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Tracker II - 6/2/2004 5:09:09 PM   
neuronaa


 

Posts: 8
Joined: 6/2/2004
From: Sayre, PA, USA
Status: offline 		Is anyone having trouble with range using Tracker II? I have had 3 had crashes due to loss of signal on 3 different FMA reciever types each less than one year old on 2 different frequencies at 2 different locations all at ranges of less than 750 feet. Two planes were glow and one electric.

My tracker was subsequently recently (2 wks ago) updated since but still seems to have limited ground range, about 50-60 feet with the antenna collapsed. How much should I expect?
       Post #: 1

RE: Tracker II - 6/2/2004 5:30:39 PM   
flycatch


 

Posts: 347
Joined: 7/24/2002
From: Barstow, CA, USA
Status: offline 		I would send the transmitter back to Polks immediately. Also supply them with one of the FMA receivers involved in one of the crashes. They will stand behind there products.

(in reply to neuronaa)
       Post #: 2

RE: Tracker II - 6/3/2004 2:24:33 PM   
neuronaa


 

Posts: 8
Joined: 6/2/2004
From: Sayre, PA, USA
Status: offline 		Update on range problem. I may not be the Tracker.
The Tracker II was returned last week from Polk's with updated V1.35 software and minor mechanical repairs completed successfully and promptly. It was sent with the above range problem description. Unfortunately there was no comment about this later problem from the repairman.
Last night with a bunch of the boys at the flying field I carried out further range testing. With help a M5 and FS5 FMA recievers were shown to have a range check of about 50+feet with the tracker on channels 16 and 34. Then with a friends Futaba 8 channel the Tracker was tuned to its channel 43 and checked good to 200+ feet!
Subsequently with a jig made from an old engine test stand I checked 6 more FMA recievers, one Extreme 5, 3 M5's one with +shift, and 2 FS5's, all of which began failing at about 65 feet, the FS5's going to failsafe at that distance on various channels including 12, 16 and 34. Various nodes of failure could be demonstrated by moving further away slowly with complete failure at about 120ft.
A Hitec 555, however, showed excellent range to 200+ feet (up a 130 foot driveway, across the street and backed up against a neighbors garage door for a direct line of sight) on channel 12 with a small failure node at about 120 feet. Testing was stopped as I had no other recievers, it was raining and I ran out of AAA batteries for the flashlight attached to the test servo. Clearly I wil need to borrow some other brands of recievers and strictly quantitate distances before reaching any final conclusions.
Neuronaa

(in reply to flycatch)
       Post #: 3

RE: Tracker II - 6/4/2004 6:34:21 PM   
No Stick


 

Posts: 141
Joined: 3/22/2003
From: South West, OH, USA
Status: offline 		What did FMA say when you contacted them?

< Message edited by No Stick -- 6/4/2004 1:35:01 PM >

_____________________________

Ed

(in reply to neuronaa)
       Post #: 4

RE: Tracker II - 6/4/2004 9:53:51 PM   
Montague



Posts: 4653
Joined: 4/19/2002
From: Laurel, MD,
Status: offline 		That's odd. I'm using some FMA extreme 4 and 5 RX's as well as hitec 555's in my combat planes. I don't notice any differnece between them, range wise. However, the FMA RX's do seem more prone to failure due to impact or vibration. Also, the FMA antennas are much smaller wire, so they are easier to break. If it was just one or two FMA RX's, I'd say you had some broken antennas. But I find it hard to believe they all have broken antennas, so I don't know what's going on there.


_____________________________

Kirk Montague Adams
RCCA 560

(in reply to No Stick)
       Post #: 5

RE: Tracker II - 6/4/2004 11:38:56 PM   
Cajun


 

Posts: 305
Joined: 4/21/2002
From: Nacogdoches, Tx
Status: offline 		I've used my Tracker with the Seeker, Hitec, Airtronics, and Futaba with out range problems.

