RE: Castor oil - A final word?  
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RE: Castor oil - A final word? - 6/17/2004 8:47:29 PM   
Sport_Pilot



Posts: 7728
Joined: 1/21/2002
From: Acworth, GA, USA
Status: offline 		Steve,
Sure it was green cruel power he used? If all cruel power is the same why is this one red with 20% oil?

http://www2.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin/wti0001p?&I=LXHCU5&P=7

(in reply to Sport_Pilot)
       Post #: 251

RE: Castor oil - A final word? - 6/17/2004 8:50:56 PM   
William Robison



Posts: 20269
Joined: 11/10/2002
From: Mary Esther, Florida, FL, USA
Status: offline 		Steve:

Insufficient clearance in the bearings will also cause damage to the balls under load, the damage will look exactly like that done by ingested trash.

A high speed bearing, fresh out of the box should have some free play, this is to allow for the compression of the outer race and expansion of the inner race when mounted. And your difficulties removing them makes me think they were fitted too tightly. The outer race should be just a little more than a push fit, the inner shaft should be the same. As tight as your installation was the ball clearance almost definitely was from zero to nonexistent, causing an early failure.

And neither castor oil nor synthetic lubricants will prevent it.

Bill.

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RE: Castor oil - A final word? - 6/17/2004 10:21:51 PM   
Steve Campbell


 

Posts: 4195
Joined: 12/8/2001
From: Zachary, LA, USA
Status: offline 		Bill,

What you wrote is basically what my source (who has forgotten more about engines and engine-related stuff than most of us- combined- will ever know) told me; the tight fit is bad ju-ju. BTW, the bearing in the photo has a metal inner cage. I scraped the surface rust off the outer cage, and the discoloration is still there; i.e., as mentioned by others, signs of high heat.

Sport-Pilot, the engine has definitely had only green Cool Power through it. That 20% red stuff is new; a special blend with high-viscosity oil for the stick-bangers whose idea of engine power is to lean the high-end just short of seizure, and then get out there and "rip up the sky"... The art of helicopter engine-tuning is becoming a lost one, I fear; nowadays, folks can just about buy their way into insane power without bothering to learn what makes it happen.

Anyway, I had heard that 20% "red" was coming, but didn't realize it was available. Thanks for the heads-up.

.

< Message edited by Steve Campbell -- 6/17/2004 4:22:47 PM >

(in reply to William Robison)
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RE: Castor oil - A final word? - 6/17/2004 10:58:58 PM   
William Robison



Posts: 20269
Joined: 11/10/2002
From: Mary Esther, Florida, FL, USA
Status: offline 		Steve:

Metal cage? I don't rcall ever seeing a metal cage that had open balls on it. All were two piece, full surround, spot welded between each pair of balls. But if you say the one in the picture is metal... I've learned one of my new items for today.

Regardless, the scale will accumulate on a metal cage as readily as on a plastic one.

Bill.

_____________________________

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RE: Castor oil - A final word? - 6/18/2004 1:30:14 AM   
kenobi


 

Posts: 17
Joined: 6/17/2004
From: , NY, USA
Status: offline 		All of the discussion over synthetic has just one major problem, none of the synthetics mentioned were created specifically for our small nitro engines, these oils just work. The only oil that I know of that was made SPECIFICALLY for our nitro engines is Motul Micro Motori Oil. I have been using it for years now and it surpasses ANY other oil including castor. This is a purpose made oil that is `wet` like castor and leaves a nice somewhat thick coating on all parts. The person who introduced me to this great stuff races 1/8 on-road cars with .21 engines 30% nitro and only 5% oil. YES only 5% oil. I personally have not been able to muster the intestinal fortitude to try this and go no lower than 8%, BUT all of my engines have been lasting over 10 gallons, NO castor at all, run the engine dry, pull to BDC and put away. The oil leaves everything coated. Klotz and the others mentioned are for other engines, not our small glo-engines that run on methanol with or without nitro. The oil never separates from the fuel even at 18% for my 4 strokes. The oil does not burn any cleaner and the side of my plane is covered with oil just like it would be with castor. The point is that a synthetic created for a purpose will and can do a better job than castor. It is true that you cannot go wrong with castor, time has proven that, however, Motul Micro does not have the flaws that the other synthetics not meant for this application do. Would you put tranny fluid in the motor of your car? Then why use motorcycle oil for a nitro/meth glo engine and expect it to work as good as it should? If anyone else has any experience with Motul Micro, please let me know. I just love the stuff and have quite the stockpile for making my own fuels.

< Message edited by kenobi -- 6/18/2004 1:32:03 AM >

(in reply to William Robison)
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RE: Castor oil - A final word? - 6/18/2004 2:21:33 AM   
William Robison



Posts: 20269
Joined: 11/10/2002
From: Mary Esther, Florida, FL, USA
Status: offline 		Obiwan:

Can't contradict your experience, but I have to point out one huge flaw in our using the Motul Micro in the USA.

It. Is. Not. Available. Here.

Now if you or JanK would send a couple gallons for us to try...

Bill.

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AMA 25139 - More than 40 years.

