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RE: "New" Lil Toni by Great Planes - 6/15/2004 4:55 AM   
red_z06



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From: Dumont, NJ, USA
Status: offline 		Adrian:

My spinner is of the same kind ( spinner adapter and long screw ). I'm not sure if they ever shipped inner frame type at all as I took the delivery of the very first batch. If I can't fit the bcm ultimate, I might switch to saito 100 as well.

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RE: "New" Lil Toni by Great Planes - 6/15/2004 7:46 PM   
MormonMike


 

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Status: offline 		I was having a good time flying my Toni at a fly-in till a fellow came up to me and bought it out from under me. Just could'nt turn down the offer. Oh Well, guess i"ll just have to call up Tower again. Has anyone thought of taking out some of that dihedral in the wing? Is all of it that needed ? The real Toni from what I see in photos did'nt have any. Whats your thoughts ? MM

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RE: "New" Lil Toni by Great Planes - 6/15/2004 8:44 PM   
AdrianM


 

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Status: offline 		Re: Dihedral - Its a newly designed plane. GP is usually pretty solid in its aerodynamic design. The trim test for dihedral is knife edge flight. If it has roll coupling in knife edge flight then the dihedral is too much. Then again this is a pylon planes not a pattern ship. I'm sure that its dihedral contributes to its stability. Keep in mind that ALL low wing planes need some dihedral, properly designed mid wing planes need none and top wing planes should have anhedral (but no one does this) to achieve neutral roll stability.


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RE: "New" Lil Toni by Great Planes - 6/19/2004 7:13 AM   
pdansalvish



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Status: offline 		I maiden my Little Toni yesterday. Plane flies good, turns on a dime and lands like a **** cat. I running OS 91FS and fly it mostly at 1/2 throttle. But, I'm having on little problem. The plane rolls like fish out of water. I checked my balance and it is on the money. My throws are set to the recommend amount. Got any suggestion to improve the roll so it doesn't flop around.

Thanks
Dave

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RE: "New" Lil Toni by Great Planes - 6/19/2004 9:08 PM   
wldcwbypilot


 

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Status: offline 		Check your elevator halves for proper alignment if split, vertical stab for twist or misalignment and your wing and ailerons for abnormal twist. If not bad, mechanically adjust your ailerons and rudder to compensate for the rolling and fly it.

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RE: "New" Lil Toni by Great Planes - 6/20/2004 11:46 AM   
red_z06



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Status: offline 		some pics of ultimate muffler and cowl butchering.

note relocation of the pressure tap.

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RE: "New" Lil Toni by Great Planes - 6/20/2004 11:48 AM   
red_z06



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RE: "New" Lil Toni by Great Planes - 6/20/2004 11:51 AM   
red_z06



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RE: "New" Lil Toni by Great Planes - 6/20/2004 11:56 AM   
red_z06



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RE: "New" Lil Toni by Great Planes - 6/20/2004 11:57 AM   
red_z06



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RE: "New" Lil Toni by Great Planes - 6/20/2004 11:59 AM   
red_z06



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RE: "New" Lil Toni by Great Planes - 6/20/2004 12:01 PM   
red_z06



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RE: "New" Lil Toni by Great Planes - 6/20/2004 12:02 PM   
red_z06



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RE: "New" Lil Toni by Great Planes - 6/21/2004 4:21 PM   
red_z06



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Status: offline 		Little Toni was clocked at 113mph ( several readings ).
It is faster than calculated prop speed of 107mph using 11x9 @ 12.5k rpm.
Considering the drag loss, it must be unwinding to at least 13.5-14k rpm up there but need flight recorder to verify.

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RE: "New" Lil Toni by Great Planes - 6/21/2004 6:55 PM   
AdrianM


 

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Status: offline 		Getting 1k more rpm in the air is pretty normal so your speed and rpm figures look right on the money.


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RE: "New" Lil Toni by Great Planes - 7/3/2004 3:34 AM   
dean320



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Status: offline 		How does this plane fly? What I am specifically wondering is how it acts at low power or dead stick. I am assuming it drops like a brick being built for speed.

