RE: Castor oil - A final word?  
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RE: Castor oil - A final word? - 6/3/2004 8:10:26 PM   
ini


 

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From: , FINLAND
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Sport_Pilot

ini,

You have several things wrong.

1. The issue that synthetic oil has less friction is a bit of a myth, it is thinner which makes it more slick at room temperature, but it also has a better viscosity index, that it it thins out less at high temperature, like 300 degrees or so. But castor is thicker and also has a high viscosity index, higher than mineral oil, but lower than synthetic. Still I suspect castor oil is slightly thicker at operating temp, which gives synthetic an edge on friction. But on lean runs castor oil breaks down into an even thicker oil which gives it an edge on protection. The varnish is an advantage also, but pure castor oil builds this varnish up a bit too rapid, requiring occasional cleaning of the inside of the engine. Also there has been great advance with synthetic oils, but only with those oils used in gas and turbine engines. We are using the same synthetic oils invented 30 years ago. I understand there are some new oils in Europe but it remains to be seen that they are truely a superior oil, or that they are enviornmentally safe. If they are using similar oils as jet turbine oils they may be harmful to your health.


Hey guys, use what ever oil you like. I'll do just the same here

The low friction with Aerosave/Aerosynth2 & Motul Micro compared to Castrol M & Klotz Benol is not a myth. It is a tested fact.
I do not know how much the readers of this know about tribology but I have tested it myself using correspondent surface pairs used in modern motors.
I can tell you that castor has no change.

I should have kept a friends messed YS 120 AC that had its piston seize. The piston actually fractured and broke into two pieces. The fuel was degummed castor 20% + 10 % nitro, rest methanol. The reason, however was not friction. The regulator got clogged and it lost all lubrication just like that when full power was applied. The owner of that engine never used castor again. The diaphram itself was not harmed, but there are tiny little passages in an YS that got clogged.

Maybe it would be a good idea to add a drop of castor or two in running in phase. With synthetic running in takes ages as surfaces wear so little.

ini

PS. Secret: (do not tell anyone) that no power on earth thing was sort of a joke
But maybe that environmental side of castor has to be given some thought

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       Post #: 101

RE: Castor oil - A final word? - 6/3/2004 8:40:52 PM   
Flyboy Dave



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Joined: 3/20/2002
From: San Bernardino County, CA, USA
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quote:

ORIGINAL: DarZeelon

Mike,

I wrote specifically elsewhere, that YS does not say not to use Castor oil at all.



The YS factory manual states quite clearly that castor may be used,
straight castor....if you like. The synthetic myth was created by a few people
and it ran amuck on the internet.

Dave.

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RE: Castor oil - A final word? - 6/3/2004 8:54:14 PM   
3d-aholic



Posts: 1992
Joined: 10/7/2003
From: Austin, TX, USA
Status: offline 		I have that same quote in my booklet. However, on the YS forum, they do in fact seem to be recommending against straight or large percentages of castor as well.

However, I don't suspect that YS 4 strokes are really any different than any other 4 stroke. Castor works....but a lot of castor creates a lot of coking and is much dirtier internally in a 4 stroker....with all its extra moving parts. The trade off of extra friction protection weighs heavy against the negative effects of coke and guming up of values and pushrods which is also detrimental to the engine.

Take (2) 4 strokes, run one at 100% synth and another at 100% castor and pull the value cover off after 50 flights. For a 2 stroke engine, some castor is mighty cheap insurance.

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RE: Castor oil - A final word? - 6/3/2004 8:57:29 PM   
Sport_Pilot



Posts: 7652
Joined: 1/21/2002
From: Acworth, GA, USA
Status: online
quote:

With synthetic running in takes ages as surfaces wear so little.


Another myth. Their is little differance in friction between any liquid lubricant. The differance is viscosity and viscosity index, the thickness of the fluid and the, amount the fluid thins due to heat. The thinner the fluid the less friction. A good example wound be an air bearing. You know a ball floating

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RE: Castor oil - A final word? - 6/3/2004 9:08:30 PM   
Flyboy Dave



Posts: 13375
Joined: 3/20/2002
From: San Bernardino County, CA, USA
Status: offline 		The appearance of an engines internals is no indication of how well it
runs....or how long it will last. Some synthetic burning engines can
look clean as a pin....and have rusty bearings !

On the other hand....a castor burning engine can look terrible inside....
all brown and sticky looking....however, it will run that way for 15-20
years.

You cant judge a sister by looking at her brother....
you cant judge a book....by looking at the cover.

Bo Diddley.



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       Post #: 105

RE: Castor oil - A final word? - 6/3/2004 9:17:48 PM   
3d-aholic



Posts: 1992
Joined: 10/7/2003
From: Austin, TX, USA
Status: offline 		Well I would agree with except if the values get coked up and sticky...the motor performance will go down. If you are willing to get in there and clean it more often than underneath the dirt, will be clean metal.

I just cleaned mine after switching from straight synth to some synth/castor mix (because of the laziness of mixing up separate fuels and it was mess). The values were so coked up...and the result was even particulate looking on the valves. Before that I had been using straight synth and had not seen that.

