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Why is CL losing popularity? - 5/12/2004 5:09:44 AM   
scubyfan


 

Posts: 453
Joined: 4/14/2004
From: Los Angeles, CA, USA
Status: offline 		Hey guys,

I'm saddened that CL is losing its popularity to R/C. I'm sure this has often been the case, but moreso now than before, in my opinion. I learned the basics of engine maintenance, kit building, etc., on a PT-19 CL and a Lil Wizard CL. I find that experience invaluable. Besides, CL can be fun! People think of it as "it sucks, because the plane is attached with strings," but I think there is still room for fun, innovation (generally speaking), and competition. I know small groups of people still compete, especially in other countries, but I'm saddened to find that so few shops even carry common CL planes or parts. For example, I was unable to find a CL handle for my plane from Hobby People (formerly Hobby Shack, I think), and they had just ONE kit, that was probably left behind from god knows when.

Feel free to contribute this thread. I'm just venting.
       Post #: 1

RE: Why is CL losing popularity? - 5/12/2004 8:10:02 AM   
William Robison



Posts: 20269
Joined: 11/10/2002
From: Mary Esther, Florida, FL, USA
Status: offline 		Welll...

'Way back in the dark ages it was c/l or free flight. Granted, there were some nuts (like the Good brothers) playing with radio control. What they had really was more misdirected than it was controlled.

In late 1952 or early 1953 I got my first radio kit. No, not a kit for a radio controlled plane, a kit to build the radio. A very modern circuit, the rx used a "Gas" tube, no "A" battery required. Just one 67 1/2v "B" battery, and using a resistor in circuit you didn't have to have a separate set of cells to operate the escapement. It was good for its day, but what was good then would be execrable now. Still had to remember to wind the rubber for the escapement, though.

With the quality of "Affordable" r/c gear in the early 50s, c/l and free flight were still safe.

At the Nats in Grand Prarie, Texas, 60 or 61, I saw my first full proportional rig. It was the "Space Command" seven or eight channel, I had to have one. Then I found how much it cost. EIGHT HUNDRED BUCKS!! And this was when $100/week was really high pay.

With the lack of "Affordable" r/c gear in the early 60s, c/l and free flight were still safe.

When we got into the 70s, though, the numeric price of a good reliable radio set had gone down from the $800 of 1960, and the average wage had gone up, so the real price was a lot lower than it had been.

With the quality of "Affordable" r/c gear in the early 70s, c/l and free flight were going away.

And now, with a four or five channel rig, absolutely reliable, going for no more than $300, it is no surprise at all to me that r/c is taking over almost all sport flying. And the real price of the $300 rig, expressed in 1952 dollars, is about the same $10 I paid for the POS single channel rig with the gas tube back then.

Consider it another way.

Your r/c park flyer is in the back seat. Lunch time. Want to fly? Just park, get it out, start the engine, and fly. Wipe the plane off, put it in the back seat again, and go get a cheeseburger for lunch. Then back to work.

Your u/c plane is in the back seat. Want to fly? Get the plane out, run the lines out, (including the third line for the stooge) and anchor the stooge. Start the engine, run to the handle and pull the stooge wire. Now you're in the air for a nice time. Fly again? No, remember you're on your lunch hour. Wind up all the lines, clean the pegs for the stooge, wipe the plane, put everything back in the car, rush back to work. No time for a cheeseburger.

The convenience. Real or not, r/c just seems to be a lot easier, in addition to the true freedom from the hemispheric possible flight of control line.

Don't misunderstand. I still have some u/c planes. But 99% of my flight time goes to r/c. And when it's building time, I have to admit I'd rather build to have no strings attached.

Bill.

>>edit: misspelled word. wr.

< Message edited by William Robison -- 5/12/2004 2:35:53 PM >

_____________________________

Real Airplanes have Two Engines
AMA 25139 - More than 40 years.

(in reply to scubyfan)
       Post #: 2

RE: Why is CL losing popularity? - 5/12/2004 12:24:08 PM   
gcb



Posts: 2463
Joined: 10/24/2002
From: Port Ewen, NY, USA
Status: offline 		Still, within that hemisphere you can do things that stress models way beyond what RC usually encounters...like fly combat at 110 mph - 60 feet from you, fly a precision pattern while trying for the elusive five foot radius corner in a square maneuver, etc.
Each has its good and better (no bad) parts.
CL is not going away. As a matter of fact it's still growing. The numbers are small compared to RC, and some of us fly both.
Since many hobby shops will not carry CL stuff, we rely mostly on cottage industries and mail order. Sig still has CL equipment, and Brodak's has CL exclusively. Even Tower offers some CL equipment including a couple of CL ARF's and some CL engines.
If you can't find CL stuff locally, I would suggest getting a Sig and Brodak catalog.