I have seen on the forums others having problems with FMA receivers, but personally have not used them. I know Kirk has not had problems with them.

The new cheap Futaba transmitters do give me cause for alarm as most of them will not range check 65 feet. In all fairness to Futaba, I have not had problems with these units in the air, but when instructing a newbie with his brand new gear, I shudder when I see these short range checks.

Cajun

(in reply to Montague)
       Post #: 6

RE: Tracker II - 6/5/2004 5:41:27 PM   
neuronaa


 

Posts: 8
Joined: 6/2/2004
From: Sayre, PA, USA
Status: offline 		I have not yet contacted FMA or Polk's directly because of a lack of time and firm information.

Further range checks with the Tracker and a Futaba Skysport 4ch transmitter reveal an extraordinary number of variables including humidity, direction and nearby objects. Small nodes of partial failure are present at short distances probably representing standing waves and nodes. In general the Seeker and a Hitec 555 are much more relieable over open distances.

I have flown successfully the FMA receivers at good distances with the cheap Futaba without noticeable problems while the Tracker was in for repairs. I have been afraid to try the Tracker again due to previous devastation and currently short range checks.

The Hitec 555 shows however much better range mounted in an electric brushless plane on a paved road in front of my house without wings using the Tracker. There was no problem with the Hitec to about 180ft in the same conditions that the FMA's failed at about 60-70ft. I have ordered a Berg reciever.

Of interest, the FMA website FAQ section mentions problems with the synthesized PPM Futaba 9ZS transmitters when used with the small FMA recievers. Seems there is a problem with phase locked loop synthesizers when FM modulation is used.

(in reply to Cajun)
       Post #: 7

RE: Tracker II - 6/9/2004 2:35:42 PM   
lewispolk


 

Posts: 85
Joined: 3/8/2003
From: Irvington, NJ,
Status: offline 		Send us your radio with an FMA receiver causing you problems. It might be an incompatility, but we need to check it out with our engineers. There is no problem with range with our new Seeker 6 receivers and we have had this range checked up to 850 feet so far.

All the best,
Lewis Polk

(in reply to neuronaa)
       Post #: 8

RE: Tracker II - 6/16/2004 2:38:45 PM   
Montague



Posts: 4653
Joined: 4/19/2002
From: Laurel, MD,
Status: offline 		I just received a reply from FMA about their FAQ and the synthesized TX's:

quote:

Dear Sir:

The FAQ is directed at the Futaba synthesized transmitters only. There are
no consistent problems interfacing to other brands of synthesized
transmitters including Polks and Hitec. The only issue that may occur with
the latter units is frequency accuracy. If the synthesized transmitter is
ever greater than 1.5 KHz off center frequency, it could present a problem.
You should be able to catch any such problem in normal range tests.

I will check the FAQ and clarify as required.

Thanks for the feedback.

Tim Marks
V.P. Engineering/Commercial Products
FMA, Inc.



_____________________________

Kirk Montague Adams
RCCA 560

(in reply to lewispolk)
       Post #: 9

RE: Tracker II - 6/16/2004 3:07:23 PM   
lewispolk


 

Posts: 85
Joined: 3/8/2003
From: Irvington, NJ,
Status: offline 		Dear All,

If you have such a problem then send your radio back to us to check the tuning. It's rare that a tx is not tuned supeer accurately as it's set by a computer chip, but we will confirm the settings for you at no charge. Just send it to us and we will ship it back to you at no shipping cost and do the checking.

All the best,
Lewis Polk

(in reply to Montague)
       Post #: 10

RE: Tracker II - 6/16/2004 5:26:59 PM   
Montague



Posts: 4653
Joined: 4/19/2002
From: Laurel, MD,
Status: offline 		Just a follow up, I'm not sure, and I certainly haven't checked this, but I'm under the impressin that the FMA 1.5khz is more selective than most RX's. So if there was something wrong with your TX causing to be just a hair off frequency, other RX's might work with it anyway, but the FMA might seem to have "trouble", when it's just doing it's job.

