RE: Nomadio Sensor Radio  
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RE: Nomadio Sensor Radio - 5/1/2004 5:34:56 AM   
Nomadio



Posts: 87
Joined: 4/27/2004
From: Philadelphia, PA, USA
Status: offline 		SgtStop:
Power for the controller is supplied by a pack of 8 NiCds that are included with an external charger. This was devised to let you continue racing using a spare pack or even off the shelf regular AAs in a pinch. I do not know the recharge time for the NiCds.

Have your shop send an email to info@nomadio.net saying they want to be notified when our distribution plans are finalized. Then they will get an email in a few weeks that will tell them where to order.

We recognize that Sensor does sound too good to be true so our primary focus at this point is making sure that your OOBE (out of the box experience) matches the promise of the technology.

FHM101:
We are aware of this and have contacted ROAR for a ruling on how they would like us to lock out telemetry for sanctioned racing. Our idea is to have an easily verifiable "Blind Race" mode that the race director could check (just like he checks crystals now). I'm waiting to hear from the ROAR tech people right now. Note that we don't expect to get ROAR certified until after we've been shipping for a few months.

(in reply to sgtstop)
       Post #: 26

RE: Nomadio Sensor Radio - 5/1/2004 10:14:33 AM   
Tigger N. Bennie



Posts: 8395
Joined: 9/28/2003
From: Track, USA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Nomadio
a backlit Futaba 3PK + a Futaba receiver + 2 crystals + niCD batteries + charger carries a list price of $849. This package would typically street over $600.

Can you provide a link to this street price? I own a T3PK and I would like to see how you practically doubled the selling price of a T3PK sold at the local hobby shops.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Nomadio
With Sensor, you just turn on your car and go - no hijacks, no crystals, no pain . . . At RCX . . . I think that within 3 years, you'll only see crystal radios used for the cheapie RTR vehicles and anyone who is serious will be using our technology (or similar stuff from the other radio companies - I'm sure we are forcing them to act ).

I was at RCX and I saw your booth across from the Kyosho displays and RCP Tracks where I was racing. And although you probably consider Kyosho Mini-Z's cheap based on your post (despite how much some people actually spend on some Mini-Zs), will the "Sensor System" work with very small AM R/C cars--I use the Futaba T3PK with my Mini-Zs (as well as a 1:5 scale and several other R/Cs). Also, how much faster is the signal than Futaba's HRS mode and how difficult will it be to "set" digital servos with the "SS" or will they just burn out digital servos that much faster because of your system?

quote:

ORIGINAL: Nomadio
Finally unlike any other RC radio it uses special codes in its messages so that other radio signals on the same frequency will
never be mistaken for a command to your car.

So how are these "special codes" different from coded FM signals sent by other transmitters?

BTW, so what's with "waiting for plastic from china"?

(in reply to Nomadio)
       Post #: 27

RE: Nomadio Sensor Radio - 5/3/2004 5:02:34 PM   
fhm101



Posts: 2464
Joined: 12/22/2003
From: Pinson, AL, USA
Status: offline 		While ROAR approval is no biggie to me since i race in a class that's as yet not ROAR scantioned, their approval would be important since i feel that initial support for your product(s) will come from the hardcore racer segment of the hobby and ROAR approval will be important to most of these folks.

_____________________________

Hi, I'm FHM and I suffer from terminal tinkeritus.

(in reply to Tigger N. Bennie)
       Post #: 28

RE: Nomadio Sensor Radio - 5/3/2004 8:05:09 PM   
Nomadio



Posts: 87
Joined: 4/27/2004
From: Philadelphia, PA, USA
Status: offline 		Tigger N Bennie,
re: street price vs list price

My quote refers to list prices and you are referring to street prices. It doesn't matter really as long as we both talk about the same thing. Here's a street price example of a Futaba 3PK. These prices are current, from the Tower Hobbies web site. Keep in mind that we're comparing a full system, including synthesized radio and receiver, nicd batteries and charger. You get a full system with the Sensor, so we should compare a full system for Futaba.

