RE: Pacific Aeromodels Edge 540T 40/70  
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  • All Forums >> Radios, Batteries, Clubhouse and more >> User Product Reviews >> RE: Pacific Aeromodels Edge 540T 40/70
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    RE: Pacific Aeromodels Edge 540T 40/70 - 3/11/2006 8:30:47 AM   
    FlyinTiger



    Posts: 642
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    From: Penn Valley, CA, USA
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    I switched to using digital servos on the elevators for exact centering since the elevators are so sensitive on the .40 sized Edge. Definitely DON'T use servos that are sloppy around the center, no matter what size they are, unless you don't mind chasing the plane around the sky.

    Another consideration...if you use digital mini-servos be careful about balancing the plane. You wouldn't want to have to add tail weight to get the plane to balance, especially if you are using a 4-stroke for power.

    Weight - the Edge comes out to 6.0 pounds using JR DS811 servos on the elevators and JR 537s everywhere else (all standard size servos), which is nice and light for a .40 sized plane with a YS .63 four stroke on it...

    The Edge flies light. When other people pick it up they say, "Man, that thing is light!" Don't sweat the servos, you'll be fine with something in a good standard sized case.

    _____________________________

    FlyinTiger

    (in reply to boosted180)
           Post #: 51

    RE: Pacific Aeromodels Edge 540T 40/70 - 3/11/2006 7:14:32 PM   
    boosted180


     

    Posts: 233
    Joined: 4/5/2004
    From: long beach, CA, USA
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    thanks for the input, flyintiger. the reason why i was concerned aobut the weight is b/c my magic extra is 4.5lbs, has a larger wing surface area and uses the same engine as the edge. so to me 6lbs. sounds like a lot. my world models ultimate is also 4.5lbs, has a smaller wing surface area and flies on the heavy side.

    i really like the light flying characteristics of the magic extra and wanted the edge to handle similarly. but i guess i'll just stick to standard servos to be on the safe side (they're also cheaper). do you think metal gears are necessary, or will nylon be fine?

    i'm in the process of putting the edge together now and after hinging the ailerons, i noticed that the hinge slots are not perfectly centered! apparently the factory did a poor job of slotting the hinges and the ailerons now dont match up perfectly even with the trailing edge of the wings. it's not a huge amout, but it's noticable. hopefully it's not enough to affect how she flies.....

    i'll definitely keep an eye out for this when doing the elevators and rudder, and will re-slot them if they're not centered.

    (in reply to FlyinTiger)
           Post #: 52

    RE: Pacific Aeromodels Edge 540T 40/70 - 3/12/2006 12:47:39 AM   
    FlyinTiger



    Posts: 642
    Joined: 1/26/2004
    From: Penn Valley, CA, USA
    Status: offline
    Regular nylon gears are just fine for the Edge if you are using "standard" servos. If you are going to use mini-digital servos make sure they have metal gears so you don't strip one...those mini gear trains are pretty weak...especially if you bump it in the shop then don't notice it until you're flying...

    I was out flying the .40 sized Edge today practicing IMAC (this is my "backup" plane) in a 5 to 10 mph wind...man did I notice this thing getting bumped around! It depends on what you want to do with this plane whether you will find it light in the air or not...if all you fly are foamies, then take this Edge up, you'll probably expect it to fly like a foamy and be disappointed.

    If, on the other hand, you have another .40 sized scale aerobat that you think is a good performer, then take up this Edge, I am confident you would be pleasantly surprised. I honestly don't know where you'd get another 1.5 pounds out of a .40 sized plane without sacrificing some serious stiffness and dependability.

    Good luck with your plane!

    _____________________________

    FlyinTiger

    (in reply to boosted180)
           Post #: 53

    RE: Pacific Aeromodels Edge 540T 40/70 - 3/21/2006 2:09:48 AM   
    boosted180


     

    Posts: 233
    Joined: 4/5/2004
    From: long beach, CA, USA
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    i flew the edge for the first time today. not exactly ideal conditions as it was very windy (10 to 15+ mph). i'll wait until the next time out to start trimming her.

