RE: Saito 72 vs. O.S. 70 Surpass  
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RE: Saito 72 vs. O.S. 70 Surpass - 6/25/2004 11:40:25 PM   
jongurley



Posts: 2798
Joined: 4/24/2003
From: Goldsboro, NC, USA
Status: offline 		I agree on some of the opinions, but I guess my main issue is reliability, being a float plane I will be flying off of a 600ft x 35ft pond, with bushes and fields all around, I would prefer not to deadstick,,, so ,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, reliability is my main goal,, any comments

(in reply to JimTrainor)
       Post #: 26

RE: Saito 72 vs. O.S. 70 Surpass - 6/25/2004 11:53:28 PM   
William Robison



Posts: 20269
Joined: 11/10/2002
From: Mary Esther, Florida, FL, USA
Status: offline 		Jon:

I don't think you'll find anyone to say that one is better than the other from a standpoint of reliability.

The OS will wear in faster, but to me that means it will also wear out faster.

And on the water weight counts even more than on land.

Saito. The lighter way to go.

Bill.

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RE: Saito 72 vs. O.S. 70 Surpass - 6/26/2004 12:56:17 AM   
Sport Flyer



Posts: 406
Joined: 12/5/2001
From: Portage La Prairie, MB, CANADA
Status: offline 		I guess with each manufacturer there will be jems and lemons, I guess, BUT with my OS 70 its really just this easy!

(in reply to William Robison)
       Post #: 28

RE: Saito 72 vs. O.S. 70 Surpass - 6/26/2004 1:27:37 AM   
blw



Posts: 4569
Joined: 3/15/2004
From: Auburn, AL, USA
Status: offline 		I'm only on my first 4 stroke, a Saito .56. I personally would wait a few years on any OS engine after the liner fiasco. I don't trust their QC or engineering decisions at this moment. It's my money and I'm waiting before getting another OS engine. There are plenty of other engines in the meantime.....

(in reply to Sport Flyer)
       Post #: 29

RE: Saito 72 vs. O.S. 70 Surpass - 6/26/2004 1:27:40 AM   
William Robison



Posts: 20269
Joined: 11/10/2002
From: Mary Esther, Florida, FL, USA
Status: offline 		SF:

Looks like you have a LOT of practice starting that engine. And I can not believe you didn't have it running shortly before starting the tape rolling for your demo. Or at least fueled the plane and primed the engine.

I don't get a lot of practice with the Saito engines. Just start them once per flight. They don't give me the opportunity to restart often. I suppose I should begin shutting the engines down three or four times before each flight so I can get more practice starting.

Haw.

Kidding you, of course, but it seldom takes more than eight or ten seconds (electric starter) to start the Saito on the first run of the day, restarts seldom take more than two as I don't have to force the fuel up.

Bill.

_____________________________

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(in reply to Sport Flyer)
       Post #: 30

RE: Saito 72 vs. O.S. 70 Surpass - 6/26/2004 2:07:14 AM   
Sport Flyer



Posts: 406
Joined: 12/5/2001
From: Portage La Prairie, MB, CANADA
Status: offline 		Bill, that OS was cold. I primed it with about ten prop flips holding my finger on the exhaust. I then turned the camera on and the rest is what you see. Btw, total run time on that engine was only 3 or 4 tanks before that video. It is one cherry engine. I guess it doesn't hurt that I own other OS and Enya 4 strokes in getting to know what they like, but I am very impressed with that 70.

(in reply to William Robison)
       Post #: 31

RE: Saito 72 vs. O.S. 70 Surpass - 6/26/2004 2:39:44 AM   
William Robison



Posts: 20269
Joined: 11/10/2002
From: Mary Esther, Florida, FL, USA
Status: offline 		SF:

The finger on the exhaust is why my first start takes so long too. Having to wait for the fuel to come up.

They all start easily when the set-up is correct.