Top of the line, backlit, synthesized Futaba 3PK system, including NiCd batteries and charger
Item Description Sell Price @ Tower Hobbies Implied List Price
LXCML5 Futaba 3PK 3-Channel PCM/No Servos 329.99 $399.99
LXGCY6 Futaba Synthesized 3-Channel Receiver 75MHz 3PK 119.99 $145.44
LXGCY9 Futaba PK-FSM75 3PK Synthesized Transmitter Module 89.99 $109.08

539.97 $654.51

You were right - I did not know that the 3PK included the nicd and charger so they were not included in this comparison. Let's look at an Airtronics M8 ...

LXFAH1 Airtronics M8 3-Channel FM Light Novak 419.99 $499.99
LX0851 Airtronics Transmitter NiCd Battery Stylus M8 57.99 $69.04
LXLX84 Airtronics Dual Charger 110V 75mAh Z 21.99 $26.18

499.97 $595.20


So while it's true you paid about $300 for the controller itself, you already had all the other stuff you needed. If you factor in that Sensor includes the temp, voltage, and speed sensors, at $649 list it's actually a pretty good deal!

re:Mini-Z's - If the receiver form factor is the same as larger RC cars, I don't see why Sensor wouldn't work. We've never tested it with Mini-Zs so I can't say definitely that it will.

re:Futaba's HRS mode. Interesting you should ask. We couldn't find anyplace where Futaba says exactly how fast it is .. they tell you it's twice as fast but they don't say what it's twice as fast as .. Kind of like "New - Improved". We refresh at 50hz, so every 20 milliseconds everything is updated. I don't have a definitive answer on digital servos but for now I would say that Sensor is not designed to work with them. We want it to be a drop-in for the bulk of drivers who use good old regular servos.

re:special codes. Without getting too technical, there's a big serial number in each message and each receiver throws away anything that doesn't have its serial number. That's why you have to initialize your system when you first set it up by pressing a button on the car and the controller at the same time. They "learn" each others serial number. Each time you add a car to your system, you add it to the controller by doing the same thing.

fhm101:
We agree. The pro racers will really benefit from Sensor tech so we want them to be able to use it as soon as possible. Also want to be accepted by the governing bodies to show that our thing is worthy of consideration after all these years of crystal radios with all their problems.

(in reply to Tigger N. Bennie)
       Post #: 29

RE: Nomadio Sensor Radio - 5/3/2004 8:21:07 PM   
Tigger N. Bennie



Posts: 8395
Joined: 9/28/2003
From: Track, USA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Nomadio
You were right - I did not know that the 3PK included the nicd and charger

We've never tested it with Mini-Zs so I can't say definitely that it will.

re:Futaba's HRS mode. . . We want it to be a drop-in for the bulk of drivers who use good old regular servos.

re:special codes. Without getting too technical, there's a big serial number in each message and each receiver throws away anything that doesn't have its serial number.

fhm101:
We agree. The pro racers will really benefit from Sensor tech

The T3PK (Magnum Version) also includes "both" a receiver and module in addition to the Ni-Cd and charger. Street price is $329.00. It's too bad that your radio doesn't appear to work with Mini-Zs and appears to be targeted toward "regular servos". The special coding simply explained reminds me of a transponder. By the way, how can your company and the radio both target "regulars" and "pro racers" if it is not geared towards digital servos unless of course, both don't use digital servos.

< Message edited by Tigger N. Bennie -- 5/3/2004 3:22:40 PM >

(in reply to Nomadio)
       Post #: 30

RE: Nomadio Sensor Radio - 5/3/2004 8:53:57 PM   
crazy_azz_mat



Posts: 101
Joined: 4/4/2004
From: Woodbridge, ON, CANADA
Status: offline 		that may just be me but the radio looks alittle toyish no?

(in reply to Tigger N. Bennie)
       Post #: 31

RE: Nomadio Sensor Radio - 5/3/2004 9:47:43 PM   
agjell


 

Posts: 67
Joined: 4/18/2004
From: Oslo, NORWAY
Status: offline 		Tigger N. Bennie: the Sensor includes a lot of features that any other top level radio cant compete against. you just have to face that it will be a bit more expensive, you get what you pay for right? i do agree with you about the digital servos though.