    today was mostly for tuning my engine (magnum .52 2 stroke). very powerful engine. more than enough power for this plane (mine came out to be 5.70 lbs). hitec mini ball bearing servos metal gear for the elevator, cirrus standard ball bearing metal gear for the rudder. hitec standard ball bearing nylon gears for the ailerons. hitec hs 55 for the throttle (i'll probably change this out to a mini b/c i'm a bit concerend about vibration problems).

    it feels like the recommended c.g. is too far forward (3" from leading edge). it's hard to make too many other comments concering how she flies as it was so windy today. but overall i'm very happy with the plane. definitely a light flying plane. lands as slow as a trainer. very positive control feel even at slow air speeds. this one will definitely 3d well.

    where is everyone else balancing their planes at? i'm thinking of moving the cg back to 3.5" and going from there.

    the plane ended up being tail heavy (even with the mini servos in the elevators) due to the small 2 stroke. i had to stuff the battery pack way up in the front under the fuel tank to get it to balance at 3" behind the leading edge. i'll move it back a litte tonite and see how she feels the next time out.

    the magnum .52 2 stroke is one powerful little engine. it easily rockets straight up at 1/2 throttle. i almost never have to use full throttle, even for long up lines. the only thing is it vibrates like crazy! much more so than my magnum .46. not sure if this is "normal". i emailed magnum about this. my prop is balanced. i've never had a glow engine vibrate this much before. the throttle transition is a bit messy also. but overall i guess a pretty decent engine for $95. my next engine will be a saito or ys 4 stroke if this one doesnt work out.

    i'll let you guys know how she does the next time out (hopefully much less wind). also please let me know where you guys are balancing this plane.

    thanks,
    brian

    (in reply to FlyinTiger)
           Post #: 54

    RE: Pacific Aeromodels Edge 540T 40/70 - 3/21/2006 6:10:30 AM   
    FlyinTiger



    Posts: 642
    Joined: 1/26/2004
    From: Penn Valley, CA, USA
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    "PA Edge: On take-off only a breath of up elevator was required (C.G. at 3 1/4" from wing leading edge) to gently climb the Edge from the runway. I used 1/2 throttle for take-off to keep from putting to much stress on the engine, as break it was still underway."

    This quote is from page one...

    Anyway, the 3-1/4" from the leading edge CG gives me great performance, it is very stable, and does everything in the book at that CG.

    It will be good to know you can move your battery back a bit! Good thing you went with the digital minis on the elevators. Your engine should smooth out as it starts breaking in and you start leaning out the mixture. After three or four tanks of fuel you should probably be able to get a good transition from low to high throttle. Yep, you can't complain for an engine that is less than $100!

    _____________________________

    FlyinTiger

    (in reply to boosted180)
           Post #: 55

    RE: Pacific Aeromodels Edge 540T 40/70 - 3/24/2006 7:55:52 PM   
    boosted180


     

    Posts: 233
    Joined: 4/5/2004
    From: long beach, CA, USA
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    i'm replacing the magnum .52 with a 4 stroke. what do you guys recommend? i've heard both good and bad thins about the ys .63 ("surging problems, non-consistent engine speed" . i want something RELIABLE, and with enough power for unlimited verticle. cost is important but i dont mind spending more money as long as i wont have problems. it's really frustrating when i drive 35 minutes to the field only to tinker with the engine with minimal flying time.

    i'm not going to go too much into why i'm giving up the magnum except to say that i'm done messing with it. i have a magnum .46 and it runs great but this .52 i've had way too many problems with. excellent power but extremely unreliable and it vibrates like nothing i've seen before and has serious overheating problems. and no, it's NOT because i'm running it too lean. in fact it overheats while idling just idling on the ground for 1 minute!

    in anycase, what is a good RELIABLE 4 stroke i can get and where can i get it from? it will be my first 4 stroke.

    thanks,
    brian


    (in reply to FlyinTiger)
           Post #: 56

    RE: Pacific Aeromodels Edge 540T 40/70 - 3/24/2006 9:08:40 PM   
    JDBuddy



    Posts: 94
    Joined: 5/13/2004
    From: Gainesville, FL, USA
    Status: offline
    Boosted,

    I decided to replace my Evolution .61 with a Saito FA-82. Everyone seems to love the .82 and it is quite a bit lighter than my Evo (16 oz +/-). I ordered it this week and should have it Monday. I will let everyone know how it works out.