George

(in reply to William Robison)
       Post #: 3

RE: Why is CL losing popularity? - 5/12/2004 1:26:13 PM   
Clean



Posts: 991
Joined: 4/19/2002
From: Parkville, MO, USA
Status: offline 		CL lost to the flash of cheap RC. But in an ever shrinking and litigious world where people are not apt to put up with a remotly controlled cruise missle, CL has started a come back. Park flying is fine, but I only need a 200 foot circle which is still pretty tight for most RC ships that can handle a breeze more than 5 mph. Also, you don't have to worry about the occasional glitch that can send your darling little model off to a point of destination unkown.

Going away, no more than any other aspect of the hobby, in fact our portion of the hobby has been growing for the last 10 years. Of course, at our numbers adding 1 or 2 hear or there is a markable increase!

Lord knows what the future brings, but I usually chalk this discussion up with the 'Where are all the young people' which of course if you've ever looked at an old magazine circa 40's and 50's was the lament back then as well. Along with, 'where are the true craftsman now that CL is so readily available' really cracks me up.

I fly RC and FF as well, though not as much FF thanks to this being a part of Kansas/Missouri where there is too much wind and too many trees! As for RC, I'm headed out to the Midwest Slope Challenge tomorrow for some slope soaring competition so I hope the wind actually DOES blow. Hadn't flown RC since New Years day otherwise, but that's due to the CL field being 5 minutes away and not 20 minutes away. Gotta have open spaces with those RC planes. And don't get me started with those behemoth IMAC planes who seemed damned and determined to get us ALL banned. Whoevers idea it was to have an airplane with half a Volkswagon engine in it for power and then to fly it in what must be viewed by the general public, (and most of the sane RC public) as out of control needs to be shot. Impressive, yes, but Holy Jesus would you guys get a grip! And where oh WHERE are the AMA DB restrictions when it comes to those things. You cannot planly port the exhaust of one of those things and expect it to be quite. The prop noise alone carrys more than a mile! Keep it up, and then CL WILL be making quite a large comeback. If townships will actually make the deferation between RC and CL when they go about banning.

And I always thought that winding in/out Control and stooge lines was always more than made up for never having to charge your transmitter, receiver and flight packs. AMA LI/ION emergency notice? Who cares, I'm thinking about going a step further and just flying diesels. Then I won't even need that Ni-starter.

_____________________________

From Somewhere near Parkville, Mo.
William Crane (aka Mr Clean) Rever Brother #168 Time Man of the Year

(in reply to gcb)
       Post #: 4

RE: Why is CL losing popularity? - 5/12/2004 1:56:25 PM   
Sport_Pilot



Posts: 7826
Joined: 1/21/2002
From: Acworth, GA, USA
Status: offline 		gcb is right. It seems to be growing slightly at least. A couple of years ago Tower had no C/L equipment except for a couple of Cox 1/2 planes. Now they have two ARFS, engines, handles, and line. They wouldn't have bothered if the numbers weren't there.

(in reply to Clean)
       Post #: 5

RE: Why is CL losing popularity? - 5/12/2004 3:01:40 PM   
Live Wire


 

Posts: 3842
Joined: 11/20/2002
From: Sterling , CO, USA
Status: offline 		To make it short Flying sites and money. Back whenI flew CL trees were planted in the park where we flew to stop us, then they said that the brown spots on the grass were caused by our planes, The cost has made a difference ARF ARF.
My Heath kit 8 channel was $469.00 in the 50's now you can buy radios from $40.00 UP!!!!!!!!!!
I rented a full scale 150 in the 60's $12.00 hr wet try that now.

(in reply to Sport_Pilot)
       Post #: 6

RE: Why is CL losing popularity? - 5/12/2004 7:00:10 PM   
slammin_sam



Posts: 202
Joined: 12/7/2002
From: Uniontown, PA, USA
Status: offline 		Scuby,

Check out Brodak.com. John has numerous kits available and a number on the drawing board. I'm helping him with setting up his laser cutter. The last few kits and all of them from now on will be laser cut. He's coming out with 6 different ARFs within the next month or so. I have two of the prototypes and they are as good as you can imagine. John has a flyin over the fathers day weekend that has hundreds of participants from nearly every state and at last count, 5 foreign countries. CL is alive and seems to be growing. Keep the faith.

