually. BTW, my favorite thing about this bird... stuff a K&B 60 in it, with a 12/4 or 12/5 prop, and you've got just the right amount of power. Not unlimited vertical, but more than enough to have fun with! Gotta fly this one on the wing, not the prop.

Good luck, and enjoy!



HighPlains -> RE: Lou Andrews aeromaster bipe ..Any info ?? (8/28/2007 11:00:11 PM)

Only problem with the ultimate (good marketing decision in the name BTW), is that they are just too damn ugly. Not too many of the full size ever built either. Could it be that it was just too ugly?

Just one guy's opinion.



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