    John

    (in reply to boosted180)
           Post #: 57

    RE: Pacific Aeromodels Edge 540T 40/70 - 3/25/2006 8:17:04 AM   
    FlyinTiger



    Posts: 642
    Joined: 1/26/2004
    From: Penn Valley, CA, USA
    Status: offline
    The Saito .82 will be a good first 4-stroke. Many people swear by Saito 4-strokes and that may be the last engine you'll need to by in that size range...you'll really like it. You can connect the existing lines from your already installed fuel tank. Saitos are great running engines with a long history of being easy to operate and have noteworthy dependability.

    The YS engines are not for everyone. While I highly recommend them they are a little different and do take a little getting used to. The fuel system to feed the YS is pressurized and requires a little tougher fuel tank than the one that came with the plane. Surging and other problems people are having (just like 90% of the problems in this hobby) have to do with SETUP.

    The YS needs to have its valves checked and the clearance adjusted several times during the break-in period...something many people are not willing to do. Also, the correct mixture of fuel needs to be run in a YS engine (20% synthetic oil, 20% nitro) for them to perform as advertised.

    Enjoy a successful flying season!

    _____________________________

    FlyinTiger

    (in reply to JDBuddy)
           Post #: 58

    RE: Pacific Aeromodels Edge 540T 40/70 - 3/25/2006 8:33:45 PM   
    boosted180


     

    Posts: 233
    Joined: 4/5/2004
    From: long beach, CA, USA
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    i pulled the magnum from my plane last nite to send it in for service. i decided to take it apart and see if i can find anything obvious wrong with it. gues what i found??

    the head gasket was not there! apparently the technicians at magnum forgot to install the cylinder head gasket! this would explain the overheating (due to increased compression?), crazy vibration and it just not running right. the top of the piston is also badly burned.

    i cant believe they forgot the head gasket! oh well, people make mistakes i guess. when they send me another one i'll just sell it or use it for another plane. i still want a 4 stroke in my edge.

    i have two questions about the saitos:
    is there any mechanical difference b/t the saito .72 (regular edition) and the saito .72 "golden knight" edition other than cosmetic?
    the saito .82 is supposed to weigh the same as the .72 but just has more power, is this correct? is it advisable to get the .82 instead of the .72 (about $35 more)? will the .72 be enough for good verticle performance? does the .82 use up significantly more fuel?

    thanks,
    brian

    (in reply to FlyinTiger)
           Post #: 59

    RE: Pacific Aeromodels Edge 540T 40/70 - 3/27/2006 9:02:03 AM   
    FlyinTiger



    Posts: 642
    Joined: 1/26/2004
    From: Penn Valley, CA, USA
    Status: offline
    Brian,

    "There's no replacement for displacement" is the saying, and here's the quote from the Horizon Hobby website about the .82 vs. the .72:

    "The new FA-82a produces 20% more power than a typical .72 four-stroke, but shares the same weight and dimensions."

    The Golden Knight version is just different colors...and more expensive. Same internal construction and same power. Go with the .82 if you can...you can always throttle back. I rarely use full throttle flying with the YS .63 4-stroke, and you won't with the Saito .82 either.

    More power means more fuel consumption...you'll probably still get 10 minute flights out of the .82 with the stock fuel tank, I wouldn't sweat the fuel burn. Remember to pull that throttle back to idle on the down-lines and fly at half throttle or less in level flight and you'll be suprised at how long you can go!

    Whichever engine you go with, remember to use the recommended 100% synthetic oil fuel...Saito recommends this as does YS. The more nitro you have the more fuel you will burn too...I like 20% nitro myself (YS calls for 20% oil, 20% nitro) and keep plenty of oil going through your engine...don't use the "4-stroke" blend with less oil.

    If you go with the .82 you are going to need more clearance to keep that prop from dragging on the ground. Check out the gear I used on my Edge, it is Graphtec carbon fiber gear, purchased at www.troybuiltmodels.com and originally for the Hangar 9 Funtana .40, but it fits nicely on this plane. You can see the gear a few posts up from this one.

    Get some pics once she's all together and ready to go, you can throw them in here if you'd like.