If it was me, I'd do like Mr. Polk suggests, send the TX in, just to make sure everything is ok.


_____________________________

Kirk Montague Adams
RCCA 560

(in reply to lewispolk)
       Post #: 11

RE: Tracker II - 6/16/2004 5:47:00 PM   
neuronaa


 

Posts: 8
Joined: 6/2/2004
From: Sayre, PA, USA
Status: offline 		I am still gathering test data in a myriad of conditions before coming to any conclusions. At this point the problem seems to be in the receivers, manifesting alarming jitter at about 50-60ft, sometimes less, in some conditions tho this opinion is subject to change. Under various conditions there does NOT seem to be a substantial difference between the performance of the Tracker II and a Futaba Skysport 4 on channels 16 or 34. I have seen a JR setup act the same way for someone who seemed happy with the performance.
It makes a big difference if the receiver antennas are oriented horizontal or vertical, straight out, when the transmitter antennas are collapsed and held horizontal or vertical with the biggest difference occurring when the receiver antennas are horizontal within 2ft of the ground. Testing with the transmitter antenna extended has been impractical so far. This is in a jig, one servo only connected, but being in a plane seems about the same.
I am beginning "smoke" tests, a motorized glider having been OK, so far. I plan on a second opinion if there are any problems.
There seems to be a lot of opinions on how to perform range tests. I have not yet found a good reference.

(in reply to lewispolk)
       Post #: 12

RE: Tracker II - 6/28/2004 5:44:37 PM   
neuronaa


 

Posts: 8
Joined: 6/2/2004
From: Sayre, PA, USA
Status: offline 		Further testing continues to reveal alarming jitter with FMA M5 and FS5 as well as the Berg 5 DSP and Hitec when tested either in a plane or jig with the receiver antenna horizontal and the transmitter antenna collapsed in a vertical orientation. This first appears at about 65 feet and seems to have a hysteresis as once provoked it will frequently reappear at much shorter distances, especially around 25ft., this being the alarming feature. The jitter is very sensitive to the transmitter orientation, and most obvious if the transmitter is held in a normal flying position.
It does not appear if the receivers are tested as suggested in the FMA manuals, receiver suspended from the antennas about 2ft above the ground. Ranges of 200ft + are consistent with all dual conversion receivers and transmitter (Tracker II and SkySport 4) combinations and frequencies.
Flight testing the FMA receivers in slow planes such as the Ascent glider or Formosa seems to go ok. My new stress test is flying out about 700 ft. then collapsing the transmitters' antennas. This does find a defined endpoint. Upon landing the above jittering is again present on the ground. There is again little if any perceptible difference between the Tracker II and the Futaba transmitters under these conditions. Thus, to date, it appears I may be nervous over a normal situation, however.
The jitter appears rather more prominent than that mentioned in the Berg manual.

(in reply to neuronaa)
       Post #: 13

RE: Tracker II - 6/28/2004 6:21:37 PM   
Montague



Posts: 4653
Joined: 4/19/2002
From: Laurel, MD,
Status: offline 		Sounds stupid, but are there burried power lines or maybe something else under ground where you are testing? I don't know the frequency of cable TV signals, for example, or a DSL line, if you are testing at home. (at my house, the utilites come in through the front yard, only a few feet deep. How I know where they are and how deep they are is another story). For that matter, anything big and metal?

Anyway, your results are "good" in the sense that in the air, your range is pretty darn good from what you describe, and consistanly that way. I do agree the ground tests are strange though. All my range checks have been with the gear mounted in a plane, usually antenna run horizontally to the top of the vertical stab, giving it some distance over the ground and a slight up angle.

Thanks for the update. Interesting stuff, that's for sure.


_____________________________

Kirk Montague Adams
RCCA 560

(in reply to neuronaa)
       Post #: 14

RE: Tracker II - 7/14/2004 10:39:37 PM   
neuronaa