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RE: Castor oil - A final word? - 6/3/2004 10:34:23 PM   
SwampFlier-RCU



Posts: 1064
Joined: 1/22/2002
From: La CeibaAtlantida, HONDURAS
Status: offline 		Sport pilot and oteher people nailed the issue:

MOst Modelers in the US and surounding areas (such as myself) DO NOT have the advantage of Aerosynth and other synthetic oils tha JAKA, INI and other european friends can use so this side of the Atlantic is lubrcity challenged or oilied discapacitated (choose your charity ).... and therefore are discussing and comparing apples and ... figs
Since I live in neutral ground (Honduras) and are not restricted by neither environmental laws, customs or oil companies to test any materials...
I leekly offer myself as official tester of castor and synthetic oils.. so please send me any quantities of either oil by itself be it synthetic or degummed casto or in lieu of this any quantitiy of your favorite brand of fuel and i will happily test it in the course of the season....


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RE: Castor oil - A final word? - 6/4/2004 4:32:19 AM   
Jim Thomerson



Posts: 2792
Joined: 10/9/2002
From: Austin, TX, USA
Status: offline 		I've seen a liquid you spray on your lawn to keep moles away. It is mostly castor oil. I suppose they use a superior synthetic in Europe (Are there moles in Europe?)

Jim

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RE: Castor oil - A final word? - 6/4/2004 1:34:25 PM   
DarZeelon



Posts: 6984
Joined: 4/9/2003
From: Rosh-Ha'Ayin, ISRAEL
Status: online 		Please see what Dave (Hobbsy) entered in this thread in the Diesel forum.
It is about the same Castor oil subject discussed here and appeared in the late George Aldrich's web site.

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RE: Castor oil - A final word? - 6/4/2004 2:40:32 PM   
Wayne Miller


 

Posts: 969
Joined: 9/10/2003
From: DrumboOntario, CANADA
Status: offline 		Hi Dar,

Thanks for the info. By the way, I like the end of the post (signature).

Best regards,

Wayne Miller

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RE: Castor oil - A final word? - 6/4/2004 9:03:21 PM   
Ernie Misner


 

Posts: 3154
Joined: 7/5/2002
From: Tacoma, WA, USA
Status: offline 		Will someone please enlighten me as to why European synthetic oils would be any better than Klotz synthetic???????

Please hurry with an answer because I can't sleep ~

Ernie

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RE: Castor oil - A final word? - 6/4/2004 9:16:28 PM   
William Robison



Posts: 20269
Joined: 11/10/2002
From: Mary Esther, Florida, FL, USA
Status: offline 		Ernie:

I really think if they were really any better Klotz would be selling them. With the Klotz name on them, of course.

In my opinion the Europeans just yell louder.

Haw.

Bill.

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RE: Castor oil - A final word? - 6/4/2004 11:04:24 PM   
Motorbrain



Posts: 110
Joined: 4/19/2004
From: Southern, CA, USA
Status: offline 		I've seen the synthetic Groupies touting the wondrous qualities of
the magic oils for years. After all the yelling, flag waving, the gnashing
of teeth, ect., I've not seen one scintilla of evidence to back up one
word of so their called facts.

Ever.

MB.

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RE: Castor oil - A final word? - 6/4/2004 11:15:04 PM   
3d-aholic



Posts: 1992
Joined: 10/7/2003
From: Austin, TX, USA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Motorbrain

I've seen the synthetic Groupies touting the wondrous qualities of
the magic oils for years. After all the yelling, flag waving, the gnashing
of teeth, ect., I've not seen one scintilla of evidence to back up one
word of so their called facts.

Ever.

MB.


So I'm guess'n this is NOT the final word then.

< Message edited by 3d-aholic -- 6/4/2004 6:46:22 PM >

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RE: Castor oil - A final word? - 6/4/2004 11:29:37 PM   
XJet


 

Posts: 3347
Joined: 3/31/2003
From: Tokoroa, NEW ZEALAND
Status: offline 		Just to add another datapoint -- back in the 1970's-80's I used to use Castrol MSSR synthetic oil with my model engines.

I never had any lube-related failures and it seemed to work okay (although I did notice some minor piston scuffing on most of my engines). These engines included Cox 049s, Fox 15, OS20, OS25, OS45FSR, HP21 and a few others.

After a 20 year retirement from modelling, I was very surprised to find out that despite the significant advances in other areas of synthetic lubes, the same old MSSR was still Castrol's only offering for use with methanol.

This means that MSSR (and possibly many of the other synthetic model engine lubes) were either very advanced for their time when introduced, or are 25-year-old technology.

It was worth noting that when I took a tired old Cox and tried to run it with synthetic oil (Coolpower) it would hardly keep running and was very inconsistent in its power output (it wasn't overheating though). Switching to a 100% castor fuel turned that engine into a totally different animal -- strong and consistent.

20-year-old synthetic works, modern synthetic works, castor works -- but different engines seem to like different oils or blends thereof.

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       Post #: 115