Need help from fellow Aussies, questions about mixing my own fuel and where can I buy.... (Full Version)

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RCRCRC -> Need help from fellow Aussies, questions about mixing my own fuel and where can I buy.... (6/24/2004 1:13:03 PM)

Hi everyone, I have a few questions about mixing my own fuel. I have a general idea about the ratio and what to use... etc, but I need some specific answers, I've just got into onroad nitro cars, so, sorry if I ask any stupid questions [:)]

I live in Sydney Australia, I own a Nitro TC3 with stock everything.

Now tell me if I'm wrong, ALL I NEED TO DO to mix my own fuel is to get some methanol, castor/synthtetic oil and some pure nitro and mix them in a ratio, am I right so far?

Does the ratio below sounds right for my car?

15% castor
5% synthetic
10% nitro
70% methanol

Hope I'm right so far. Now I need to ask all my fellow aussies in this forum, which brand and where I can get the above ingredients??
I suppose nitro can be bought from hobby shop, well thats what i've heard anyway.
But which oil is a good source of castor oil? I've heard ppl talking about Castrol M?? Does that comes like any other motor oil? Where can I get it in sydney??

What is a good source of synthetic oil? Where can I get them in sydney?

And finally, can I just buy any methanol?? I've heard that it is better to get aviation grade methanol? Is that true?

Thats all, sorry about the lengthy guestions, any help will be greatly appreciated [;)]



downunder -> RE: Need help from fellow Aussies, questions about mixing my own fuel and where can I buy.... (6/25/2004 3:34:02 AM)

Well I can't say for sure where to get the ingredients in Sydney but here in Adelaide we have a number of outlets for methanol and oil. Check to see if you have a Scotcher Petroleum depot there for methanol. Likewise, Caltex fuel depots (not the garage) have pure methanol (it's actually BP). Shell depots stock Shell A Racing fuel which has 3% acetone in it (a good thing) but you have to buy it in their 20 litre drums, no refills. So for methanol just look up fuel depots in the yellow pages and give a call first.

For Castrol M, my Caltex depot stocks it so I get both things at the one place. But I've also had the local auto parts place (Sprint Auto) get it in for me because they were Castrol dealers...no big deal, they just ordered it along with their next usual order. By the way, Castrol M is THE castor oil, it's the best. For synthetics you might have to get it from the hobby shop or if you know exactly what you want then maybe from a motorbike or gokart shop. I've never used it except for Mobil Jet Oil 2.

Likewise I don't use nitro at all...ever...but try a speed shop close to a drag strip. Someone else might be able to help you on that one.

That mix you mentioned should be fine, at least you've got plenty of oil in it.



RCRCRC -> RE: Need help from fellow Aussies, questions about mixing my own fuel and where can I buy.... (6/25/2004 4:54:24 AM)

thanx downunder, thats exactly what I wanted to know, thanx mate for all the info [:D]



russellk -> RE: Need help from fellow Aussies, questions about mixing my own fuel and where can I buy.... (6/26/2004 8:53:46 AM)

I'd give Aus-Torc Racing a call on 02 9821 1128 - they distribute methanol, nitro, synth (Klotz) & castor oil and the bloke I dealt with was very helpful. They can give you the location of the closest dealer to you in Sydney. I picked up a load from a mechanic in Paramatta - I think the connection was that they were heavily into drag racing.

Cost wise, I generally mix 15% Klotz KL200 oil with 3% castor and 10% nitro which works out at $4.70 a litre. 5% Nitro is about $4 a litre, 20% Nitro is $6.10.



RCRCRC -> RE: Need help from fellow Aussies, questions about mixing my own fuel and where can I buy.... (6/26/2004 11:05:56 AM)

russellk, do you have the contacts/ address of those places where you get all your ingredients in Parramatta? I live at Caterbury, so its not that far for me? Thanx mate [&:]



russellk -> RE: Need help from fellow Aussies, questions about mixing my own fuel and where can I buy.... (6/26/2004 11:28:58 AM)

Sorry, I don't - I picked up a whole heap last October - a 200l drum of methanol, 24l of oil and 10l of nitro, but I've lost the address of the mechanic I picked it up from.

I should mention that buying the 200l drum got the methanol price down to $0.93 a litre, which is pretty damn cheap, but I'd arranged to split it with a few mates from the flying field. Buying a 20l drum would have meant $1.75 a litre.

If you call the dude at Aus-Torc I'm sure he'll sort you out with locations - I think he was trying to increase the number of outlets for his fuel & oil. I noticed he's got HStore (http://www.hstore.com.au/ProductSearchFuels.asp) selling his pre-mixed VP Racing fuels now, so that's not a bad option, it actually compares pretty well with mixing your own if you factor in the cost of the container.

But on the other hand, mixing your own allows you to brew different mixes to see how they perform with different engines, or to see what RPM increase you get for an extra 10% nitro etc.