(in reply to Tigger N. Bennie)
       Post #: 32

RE: Nomadio Sensor Radio - 5/3/2004 10:17:36 PM   
crazy_azz_mat



Posts: 101
Joined: 4/4/2004
From: Woodbridge, ON, CANADA
Status: offline 		i think that they will eventually have some way of incorporating the digital servos bc they are going to start to notice that its pretty much a nessicesty to have

(in reply to agjell)
       Post #: 33

RE: Nomadio Sensor Radio - 5/3/2004 10:26:40 PM   
Tigger N. Bennie



Posts: 8395
Joined: 9/28/2003
From: Track, USA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: agjell
Tigger N. Bennie: the Sensor includes a lot of features that any other top level radio cant compete against. you just have to face that it will be a bit more expensive, you get what you pay for right? i do agree with you about the digital servos though.

I read the posts and I realize that this new radio currently appears to be more expensive; however, it is another thing to inflate the price of another radio in an attempt to decrease the price difference of some other radio transmitter. Even if the new transmitter system has more features than the T3PK, which I own, to me it doesn't justify the 2x price if I am restricted to analog servos and can't run my Mini-Zs. Consequently, it doesn't appear to be just a "drop in" system if I can't use my system.

< Message edited by Tigger N. Bennie -- 5/3/2004 5:28:03 PM >

(in reply to agjell)
       Post #: 34

RE: Nomadio Sensor Radio - 5/4/2004 1:47:28 AM   
fhm101



Posts: 2464
Joined: 12/22/2003
From: Pinson, AL, USA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Nomadio
fhm101:
We agree. The pro racers will really benefit from Sensor tech so we want them to be able to use it as soon as possible. Also want to be accepted by the governing bodies to show that our thing is worthy of consideration after all these years of crystal radios with all their problems.

Thanks again for the reply. I've got to say the more i think about this the more interested i get. Will your radio be able to capture sensor data and modify and/or override servo control to correct what it might be getting from the sensor in real time? Even being able to have your radio tell you when you are getting excessive clutch slippage would be real nice. Not to mention being able to save letting it go too long and welding a set of inner bearing races to the crankshaft. Do you have any published mounting and application specs/photos for your sensors yet?

_____________________________

Hi, I'm FHM and I suffer from terminal tinkeritus.

(in reply to Nomadio)
       Post #: 35

RE: Nomadio Sensor Radio - 5/4/2004 1:50:44 AM   
crazy_azz_mat



Posts: 101
Joined: 4/4/2004
From: Woodbridge, ON, CANADA
Status: offline 		i think that this is going to be more or less like a stepping stone for the new innovations to rc...this may not be the one that everyone is looking for just yet...but wait and eventually these things will be improved....whether or not from Nomadio

(in reply to fhm101)
       Post #: 36

RE: Nomadio Sensor Radio - 5/4/2004 3:01:41 AM   
Nomadio



Posts: 87
Joined: 4/27/2004
From: Philadelphia, PA, USA
Status: offline 		FHM: re:Mounting specs ..

Whew! You are a little early for that! That type of detailed information will become available when Sensor ships.

Tigger: re:digital servos

Our research indicates that digital servos are still only a small percent of the market. If you have other information, please share it. I agree with crazy_azz_matt in that we will certainly be supporting digital servos at some point in the future - I'm only talking about our initial ship group. You didn't mention what the space limitations were for your Mini-Zs. Are there special crystal receivers for Mini-Z?

Also on your T3PK - To be a fair comparison, it should be a synthesized radio, not a crystal radio, which is why I included the synth module and synth RX in my comparison. I stand by my statement that if you compare apples to apples, Sensor system is priced roughly the same as top of the line 3CH synthesized surface radios.

Roy
Nomadio

(in reply to fhm101)
       Post #: 37

RE: Nomadio Sensor Radio - 5/4/2004 8:50:51 AM   
Tigger N. Bennie



Posts: 8395
Joined: 9/28/2003
From: Track, USA
Status: offline 		Regarding a Mini-Z, the crystal fits into the R/C unit which is basically a small-flat PC board that connects to the antenna, servo, batteries, and so on. To help give you a better understanding of the scale size I have uploaded a photo of my Kyosho F1 with a transponder on top of an FG F1--the crystal is inserted under the body about where the driver is on the body.


(in reply to Nomadio)
       Post #: 38

RE: Nomadio Sensor Radio - 5/4/2004 7:40:18 PM   
Deandome