Castor oil - A final word?  
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Castor oil - A final word? - 5/29/2004 6:30:41 PM   
William Robison



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From: Mary Esther, Florida, FL, USA
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From Clarence Lee, engine clinic column, page 72, in the July 2004 issue of RCM:
quote:

Contrary to what some of the synthetic oil manufacturers would have you believe, a synthetic oil has yet to be produced that can equal castor oil for high temperature or lean run protection. Hence, many of the synthetic oils have a small amount of castor or other high temperature additives added. Most of your synthetic oils have a flash point in the 450F range which is the point where the oil vapors ignite and go up in smoke. Klotz synthetic has one of the highest flash points of 510F. Castor, on the other hand, has a flash point of 535F, and upon burning, leaves a varnish or glaze that further protects the moving parts. This is something the synthetics do not do and just adding more synthetic oil will not be a substitute for the benefits of castor, especially on those lean metal melting runs fellows oftentimes subject their engines to.

I couldn't say ti any better, although I've tried many times right here on RCU.

Bill.

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RE: Castor oil - A final word? - 5/29/2004 9:44:25 PM   
ZAGNUT



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From: tel-aviv, ISRAEL
Status: offline 		i guess he knows his oils.....too bad he don't know how to calculate compression ratio. don't remember the issue# but he basically said to take the cylinder volume plus the combustion chamber volume and divide this by the combustion chamber volume.....???? guess it means that the compression ratios he lists in his reviews are worthless



dave

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RE: Castor oil - A final word? - 5/29/2004 9:53:50 PM   
Richard39


 

Posts: 444
Joined: 12/17/2002
From: Birmingham, AL, USA
Status: offline 		Ah, maybe he made a mistake? But I for one will not cast the first stone.... for I live in a glass house... take care guys ... be nice...

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RE: Castor oil - A final word? - 5/29/2004 9:56:24 PM   
William Robison



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Status: offline 		Dave:

When you figure compression ratio using the swept volume of the cylinder you're getting the real number, as used by engineers for many years. And as still used by Clarence Lee.

In a two stroke, it is becoming the fashion to figure c/r using the remaining swept volume from the point of exhaust port closure. But it's still meaningless if you don't know the port timings, the exhaust resonance for tuning, what fuel mixis to be used, the rpm range, and several more little items that affect the engine run.

C/R by itself really doesn't mean a lot. Even on a four stroke engine the inlet valve normally stays oopen past BDC, so should we start rating the 4s engines from the point of inlet closing lag?

Bill.

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RE: Castor oil - A final word? - 5/29/2004 10:28:58 PM   
ZAGNUT



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From: tel-aviv, ISRAEL
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quote:

ORIGINAL: William Robison

C/R by itself really doesn't mean a lot.


true, but it is a useful measurement (along with all the others) when comparing different engines. but if those different engines are reviewed by different people using different methods then measurements are all but useless. i prefer dave gierke's reviews that include both geometric and effective C/Rs.

maybe what mr. lee wrote was a simple mistake...but i just felt like having a bit of fun


dave

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RE: Castor oil - A final word? - 5/29/2004 11:08:41 PM   
William Robison



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From: Mary Esther, Florida, FL, USA
Status: offline 		Dave:

You just have to be sure you're comparing apples with apples. It's just plain hard to compare an Apple Mac with a real computer.

Speaking of which, have you seen the latest Mac? The iPot?

Haw.

(You said you wanted a little fun.)

Bill.

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RE: Castor oil - A final word? - 5/30/2004 12:51:25 AM   
Don M.



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From: Halifax, NS, CANADA
Status: offline 		Bill, who died and made Clarence Lee the Boss ??????

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RE: Castor oil - A final word? - 5/30/2004 2:07:09 AM   
William Robison



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I don't know that anyone died and made Lee the "Boss," but he has enough experience and design history (one of his deigns is still being produced) to make me listen to him.

And the temperature numbers aren't dependent on anyone being boss, they're fact, not opinion.

Besides, he agrees with me and that automatically makes him an expert.

Haw.

Bill.

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RE: Castor oil - A final word? - 5/30/2004 2:23:30 AM   
Don M.