RCRCRC -> RE: Need help from fellow Aussies, questions about mixing my own fuel and where can I buy.... (6/26/2004 8:16:29 PM)

ok then, I'll give that guy a buzz, thanx for the help russellk :)



RCRCRC -> RE: Need help from fellow Aussies, questions about mixing my own fuel and where can I buy.... (6/26/2004 8:20:32 PM)

one other thing, which grade is the methanol that you've bought? I mean, how pure is it?



russellk -> RE: Need help from fellow Aussies, questions about mixing my own fuel and where can I buy.... (6/27/2004 12:45:10 AM)

The stuff is called Coogee Methanol - I've got no idea what the grade is, or how that's defined, I don't think there's anything meaningful on the label, but I'll check next time I'm near it.



sigrun -> RE: Need help from fellow Aussies, questions about mixing my own fuel and where can I buy.... (6/27/2004 1:50:49 AM)

Join a club. You'll be able to source all the ingredients you need from any club worthy of the name. They'll probably even have affordably priced premix available for the terminally indolent or stupid. That, a place to drive and camaraderie notwithstanding, the extra benefit is the information & experience which will be made available to you. Well worth the price of a (usually subsidised) junior sub.

As for brew, not being a car engine person, ask the experienced club members. As a generalisation and from the little I've seen of R/C cars, cooling is more critical by the very nature of R/C car engines so that running the right plug and brew is important - especially where upping the nitro content is concerned.

The need for castor is now a myth served by folklore. You can use it if you want, but why would you when synth is as cheap, cleaner and a superior lubricant except in engines emanating from the same era as the folklore - ie: not contemporary car engines.

If you must have it, Castrol M can be obtained from the Castrol depot out in the western burbs. You can get either Methanol or Shell A, both now at exorbitant prices in 20 litre drums from either the Shell refinery just east of Parramatta or any Shell depot. Most clubs will supply methanol at ½ that price (empty drum exchange) and in lesser quantities if required. You don't need methanol certified for aviation use (water/meth injection).

A baseline brew of 5% nitro, 20% oil & 70% methanol will be safe until you know what you're doing.

You can mail-order ingredients, but the dangerous goods surcharges will kill you. You don't say where you live, but Castle Hill hobbies (north-west), Kellets (south-west), 'Greedy's' er I mean ..'Wing's n Things (Gladesville, Kingsford 'n northern/beach suburbs) or H-Strore (online) can guide and supply you with what you want.

Easist to obtain synthetics for modelling use are Coolpower or Klotz. Beware pricing. H-Store's pricing is about right.



RCRCRC -> RE: Need help from fellow Aussies, questions about mixing my own fuel and where can I buy.... (6/27/2004 10:59:37 AM)

Thanx for the info sigrun, I think I'll get the shell A racing fuel.
I dont think I'll have the time to join a club, I'm only taking this nitro car thingy casually, perhaps in the future when I'm more serious about it, I'll find myself a club :)



sigrun -> RE: Need help from fellow Aussies, questions about mixing my own fuel and where can I buy.... (6/27/2004 9:50:48 PM)

NP. [8D]

JFYI Shell A (used to comprise 3% Acetone, 97% Methanol, but now includes a minuscule volume of upper cylinder lubricant) works very well in our engines engine, you'll pay through the nose for it. It is no better for our purposes than straight methanol, athough it's coloured a cool purple and the drum it comes in certainly looks the part. I used to use Shell A just for the convenience many many years ago when it was sensibly priced. Last I enquired, Shell A is now just under $70- a drum (20 litre) from the depot! Shell methanol had also risen from a reasonable $27- to an absurd $$48-. BP also do methanol BTW.

Best of all, as I mentioned you can buy methanol through most clubs (and better hobby shops who treat it like bread and milk selling it affordably to keep you coming in and buying high margin sundries such as glow plugs etc), for around $26 to $30 for the same volume (20 litre drum). Shell A is simply not worth > twice the price of a drum of methanol. ie: $3.50 per litre versus $1.50 per litre. That $2 difference per litre pays for your 10% nitro. (Nitro averages around the $20 per litre).

Have fun!



russellk -> RE: Need help from fellow Aussies, questions about mixing my own fuel and where can I buy.... (6/28/2004 2:47:40 AM)

I haven't checked his prices lately, but a month or two ago the Aus-Torc racing guy was flogging 20l of Methanol for $35, and I think his nitro was $15 a litre. His Klotz oil was $14.30 a litre. Again, I'd ring him and check as things might have changed due to the exchange rate.



RCRCRC -> RE: Need help from fellow Aussies, questions about mixing my own fuel and where can I buy.... (6/28/2004 3:19:38 AM)

ok, so in this case, I'll have to give that Aus-torc a call, I'll also check out my local BP service station.



russellk -> RE: Need help from fellow Aussies, questions about mixing my own fuel and where can I buy.... (6/28/2004 6:39:22 AM)

I don't think you'll have much luck at the local servo - methanol & nitro are specific to a very small range of racing & model engines and oils, like castor, that are compatible with methanol won't work with petrol, and 2-stroke oil for petrol engines won't dissolve properly in methanol.