I'm just not going to spend "OS Money" for a nickel plated cylinder. Sorry. No objection to their multis, their multi cylinder engines still have steel cylinders.

Bill.

< Message edited by William Robison -- 6/25/2004 8:40:40 PM >

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       Post #: 32

RE: Saito 72 vs. O.S. 70 Surpass - 6/26/2004 3:53:05 AM   
ifixairplanes


 

Posts: 1513
Joined: 12/28/2003
From: haverhill, MA, USA
Status: offline 		last weekend i had to resort to flipping my OS .70 with a chicken stick. I didnt have a battery for my starter and ran my fuel pump from jumper cables on my truck. I never did this before with my .70, so i didnt know what to expect. I turned on the plane, opened up the throttle, put my finger over the exhaust and flipped the prop through 3 or 4 compression strokes. I then returned throttle to idle, put on glow stick, and flipped it once forwards with the chicken stick. it coughed, and spun backwards for a few seconds then died. I then flipped it backwards and it then sprung to life. now i just flip it once backwards and she revs up! i have a little over 1 1/2 gallons through my OS .70, still fairly new. It is on its original plug i broke it in with, and has NEVER died on me after it has started. I have never deadsticked, and never had it die after idling for a long time. it will idle at 1800 RPM all day long and never miss a beat. Throttle response is instantaneous from idle to full. I put full trust in this engine. I do not worry about it dieing when i hover on the deck, i do not worry about it dieing after going to as high as i can see, then spinning it all the way down to the ground. It pulls my 6lb funtana to the moon, hovers with good pull out and ALWAYS hold a tune. I have tuned the low end once, and the high end twice. Once for breakin, extra rich, then i leaned it out a little more after i broke it in. i have not touched the needles since then. OS all the way baby!
it will turn the 14x4W prop at more then 10,000RPM, but i keep it tuned to around 10,000 so i know its rich. has a nice smoke trail at full throttle when ripping holes in the sky
sean

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(in reply to William Robison)
       Post #: 33

RE: Saito 72 vs. O.S. 70 Surpass - 6/26/2004 4:18:24 AM   
JimTrainor


 

Posts: 1308
Joined: 10/25/2002
From: Ontario, ON, CANADA
Status: offline 		The Surpass 70 cylinder liner is steel, same as the multis, no?

http://www2.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin/WTI0095P?FVSEARCH=OSMG5358&FVPROFIL=++
http://www2.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin/wti0001p?&I=LXCL12&P=Z

(in reply to ifixairplanes)
       Post #: 34

RE: Saito 72 vs. O.S. 70 Surpass - 6/26/2004 4:20:25 AM   
William Robison



Posts: 20269
Joined: 11/10/2002
From: Mary Esther, Florida, FL, USA
Status: offline 		Sean:

At this moment I have in the house six Saito engines, and four OS engines. Only one of the OS engines is a nickel plated version.

From these ten engines I have had only one dead stick other than running them out of fuel. The dead stick was my very first flight on my very first Saito. My fault, I didn't have it adjusted properly. I have since learned how to set them.

I will not be surprised if the nickel OS shells its liner the very next time I run it, but I will admit it may never do so. But that lack of faith is why I will never again use OS single cylinder engines on a twin.

Have to admit I am highly tempted to get an OS "Pegasus" four cylinder engine. Then build a 1/3 scale Mooney "Mite" to show off the engine. Everybody has a J-3 Cub or similar, the Mite is a rarely modeled plane, the cylinders hanging out in the breeze would make something out of the ordinary.

Bill.

_____________________________

Real Airplanes have Two Engines
AMA 25139 - More than 40 years.

(in reply to ifixairplanes)
       Post #: 35

RE: Saito 72 vs. O.S. 70 Surpass - 6/26/2004 4:30:37 AM   
William Robison



Posts: 20269
Joined: 11/10/2002
From: Mary Esther, Florida, FL, USA
Status: offline 		Jim:

Sure does say steel, doesn't it?