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RE: Castor oil - A final word? - 6/18/2004 2:25:01 AM   
William Robison



Posts: 20269
Joined: 11/10/2002
From: Mary Esther, Florida, FL, USA
Status: offline 		Obiwan:

Just noticed your location as being New York. Is somebody in your area importing the Motul Micro, or are you doing it for yourself?

Bill.

_____________________________

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RE: Castor oil - A final word? - 6/18/2004 3:00:43 AM   
djlyon



Posts: 1942
Joined: 12/10/2001
From: Castaic, CA, USA
Status: online 		Yup, here in Southern California there is an Motul bricks and morter outlet in Orange County. When I called them looking for Motul Micro or motul oil for model airplane engines they had no idea what I was talking about.

Denis

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RE: Castor oil - A final word? - 6/18/2004 3:11:41 AM   
kenobi


 

Posts: 17
Joined: 6/17/2004
From: , NY, USA
Status: offline 		Are you guys ready for the big secret?

O.K. Here it is:

Contact Pantera International in California, they have it in stock as I type this. No one knew that they had to carry it as part of the entire Motul line, so it sat on a shelf, until I started buying it 5 gallons at a time. They now know there is a demand and plan to have it in stock at all times. It works out to around $60 a gallon, but it more than worth it. It may not be so good for those who run 18% oil in their fuel, but in my race car engines I only need 8%. (or less) I have a few spare cans I think are 2 liter cans I would be willing to let someone with paypal enjoy.

It seems a simple lack of communication has led a great product to be stuck on the shelves unknown. Well, the cat is out of the bag, and I hope that when they see it being sold more in the U.S. they will supply some info, specs and support, other than just seeing the results for myself. I am sorry, but I am the kind of person who likes info straight from the horses mouth when I can. Motul, do you hear me? Let folks know what it is and where to get it, and you will sell it! Is there a problem with making money? Not only is Motul Micro the best for our micro engines, it is the ONLY one for our micro engines. Lazy French? (no offence, J/K) I have noticed that to a degree, some European companies are not concerned with the U.S. market.

< Message edited by kenobi -- 6/18/2004 3:15:42 AM >

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RE: Castor oil - A final word? - 6/18/2004 3:53:00 AM   
jessiej



Posts: 1803
Joined: 7/6/2003
From: STATESBORO, GA, USA
Status: offline 		If this stuff is made in France it shall never see the inside of my engines.

jess

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RE: Castor oil - A final word? - 6/18/2004 4:11:12 AM   
William Robison



Posts: 20269
Joined: 11/10/2002
From: Mary Esther, Florida, FL, USA
Status: offline 		Jess:

There is that French bit.

But do you realize that both Ford and Chrysler use French engines in some of their cars? (As well as Jap engines and parts, of course.)

Bill.

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AMA 25139 - More than 40 years.

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RE: Castor oil - A final word? - 6/18/2004 5:31:08 AM   
djlyon



Posts: 1942
Joined: 12/10/2001
From: Castaic, CA, USA
Status: online 		And I remember when the Buick Reviera was made entirely in Korea.

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RE: Castor oil - A final word? - 6/18/2004 5:39:35 AM   
William Robison



Posts: 20269
Joined: 11/10/2002
From: Mary Esther, Florida, FL, USA
Status: offline 		And the Winnebago "Mini-Winnie" is a product of Saviem (part of Regie Renault) in France.

And being part of Regie Renault not only is it French, the French government owns the factory.

But then again, PRV, who makes the aluminum OHC V-6 engines for Ford (Volvo) and Chrysler is also owned by the French government.

Bill.

< Message edited by William Robison -- 6/17/2004 11:43:03 PM >

_____________________________

Real Airplanes have Two Engines
AMA 25139 - More than 40 years.

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RE: Castor oil - A final word? - 6/18/2004 4:16:13 PM   
3d-aholic



Posts: 1992
Joined: 10/7/2003
From: Austin, TX, USA
Status: offline 		You'll have a hard time getting me to believe that Motul, (which sounds like the old snake oil commercial) can somehow be put in concentrations of only 8% to everyone else's oil at 15% or more. Of course 8% of even less percentage of oil is way sufficient oil in a larger, water cooled combustion engine...but these little model airplane engines work much larger, and without tranys, run constantly at or above the typical red-lines of these larger racing engines.

Sounds like another French promise to me...
And, BTW, California Cabernet is a better wine too...

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RE: Castor oil - A final word? - 6/18/2004 5:02:50 PM   
jessiej



Posts: 1803
Joined: 7/6/2003
From: STATESBORO, GA, USA
Status: offline 		[And the Winnebago "Mini-Winnie" is a product of Saviem (part of Regie Renault) in France.

And being part of Regie Renault not only is it French, the French government owns the factory.

But then again, PRV, who makes the aluminum OHC V-6 engines for Ford (Volvo) and Chrysler is also owned by the French government.

Bill. ]

I am well aware of this Bill, and own none of those products. To my horror I discovered several years ago when one burned out, that the turn signal bulbs in my Harley were made in France. The machine has been purged and the Motor Company sent a letter expressing my displeasure. (I will add that my HDI stock is performing well )

I have tried to avoid French products since their refusal to allow use of their airspace when the U.S. attacked the Terrorist Kadaffi.

I will confess to having made a couple of trips through France en route elsewhere. I'll not go back.

jess

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