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RE: Castor oil - A final word? - 12/25/2007 11:06:57 PM   
skiman762



Posts: 1166
Joined: 12/1/2005
From: Nashville, NC, USA
Status: offline 		castor is a vegetable oil
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Castor_oil

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RE: Castor oil - A final word? - 12/25/2007 11:23:58 PM   
Flyboy Dave



Posts: 13375
Joined: 3/20/2002
From: San Bernardino County, CA, USA
Status: offline 		Yes it is a type of vegetable oil, but not a cooking oil made for human consumption
like most vegetable oils.

That Wikipedia article does not have the word "de-gummed" in it, nor does it say
what the "gum" might be, why or how it is removed....nothing about de-gumming.

I'm starting to wonder since regular vegetable oils (cooking oils) are certainly
de-gummed....folks just assumed that castor is de-gummed as well.



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RE: Castor oil - A final word? - 12/25/2007 11:34:21 PM   
skiman762



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From: Nashville, NC, USA
Status: offline 		I agree with you I'm sure the fuel makers can't and don't do anything to the castor they use to blend our fuels with

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RE: Castor oil - A final word? - 12/26/2007 12:00:06 AM   
skiman762



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Joined: 12/1/2005
From: Nashville, NC, USA
Status: offline 		Dave
here's a better site that has castor listed then the processing steps
seems the pressing gets the oil from the seed and degumming is one of the refining processes

http://ces.iisc.ernet.in/energy/HC270799/HDL/ENV/enven/vol238.htm

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RE: Castor oil - A final word? - 12/26/2007 12:15:49 AM   
skiman762



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Joined: 12/1/2005
From: Nashville, NC, USA
Status: offline 		Here's another on

http://www.nyscc.org/news/archive/tech0802.htm

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RE: Castor oil - A final word? - 12/26/2007 12:35:54 AM   
blw



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From: Auburn, AL, USA
Status: offline 		I think that degummed is a term used to differentiate between the first pressing and all others. The term is a reversal of the actual process, since the first batch is pure and naturally free of additional substances. The problem comes with subsequent extraction techniques.

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RE: Castor oil - A final word? - 12/26/2007 12:40:14 AM   
skiman762



Posts: 1166
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From: Nashville, NC, USA
Status: offline 		It looks like it's a seperate process from the press extration of the crude or virgin oil


Many cosmetics applications require cold-pressed, virgin oil. On the other hand, some seeds are too low in oil to economically remove the oil by pressing. In any case, once you have the crude oil, you can move onto refining. Refining is done by filtering the oil through clay or silica, which can remove color. In an operation called "degumming," alkali in water is added to the oil and some ingredients, especially fatty acids and one called "phospholipids" are solubilized or precipitated or are filtered out. Finally, steam can be passed through the oil to remove odor in an operation called deodorization. This step also breaks down oxygen attached to the oil, which might lower oil quality. Hopefully, after all of this refining the oil is light in color, has no odor, no oxygen breakdown products and no solid wax. The amount of oil you have left after refining is related to the amount of crude oil you started with or to the amount of oil in the seed extracted by each step in the process

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RE: Castor oil - A final word? - 12/26/2007 12:50:44 AM   
Flyboy Dave



Posts: 13375
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From: San Bernardino County, CA, USA
Status: offline 		....yes....all those descriptions of "processing" the oils are about oils other than castor.
Castor oil is not "refined" like almost all the other types. Again, I'm starting to believe
that this de-gumming castor oil business has been because since it is in the vegatable
oil family, it is presumed to be "refined" like the othe oils.

The castor oil we use is squeezed (pressed), filtered (to get the husk debris out) and
put into a container to be sold....just that simple.

I think the "de-gummed" thing is just a marketing ploy to have us believe something
special has been done to the stuff. I could be wrong, but that is my opinion at this point.

FBD.

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RE: Castor oil - A final word? - 12/26/2007 1:04:07 AM   
skiman762



Posts: 1166
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From: Nashville, NC, USA
Status: offline 		this throws a spin on it

Uses in early aviation and aeromodelling
Castor oil was the preferred lubricant for the early aviation powerplant design known as the rotary engine, such as the Gnome engines used in pre-World War I "pioneer aircraft", after that engine's widespread adoption for aviation in Europe in 1909, and was used almost universally by the rotary engines in World War I Allied aircraft.

The methanol-fuelled glow plug engines used for aeromodelling purposes, since their adoption in the model airplane hobby in 1948, have used castor oil as a dependable lubricant that is highly resistant to degradation when the engine has its fuel-air mixture "leaned out" for maximum engine speed. The aforementioned gummy residue problem can still be troublesome for aeromodelling powerplants lubricated with castor oil, however, usually resulting in eventual ball bearing replacement when the residue builds up too much within the engine's bearing races.

