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RE: Castor oil - A final word? - 6/1/2004 9:51:08 PM   
William Robison



Posts: 20269
Joined: 11/10/2002
From: Mary Esther, Florida, FL, USA
Status: offline 		Ernie and Sporty:

I'm running Omega fuel primarily, with a castor/synth blend, and I have no more trouble with an inverted Saito than I have with an upright Magnum or K&B.

Bill.

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RE: Castor oil - A final word? - 6/1/2004 9:55:33 PM   
Sport_Pilot



Posts: 7641
Joined: 1/21/2002
From: Acworth, GA, USA
Status: online 		Had an engine that ran fine fully inverted but had issues with being mounted 45 degrees to the side. The plug would load up with Omega, ran lots better with Cool Power, but still not as well upright.

(in reply to William Robison)
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RE: Castor oil - A final word? - 6/2/2004 12:19:06 AM   
Flyboy Dave



Posts: 13371
Joined: 3/20/2002
From: San Bernardino County, CA, USA
Status: offline 		Synthetic oil does not produce much smoke when it is burned, nor
does it produce much ash....

....those are the primary reasons for it's existence.

FBD.

_____________________________

An engineer says.... "That won''t work".
A mechanic says..."Oh yeah, watch this".
"Old Age, and Treachery will overcome youth and skill".
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RE: Castor oil - A final word? - 6/2/2004 2:10:55 AM   
Steve Campbell


 

Posts: 4191
Joined: 12/8/2001
From: Zachary, LA, USA
Status: offline 		<<Synthetic oil does not produce much smoke when it is burned...>>

Okay; then what causes the virtual fog of smoke when a 61 heli two-stroke and canister muffler is running happily on 30% Cool Power- which 22% low-viscosity all-synthetic oil??? Enough of a fog, in fact, to irritate the greenies in Asia (Japan, specifically) to the point that such smoke-producing fuels are basically banned there???

.

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       Post #: 79

RE: Castor oil - A final word? - 6/2/2004 4:27:10 AM   
Flyboy Dave



Posts: 13371
Joined: 3/20/2002
From: San Bernardino County, CA, USA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Steve Campbell

<<Synthetic oil does not produce much smoke when it is burned...>>

Okay; then what causes the virtual fog of smoke when a 61 heli two-stroke
and canister muffler is running happily on 30% Cool Power- which 22%
low-viscosity all-synthetic oil??? Enough of a fog, in fact, to irritate the
greenies in Asia (Japan, specifically) to the point that such smoke
producing fuels are basically banned there???



The smoke from our aero-engines is due to the mass quantities of oil that
are mixed in the fuel. Keep in mind....those same exact synthetic oils....used in a
50cc motorcycle engine would be mixed at 40-1 or less. That's 2 1/2 %.

You're using 10 times that amount of oil....that's why it smokes so bad.

As an example....say your car held 20 gallons of gas. It was empty....you
decided to fill the tank, but before you did....

....you added 16 quarts of oil to the gas tank, then filled it with gas.
(that's 20% ). Do you think it would smoke....?

Dave.

_____________________________

An engineer says.... "That won''t work".
A mechanic says..."Oh yeah, watch this".
"Old Age, and Treachery will overcome youth and skill".
Revver Bro #4.

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       Post #: 80

RE: Castor oil - A final word? - 6/2/2004 5:50:06 AM   
ini


 

Posts: 137
Joined: 4/10/2003
From: , FINLAND
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: William Robison

Sporty:

I must differ with you, sir. Most of the synthetic does burn.

Consider your mention of it getting on the plane. Given the same oil percentage in the fuel, castor will really slime up the plane - it doesn't burn. Using synthetic oil, burning the same amount of fuel, the plane is just barely oily. The rest of the oil went where? It burned.

Bill.


You must have had some pretty low quality synthetic.
In my case there is no difference in oil quantity on the plane after flying, compared to castor. The difference is in cleaning effort.
Also the inside of the engine is clean, no varnish build up nor burnt castor (black residue).

ini

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RE: Castor oil - A final word? - 6/2/2004 6:28:51 AM   
DarZeelon



Posts: 6975
Joined: 4/9/2003
From: Rosh-Ha'Ayin, ISRAEL
Status: offline 		Bill,

Heat capacity, or as you term it; specific heat, relates to all substances and cooling media; be it water, oil, anti-freeze or anything else.
It is relative to water, which has a very high value here.

Don't you think this thread should be moved to the 'Model Fuels' forum?


Hugh,

Flashing is not used to signify a state change. It is the temperature, at which vapors of the substance ignite and burn.
The state change relates to "latent heat of evaporation"; an attribute which makes our glow engine partly 'liquid cooled'.

It also concerns the oil, but to a lesser degree.

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RE: Castor oil - A final word? - 6/2/2004 1:17:47 PM   
Steve Campbell


 

Posts: 4191
Joined: 12/8/2001
From: Zachary, LA, USA
Status: offline 		<<...mass quantities of oil...>>

I understand that, Dave.

But if the smoke isn't the by-product of combustion (i.e., burning), what is it???

.

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       Post #: 83

RE: Castor oil - A final word? - 6/2/2004 4:38:13 PM   
downunder



Posts: 3168
Joined: 10/10/2002
From: Adelaide, AUSTRALIA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: DarZeelon
Don't you think this thread should be moved to the 'Model Fuels' forum?

Not really because oil isn't a fuel
But I think I'll start another thread on the "oil carries heat away" because this time I disagree with Clarence Lee.