If you want to find out about BP and other manufacturers, call the distributor and ask to speak to their technical consultant - they'll tell you what's in their fuels, and who is likely to have it in stock around Sydney. In Canberra it's generally only the distributor that keeps the specialised fuels in stock, however in Sydney you might find specialist drag and motorcycle racing shops that stock methanol and related oils.



XTRA230 -> RE: Need help from fellow Aussies, questions about mixing my own fuel and where can I buy.... (6/28/2004 9:09:27 AM)

hi buddy it is easy to buy the oil & methanol did you say you are in Canterbury Oil from kelletts hobbies in Liverpool Methanol from Whiteys Workshop in Fowler Rd Merrylands



RCRCRC -> RE: Need help from fellow Aussies, questions about mixing my own fuel and where can I buy.... (6/28/2004 10:42:29 AM)

ar... great thanks, I've actually heard about the Whiteys Workshop as well, so i'll go check it out.



eddiemans -> RE: Need help from fellow Aussies, questions about mixing my own fuel and where can I buy.... (7/8/2004 3:16:41 PM)

You could also check your local Penrite stockist for "Castor Race 40" which is a castor/synthetic blend as used in high rpm go-karts to 18,00rpm. the tech support guys at Penrite won't tell me the actual percentages but I haven't had any problems with my plane engines after using approx 16 litres in my mixes with 10% nitro.



Lancair-RCU -> RE: Need help from fellow Aussies, questions about mixing my own fuel and where can I buy.... (7/11/2004 11:47:14 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: sigrun

Best of all, as I mentioned you can buy methanol through most clubs (and better hobby shops who treat it like bread and milk selling it affordably to keep you coming in and buying high margin sundries such as glow plugs etc),


Our LHS must not be of the better variety. One charges like a wounded bull for the stuff he mixes up out the back and the other now only supplies the pre mixed AusTorc stuff at prices about 33% more than Hstore advertises. He went out of the homebrew due to too many complaints about his mixes.
Im going to have to buy bulk myself now, Ive just bought a YS for a pattern plane and want to do lots of practice soon. But getting it could prove almost as expensive around here. Does anyone know of where to get Coolpower low viscosity heli type oil and Nitro in Brisbane ? Im sure I can the Methanol from the BP distributor here in town, maybe Nitro too but at what cost I dont know, Ill make enquiries tomorrow.



Vortec -> RE: Need help from fellow Aussies, questions about mixing my own fuel and where can I buy.... (7/12/2004 8:00:59 AM)

Lancair,

last time i priced meth at the BP distributor in Lismore he wanted around $48-55 for a 20litre drum,and it was pure,no acetone.I wouldnt run that Castrol M, but you can get it in from BP at $69 for 4-5 litres..

These prices were from a few months ago but if you want to get a general idea,plus it would save the fuel cost of going to Brizzy.



Lancair-RCU -> RE: Need help from fellow Aussies, questions about mixing my own fuel and where can I buy.... (7/12/2004 11:24:14 AM)

Thanks Vortec,
I got quoted $37 for a 20L drum of methanol from BP here in Ballina today. $199 for a 200L drum but gotta find quite a few people wanting to buy some at that price and quantity. If we could find 5 people wanting to take 40L each we could do it. Had a very brief chat to our club president today, basically he said it was too expensive at the prices Id been quoted and wasnt interested, but flatly refused to let on where he was getting it for cheaper, also told me I was crazy for talking to DP about us buying bulk for cheaper than he sells it, he said I had a lot to learn about the politics of the club. [X(] Ive always found DP very easy to ask for lower prices or to at least price match. I dont think DP and our el presidentae get along that well. [8|]

The Low Viscosity Cool power I found out is $55.99 for 3.8L from Tates in Geelong, DP said hed get it in but wanted to be sure he'd sell a case of it as he has to buy by the case, 4 bottles I think. He also offered to sell me straight Nitro at $15.90 per litre, the guy down here offered at $14.60L plus whatever it costs for him to get it freighted up from Sydney. I got an offer for methanol for a bit cheaper, via a private message today, from someone in Brisbane and Im going there next week so will probably get some unless you can find 5 or more people wanting to share in 200L.



wldcwbypilot -> RE: Need help from fellow Aussies, questions about mixing my own fuel and where can I buy.... (7/13/2004 5:00:07 AM)

Hey you guys down under,

Cars require less oil in your solution, because the piston and cylinders are smaller. The car engines tend to load up if too much oil is used. Pre-mixed fuels here are about 12 to 13 percent by volume oil, 20 percent or greater nitro-methane also by volume and the rest is methanol.

In a 1 liter volume 12% oil and 20% nitro. The volumes should add up too 1000 ml.

12% oil = 120 ml
20% nitro = 200 ml
68% methanol = 680 ml

total 1000 ml

You may want to add a small percentage of ether to make the parts come together otherwise your fuel maybe like vinegar and oil salad dressing.

Have fun don't blow up your kitchen lab,
Will



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