< Message edited by slammin_sam -- 5/12/2004 2:00:44 PM >


_____________________________

Sam

(in reply to Live Wire)
       Post #: 7

RE: Why is CL losing popularity? - 5/12/2004 8:19:54 PM   
scubyfan


 

Posts: 453
Joined: 4/14/2004
From: Los Angeles, CA, USA
Status: offline 		Thanks for the replies, everyone. It's good to hear that it is not going away as fast as I thought it was.

(in reply to slammin_sam)
       Post #: 8

RE: Why is CL losing popularity? - 5/12/2004 8:44:44 PM   
Jim Thomerson



Posts: 2857
Joined: 10/9/2002
From: Austin, TX, USA
Status: offline 		I read a comment somewhere in an RC article some years ago to the effect that one day all modeling would be reduced to electric CL because of space, noise, etc. etc. Hopefully that is far in the future.

The fact is that competition stunt and sport flying are much healthier than they were 20 years ago (at least in my experience). Other aspects of CL are not doing so well, but still hanging in there. It will be interesting to see what the increasing numbers of quality ARFs will do for CL. I'm really waiting to see who will put a fully stunt-pattern capable electric on the CL market.

Jim

(in reply to scubyfan)
       Post #: 9

RE: Why is CL losing popularity? - 5/12/2004 11:12:38 PM   
telmore


 

Posts: 114
Joined: 11/13/2003
From: Bucks, UNITED KINGDOM
Status: offline 		Cos people like you are saying it is!

The control line sphere (pun intended) is more lively now than any time since the late 60's/early 70's when it was supposed to have died!

Tony

(in reply to Jim Thomerson)
       Post #: 10

RE: Why is CL losing popularity? - 5/13/2004 4:35:04 AM   
Rick 9d


 

Posts: 35
Joined: 9/16/2002
From: Elgin, IL, USA
Status: offline 		Just to throw my .02 in, RSM is also a plus in my book. Check out RSM for some very nice C/L models www.rsmdistribution.com and Eric Rule is a very nice person to deal with. My daughter is still flying one of the first, if not THE first, production Mark One kits. Flies great with an old Stallion 35 screaming on the front end, and can do the full pattern, but can still be tame enough for beginners.

Rick

< Message edited by Rick 9d -- 5/13/2004 4:39:18 AM >

(in reply to telmore)
       Post #: 11

RE: Why is CL losing popularity? - 5/13/2004 5:09:32 AM   
Clean



Posts: 991
Joined: 4/19/2002
From: Parkville, MO, USA
Status: offline 		They are presently working on cells that you fill with alcohol and run. The prime market for this is your laptop, never run out. But with this technology it won't be long before we refuel and fly till the alcohol runs out, ie you'll need to have an on off switch. Electric control line is already here, just not widly known. It will be the norm in the future, but it will be a while. Many of us will always love the sound of the engines.

_____________________________

From Somewhere near Parkville, Mo.
William Crane (aka Mr Clean) Rever Brother #168 Time Man of the Year

(in reply to Rick 9d)
       Post #: 12

RE: Why is CL losing popularity? - 5/13/2004 1:39:11 PM   
Sport_Pilot



Posts: 7826
Joined: 1/21/2002
From: Acworth, GA, USA
Status: offline
quote:

They are presently working on cells that you fill with alcohol and run. The prime market for this is your laptop, never run out.


Sooorry Bossss. Thass not boozzzee, thass for my llaaptoop!! Hic!!

(in reply to Clean)
       Post #: 13

RE: Why is CL losing popularity? - 5/13/2004 9:15:03 PM   
RCPAUL


 

Posts: 638
Joined: 12/15/2001
From: Gahanna, OH, USA
Status: offline 		Can someone support with numbers that UC is indeed growing. I doubt it. The majority of those practicing this part of the hobby are old - very old and starting to die at a high rate. The newer advocates are usually people returning after many years - retreads - also old and not young people.

With the advent of cheap radios, park flyers, indoor RC, and ARFs, RC will continue to attract the younger set and continue to significantly grow. It can now be flown in very limited areas and areas that are noise sensitive.

UC has one degree of freedom (elevator) and is buried in the past that most middle age people were never exposed to and could care less. RC has usually three or four degrees of freedom (elevator, rudder, throttle, and aileron - some or all) which leads to more interesting flight for the advocate or the newbie.

I recently tried UC again after being away for 35 years. I found it dull - very dull!


Paul

(in reply to Sport_Pilot)
       Post #: 14

RE: Why is CL losing popularity? - 5/13/2004 9:32:55 PM