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RE: Castor oil - A final word? - 12/26/2007 1:13:57 AM   
Flyboy Dave



Posts: 13375
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From: San Bernardino County, CA, USA
Status: offline 		....the guy that wrote that last sentence obviously has never been an aero-modeler using
castor in his engines....

....a synthetic oil salesman probably told him that.

FBD.

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RE: Castor oil - A final word? - 12/26/2007 3:23:21 AM   
downunder



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From: Adelaide, AUSTRALIA
Status: offline 		From http://www.castoroil.in/extraction/extraction.html

Castor Oil Extraction
Extraction of oil from castor seeds is done in a manner similar to that for most other oil seeds. The ripe seeds are allowed to dry, when they split open and discharge the seeds. These seeds are cleaned, cooked and dried prior to extraction. Cooking is done to coagulate protein (necessary to permit efficient extraction), and to free the oil for efficient pressing.

The first stage of oil extraction is pre-pressing, using a high pressure continuous screw press – called the expeller. Extracted oil is filtered, and the material removed from the oil is fed back into the stream along with fresh material. Material finally discharged from the press, called cake, contains 8 to 10 percent oil. It is crushed into a coarse meal, and subjected to solvent extraction with hexane or heptane.

Oil Purification
Once the oil has been extracted from the seed, it is necessary to remove impurities from the oil.
The oil is essentially a pure triglyceride, and contains almost 90% of glyceryl tricinoleate. It is the ricinoleic triglyceride that is needed in order to produce high quality castor oil.

The steps to refining the crude oil include:
* Settling and Degumming of the oil - Done to remove the aqueous phase from the lipids, and to remove phospholipids from the oil.
* Bleaching - Bleaching results in the removal of coloring materials, phospholipids and oxidation products.
* Neutralization - The neutralization step is necessary to remove free fatty acids from the oil. This can be done in one of two ways: (a) Alkali (Chemical) or (b) Steam Stripping (Physical) means.

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RE: Castor oil - A final word? - 12/26/2007 4:41:59 AM   
Flyboy Dave



Posts: 13375
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From: San Bernardino County, CA, USA
Status: offline 		....

quote:

FBD: I think the "de-gummed" thing is just a marketing ploy to have us
believe something special has been done to the stuff.


.....that's what I get for thinking (again).

....good one, Brian....

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RE: Castor oil - A final word? - 12/26/2007 2:57:11 PM   
skiman762



Posts: 1166
Joined: 12/1/2005
From: Nashville, NC, USA
Status: offline 		here are the first press grades of CASTOR OIL


1. Pale pressed grade castor oil is a form of castor oil that is characteristically clear and free from suspended matter. Light in colour and low in acidity, it is obtained from the first pressing of the castor bean.

2. First Pressed Degummed
Castor oil that is first pressed, filtered and then degummed has the unique lubricating properties of castor without the excessive buildup and carbon


Now I would have to say that clearly that castor oil goes through many different processes depending on it's intented use
I also think it's safe to say that ALL fuel blenders excludeing home brewers use First Pressed/Degummed castor
and that some choose to advertise it that way in hopes that a custumer will be swayed to their product when in fact all blenders are useing the same grade of oil

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RE: Castor oil - A final word? - 12/26/2007 4:48:43 PM   
jaka


 

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Joined: 12/11/2001
From: Upplands Vasby, SWEDEN
Status: offline 		Hi!
So...what do say Castrol M is...degummed Castor or not??

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RE: Castor oil - A final word? - 12/26/2007 5:02:39 PM   
skiman762



Posts: 1166
Joined: 12/1/2005
From: Nashville, NC, USA
Status: offline 		Complete List of Castor Oil & Castor Oil Derivatives

l
Castor Meal
Hydrogenated Castor Oil (HCO)
12 Hydroxy Stearic Acid (12 HSA)
Methyl 12 HSA (Hydroxy Stearate Acid)
Blown Castor Oil
COLM (Urethane Grade)
Commercial Grade
BP
DAB-10
Deodorized
European Pharmacopia
Extra Pale Grade
Pale Pressed Grade (PPG)
First Pressed Degummed
Special Grade (First Special Grade (FSG)
United States Pharmacopia (USP)
Industrial Castor Oil
Dehydrated Castor Oil (DCO)
Ethoxylated Castor Oil
Ricinoleic Acid
Methyl Ricinoleate
Sebacic Acid
2-Octanol
C 3
Glycerine
C-7
Heptanoic Acid
Heptaldehyde
Heptyl Alcohol (Heptanol)
C 11
Undecylenic Acid
Undecanoic Acid
Undecylenic Aldehyde
Undecylenic Alcohol
Calcium Undecylenate
Zinc Undecylenate
Allyl Undecylenate
Sodium Undecylenate
Methyl Undecylenate
Ethyl Undecylenate
C 18
Esterols

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