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RE: "New" Lil Toni by Great Planes - 7/3/2004 7:22 AM   
red_z06



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It is built for speed as it is extremely streamlined, therefore less drag to hold it down. However, stall is a function of wing loading not shape. This plane has plenty of wing area to keep it a float. In short, if you can slow it down then you can start to float it in for a flare landing.

As for my specific plane, I have to slow it down ( takes some effort ) way back then do normal landing. It is extremely stable at slow speed.

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RE: "New" Lil Toni by Great Planes - 7/3/2004 3:43 PM   
dean320



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Status: offline 		Thanks Red - I have a Saito 100 and am thinking it might be a great engine for this plane.

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RE: "New" Lil Toni by Great Planes - 7/3/2004 4:46 PM   
red_z06



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Status: offline 		Dean320:

I would highly recommand a 2 stroke engine between 90-120. I assume you bought this plane for some speed not 3D aerobatics.
Use following for some speed prediction.

Static Prop Speed in MPH.

SPS(mph) = Prop Pitch (in) x RPM(k) x 0.95

example;

15x6 prop running at 9000rpm would produce 6 x 9 x 0.95 = 51.3mph static speed.

When the plane is airborne, the engine will unwind and rev 1000 or more rpm due to less load on engine. However, since there are loses, expect only moderate gain on actual airspeed ( 3-6% more than static ).

Now the above figures are based on Saito 100 engine. You can reduce dia and increase pitch to reduce thrust and increase speed. Saito engines have safe rpm limit of 12000 so try to keep static (ground rpm) rpm to 10,500 to be safe. What happens when you over rev 4 stroke engine?

In simple terms, the valves will not stay closed and it will ( depend on cylinder head design ) hit the piston as it comes up and bend.

Why does this happen?

I will explane if there are people interested on this thread.

So, experiment with 13in prop first and see if how far you can increase the pitch while under 10,500 rpm. One thing I'm not 100% sure on is the 12000rpm limit. This could be the actual limit or limit with safety factor ( static limit ). So you can try to get 10,500 or 12k but I would stay on safe side until you know for sure.

Afterwards, do the above calculation and see if you will be happy with that speed. If not, do it again with 12in prop.

BTW, I am using OS 91FX running at 12,500 rpm static using 11x9 apc prop clocked at 113mph.


Enjoy

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RE: "New" Lil Toni by Great Planes - 7/3/2004 5:00 PM   
dean320



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Status: offline 		Wow Red, thanks for that info. I actually already have the Saito, but not the plane I would like to get something that would give me some good speed although I agree you really need a 2 stroke for the best speed. I was thinking of a Warbird but I fly from a grass field and I am not sure I want to get into messing with retracts.

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RE: "New" Lil Toni by Great Planes - 7/3/2004 6:21 PM   
red_z06



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Status: offline 		I believe that this plane is desined as a dual purpose aircraft. The airfoil is very thin for less drag for people who want speed and enlarged wing to support slow flying and aerobatics. Althoght it will not roll good due to very heavy dihedral.

You may not get the maximum speed but you can make the saito scream. For 13in prop, start with 13x8 and move up or down to achieve 10.5k rpm. For 12in prop, I would start experimenting at 12x10.

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RE: "New" Lil Toni by Great Planes - 7/4/2004 1:00 PM   
RCFREEK


 

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Status: offline 		I hv a WM midgt mustang and am unable to figure the best prop with a 91 FX. im using a 13*6 but no fun ! what do u folks suggest?

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RE: "New" Lil Toni by Great Planes - 7/4/2004 1:36 PM   
tIANci



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Status: offline 		13x8? Hehehe ...

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RE: "New" Lil Toni by Great Planes - 7/4/2004 1:38 PM   
tIANci



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RE: "New" Lil Toni by Great Planes - 7/4/2004 3:22 PM   
red_z06



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Status: offline 		If you want combo ( speed + aerobatic ) you might want to try 12 x 8. 13 x 8 gives much more thrust which is not needed on thin airfoil and streamlined fuse.

Or if you want pure speed, try 11 x 9 prop.

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