Posts: 1732
Joined: 3/2/2004
From: Halifax, NS, CANADA
Status: offline 		Just trying to rattle you old sock, you know my views on castor oil (I think) !!!!!! To me it's like carrying 2 spare tires instead of one, I can live with the few times I have 2 flats and save the hassles (mess) of carrying the extra spare (using castor).

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RE: Castor oil - A final word? - 5/30/2004 2:45:12 AM   
blvdbuzzard



Posts: 1379
Joined: 6/16/2002
From: boulevard, CA, USA
Status: offline 		The one thing I have found that castor doeas that the synthetic oils do not, is if you run them and leave them without after run oil for a long time, the castor creates a varnish that protects the insides of the engine. One of my heilcopter engines that I ran only full synthetic oils in got wasted from setting on the shelf for a while. It was rusted like I put it in salt water. Never had that happen with all castor oils.

Dru.

P.S. I have been around long enough to remember when fuels only had cator.

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RE: Castor oil - A final word? - 5/30/2004 2:59:10 AM   
Kmot



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From: Northridge, CA, USA
Status: offline 		Castor oil is just a conspiracy of a bunch of old geezers trying to give everyone else the runs! Oh wait.... be right back!

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RE: Castor oil - A final word? - 5/30/2004 3:14:12 AM   
William Robison



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Status: offline 		TomK:

Good one.

Bill.

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Castor Oil - Bulk Suppliers? - 5/30/2004 3:19:25 AM   
martyg



Posts: 499
Joined: 6/23/2002
From: Garland, TX, USA
Status: offline 		What are the industrial uses for Castor oil? I need to find a supplier in gallon quantities to feed my Moki.
What types of supply houses would likely carry this stuff over the counter?
I'm in the big city (DFW) so everything is close by - Just need to know where to look, who to ask.

My best option right now is $26/gal for Sig castor at the hobby shop.
Not keen on paying shipping on 30lb boxes if I can avoid it.
Not keen on paying $8 for a Pint of Klotz Benol either.

Any suggestions?

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RE: Castor oil - A final word? - 5/30/2004 3:23:39 AM   
blw



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Status: offline 		Bill,

You may know engines, but you don't know much about computers judging your remarks about them.

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RE: Castor Oil - Bulk Suppliers? - 5/30/2004 3:38:25 AM   
downunder



Posts: 3116
Joined: 10/10/2002
From: Adelaide, AUSTRALIA
Status: offline 		Hmmm...what else can I say except I agree with both Clarence Lee and Bill on both the castor and compression issues???

Oh OK...I'll add one more thing then. Flash point is where the vapours at the surface of the oil ignite and go out until more vapour is formed. Fire point is when the oil is hot enough to have sustained burning until it's all gone. For synthetics this is about 20F hotter than its flash point but castor has a fire point of about 850F. So a droplet of synthetic will reach it's fire point very quickly and burn away while a droplet of castor may never reach its fire point.

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RE: Castor oil - A final word? - 5/30/2004 3:44:36 AM   
William Robison



Posts: 20269
Joined: 11/10/2002
From: Mary Esther, Florida, FL, USA
Status: offline 		Barry:

My aversion to the Mac line goes all the way back to the Lisa. Remember that one?

I first worked with EDPM in 1956 on the 400 series IBMs, which we upgraded to a 701, and more upgrades came later. Then I discovered minis, my first (literally) home computer was a Litton ABS 1241 in 1972. The size of three office desks, when I switched it on the lights in the house would dim momentarily. Replaced that one with a PDP-8, later went to the PDP-11 machines. Last DEC was an LSI-11/780.

Then the micros. Had an Apple II and an Apple II+, but when I discovered CP/M the kids got free access to the Apples. And I never have had any regrets about staying on the "Intel" side since.

I still look at the Macs now and then, now that Jobs is back and OSX having Unix as the core I might be tempted. But I can fire my Intel box up with Linux if I get too homesick for the old minis, I just can't see limiting myself to the Macs. No matter what you can do there, there is software to do the same thing on an Intel box, and it is going to be a hell of a lot cheaper, if not actually free.

My comments on computers are based on experience, sir, a lot of it.

But the "iPot" was supposed to be a joke, not something to be taken seriously.

Bill.

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