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RE: Castor oil - A final word? - 6/2/2004 5:52:10 PM   
Flyboy Dave



Posts: 13371
Joined: 3/20/2002
From: San Bernardino County, CA, USA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Steve Campbell

<<...mass quantities of oil...>>

I understand that, Dave.

But if the smoke isn't the by-product of combustion (i.e., burning), what is it???

.


The smoke is, of course, the oil burning. The only synthetic oil that does not
"burn" (to my knowledge) is Klotz. Klotz oil is a butyl gas in a liquid state. It
does not burn....when heated to a certain temp....it goes poof....

....right back into a gas. Gone. If your fuel is pink, you probably have Klotz
in it. Sometimes you can see a pink tinge from the dye in the Klotz on your
plane....but you will not see the oil....it is floating away somewhere !

If you were burning the synthetic oils at 1, 2, 3, or 4 %....they way they were
designed, you would be hard pressed to see any smoke. If you looked closely
you might see a slight haze at full throttle. Why full throttle ? Because that is
when the most fuel is being burned....the oil is going along for the ride.

FBD.

< Message edited by Flyboy Dave -- 6/2/2004 1:45:19 PM >

_____________________________

An engineer says.... "That won''t work".
A mechanic says..."Oh yeah, watch this".
"Old Age, and Treachery will overcome youth and skill".
Revver Bro #4.

(in reply to Steve Campbell)
       Post #: 85

RE: Castor oil - A final word? - 6/2/2004 7:37:09 PM   
JimTrainor


 

Posts: 1308
Joined: 10/25/2002
From: Ontario, ON, CANADA
Status: offline 		In light of downunder's other thread, I'm wondering...

Does castor conduct heat better than synthetic?

Is it more effective in transfering heat between moving parts?

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RE: Castor oil - A final word? - 6/2/2004 8:45:12 PM   
Ernie Misner


 

Posts: 3153
Joined: 7/5/2002
From: Tacoma, WA, USA
Status: offline 		One fellow at our flying site is CONSTANTLY looking at the color of the oily residue coming out of his muffler after a flight. (he has others doing that now too...:-)

If the residue is very dark or black, the theory is that you are running a bit too lean and on the hot side. Richen up a click or two and after the next flight the residue will be clear. I belive this assumes there is some castor in the fuel.

A couple of guys who would not take the time to do this belong to the racing group. They tune for every last rpm before taking off to chase each other around the sky. On the other hand, most of our sport fliers like the idea of making an engine last for years and years if possible.

Ernie

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RE: Castor oil - A final word? - 6/2/2004 9:59:52 PM   
jessiej



Posts: 1803
Joined: 7/6/2003
From: STATESBORO, GA, USA
Status: online 		Ini, this oil of yours must be some great stuff. I have seldom heard of a product endorsed with such passion and zeal.

Even so I would never say that 'There is no power in this world to reconvince me' that nothing is better. I generally, though some times begrudgingly, yield to other powers, such as the power of truth.

How does the synthetic of which you speak so glowingly work on arthritis? I have a bum knee I would like to try it on.

jess
.

< Message edited by hobbsy -- 6/4/2004 9:57:58 PM >

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RE: Castor oil - A final word? - 6/3/2004 6:56:21 AM   
ini


 

Posts: 137
Joined: 4/10/2003
From: , FINLAND
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: jessiej
How does the synthetic of which you speak so glowingly work on arthritis? I have a bum knee I would like to try it on.


It would probably cure that, too. PM me and I'll send you a sample

If you're talking about passion to me it seems that there is a great passion to promote castor on that side of the pond. In this media, RCU, the who shouts loudest and most frequent gets through. Others will just be burried. In many cases it is not the facts that count, only opinions. It starts to look like that in this thread also.

But, trying to be as objective as possible, I will put here some pros and cons of castor and MODERN synthetic:

Castor benefits
- Cheap (at least some grades)
- Availability in some areas
- Higher flashpoint, helps in EXTREME hot runs

Castor disanvantages
- Carbon buildup, especially inside engine
- More friction, causing higher temperatures
- Varnish build up (harmful in tank and carburettor)
- More difficult to clean

Synthetic benefits (this based on Fuchs Aerosave & Aerosynth2 and Motul Micro)
- Less friction, better lubrication -> lower running temperature and less wear
- Better viscosity coefficient -> better protection on very cold engine as well as hot engine (not extremely hot)
- Adheres better on surfaces (cylinder etc.)
- Mixes well with methanol and nitro (no separation)
- Keeps engine inside clean
- Carburettor adjustment easier and less prone to temperature changes
- Glow plugs last longer and work better
- Plane easier to clean after flight

Synthetic disanvantages
- Not as good protection against extreme temperatus (normally never existing)
- In some situations worse corrosion protection on engine storage


As a result I can not recommend using only castor. For those who need it by no means mix some castor in your oil. Doing that engine wear will increase a lot. Those who use a lot of fuel and aim to run engines a long time modern full synthetic is better choice.
If an engine was run on castor it needs it. As it is already worn it does not work with pure synthetic any more.

For beginners it is probably a good idea to use castor/synthetic mix.

Most opinions of synthetic oils are based on experience of early synthetic oil 20 years back. Those were not good at all.
BTW, carb adjustment should always be checked by performance in the air. That is not always the same as on grund.
Optimum performance in achieved with slighly rich setting. This checking of exhaust by color is a good measure, recommended.


ini

edit:
That cooking test does not tell you much. I do not plan to cook my engines, anyway

< Message edited by ini -- 6/3/2004 7:57:48 AM >

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RE: Castor oil - A final word? - 6/3/2004 7:24:46 AM   
William Robison