But their ads and catalogue also claim some of the two strokes are ABC, when they are known to be ABN.

Bill.

_____________________________

Real Airplanes have Two Engines
AMA 25139 - More than 40 years.

(in reply to William Robison)
       Post #: 36

RE: Saito 72 vs. O.S. 70 Surpass - 6/26/2004 5:12:10 AM   
ifixairplanes


 

Posts: 1513
Joined: 12/28/2003
From: haverhill, MA, USA
Status: offline 		hehe. OS uses the acronym of ABC still, which to them means "Advanced Bimetallic Construction". Just a way to fool us I think. I also have never owned a saito, so i am biased to OS in that way. A good friend of mine purchased a saito 82, under my persuasion (sp) because of what i heard about it from RCU, and I must say that is one hell of a powerful engine! I have nothing against saito and would buy one in a heart beat. I have heard nothing but good about them. I was just telling you guys of my experience with my OS 70. its a great engine, but Saito makes one hell of an engine too.
its a toss up, ethier way i see it you will end up with a damn good engine.

sean

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RE: Saito 72 vs. O.S. 70 Surpass - 6/26/2004 7:51:18 AM   
HondaCRX



Posts: 330
Joined: 11/10/2003
From: Lake Worth, FL, USA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: William Robison
From these ten engines I have had only one dead stick other than running them out of fuel. The dead stick was my very first flight on my very first Saito. My fault, I didn't have it adjusted properly. I have since learned how to set them.

I will not be surprised if the nickel OS shells its liner the very next time I run it, but I will admit it may never do so. But that lack of faith is why I will never again use OS single cylinder engines on a twin.

Have to admit I am highly tempted to get an OS "Pegasus" four cylinder engine. Then build a 1/3 scale Mooney "Mite" to show off the engine. Everybody has a J-3 Cub or similar, the Mite is a rarely modeled plane, the cylinders hanging out in the breeze would make something out of the ordinary.

Bill.


Bill,

out of the few dozen 4 stroke engines ive cleaned and rebuilt for people (one was a saito), none of the os 4 strokes had plated liners. and all of those engines were in for clogged exhaust .. people should really run wildcat 15% synthetic fuel to avoid shrinking their exhaust pipe diameter

I have a .91 surpass on a world models super chipmunk, those os engines WILL start in one flip with two priming flips, then continues to run super reliably through the remainder of the tank, the 1.60 FX is the same way. on the contrary with my dads saito .72 which (on a multitude of fuels, props, plugs, etc... ) refuses to run reliably, and also wont hold an exhaust deflector on! lmao......

I also have an old surpass .52 with ~400 flights on it..... well, its due for a rebuild of course , but back in the day when the number of flights on that engine was in the two digit range, it would out perform my dads old saito .56 in every aspect, RPM, Reliability, fuel economy, effort in starting, etc. he finaly sold the saito and the H9 Aresti that it was mounted on, and bought a creek hobbies katana with an OS 1.60 FX!!! I quote him..... "this is by far the most reliable engine ever made!". he always envied the way my OS engines would out do his saitos. now he bought a World Models Velox with a .91 surpass

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(in reply to William Robison)
       Post #: 38

RE: Saito 72 vs. O.S. 70 Surpass - 6/26/2004 8:17:48 AM   
William Robison



Posts: 20269
Joined: 11/10/2002
From: Mary Esther, Florida, FL, USA
Status: offline 		Dane:

My experience with four stroke engines has been the opposite. Extreme reliability and ease of operation with the Saitos, and constant fussing with the OS four strokes.

And Jim Trainor pointed me to the OS parts listings yesterday, the OS four stroke liners are listed as being steel. At least on the 70 and 91 singles, and the 1.60 twin.

Bill.

_____________________________

Real Airplanes have Two Engines
AMA 25139 - More than 40 years.

(in reply to HondaCRX)
       Post #: 39

RE: Saito 72 vs. O.S. 70 Surpass - 6/26/2004 8:38:59 AM