    _____________________________

    FlyinTiger

    (in reply to boosted180)
           Post #: 60

    RE: Pacific Aeromodels Edge 540T 40/70 - 4/1/2006 12:00:39 AM   
    boosted180


     

    Posts: 233
    Joined: 4/5/2004
    From: long beach, CA, USA
    Status: offline
    i just got the saito .72 in the mail yesterday. (i ordred it before reading flyintiger's post about the .82) this is my first 4 stroke and i have a few questions:
    it looks like the prop shaft on this engine has a larger diameter than the 2 strokes. my apc props dont fit on them. and the backplate of the spinner also doesnt fit. i've enlarged the hole on the backplate to make it fit. but my question is this: do i have to do the same thing for the prop or are there props especially made for 4 strokes?

    also the instructions for the engine says to check and adjust the valves/ "tappet" after 1-2 hrs of run time. the instructions are very poor and i have no idea how to do this. can someone explain this to me a bit? the instructions also say that the low end does not need to be adjusted/ b/c its preset from teh factory. is this true? that would make tuning much easier if it's true.

    and lastly, the way the glow plug is positioned in the engine makes it almost impossible to reach, even with a long glow driver. should i think about mounting the engine inverted (instead of horizontal) so that i'd have easier access to it or should i get one of those "remote" glow plug things. what are they called anyway, and how much do they cost?

    and lastly, as far as breaking it in, do i have to do it exaclty as indicated by the instructions? (i.e. let it run rich for 2 mintues, let it cool, then richen it up a tad bit, then run again. repeat until you have about 1 gallon of fuel through it.) i've heard from a lot of people that it's better to break it in by just flying it very rich and not pushing it too hard until it's broken in. they say it gets more airflow and runs much cooler this way and isnt nearly as tedious. i've broken in my .46 2c this way and it runs great. should i do the same for the saito or should i break it in "by the book".

    thanks!

    brian

    brian

    (in reply to FlyinTiger)
           Post #: 61

    RE: Pacific Aeromodels Edge 540T 40/70 - 4/4/2006 12:05:46 AM   
    FlyinTiger



    Posts: 642
    Joined: 1/26/2004
    From: Penn Valley, CA, USA
    Status: offline
    Anyone that has a 4-stroke for the first time should get with someone that has experience with the brand and size you chose if possible

    Q1: "i've enlarged the hole on the backplate to make it fit. but my question is this: do i have to do the same thing for the prop or are there props especially made for 4 strokes?"

    A1: As long as you were very careful enlarging the hole in your spinner everything should be okay...put it on the drill bit you used to drill it out and spin the backplate. If it spins true then everything is alright, if it "wobbles" then you need to get a new backplate. As far as your propeller goes, get a PROP REAMER from your local hobby shop and ream your props by hand...doing it by hand ensures the hole stays in the center. There are props made especially for 4-strokes but you don't want to use them. Stick with the APC 13x4 Wide prop for the .72 engine after breaking it in with the recommended "break-in" prop.


    Q2: "also the instructions for the engine says to check and adjust the valves/ "tappet" after 1-2 hrs of run time."

    A2: To check the tappets open the top of the engine...there is a valve cover above the cylinder. You'll see the tappets - these are the things that push on the rocker arms to actuate the valves - and you will be able to see the little screw that allows for adjustment. Use "feeler guages" to set the clearance to the recommended value by adjusting that screw the slightest amount. Basically, when there is no pressure from the camshaft on the pushrods the tappets should be BARELY TOUCHING the rods. You can test for this by rotating the engine until you see both valves are closed (no pressure on the springs/rocker arms) then look closely at the rocker arms, try to wiggle them. It is best to get feeler guages at your local auto parts store, it takes out any of the guest work if you are inexperienced with working on engines.


    Q3: "the instructions also say that the low end does not need to be adjusted/ b/c its preset from teh factory. is this true? that would make tuning much easier if it's true."

    A3: Leave the needles set as recommended and you should be fine if the instructions say so. After running the engine for a bit you'll know if it needs some more tuning.


    Q4: "the way the glow plug is positioned in the engine makes it almost impossible to reach"

    A4: Another consideration, does your exhaust reach out of the cowling with the motor in the "stock" position? If your exhaust doesn't reach and you can't reach the glow plug, then the easiest thing might be to turn it upside down to make everything easier. If you want to get a "remote glow adapter" order it from www.heliproz.com and make sure you get the one with the rubber boot that secures it to the glow plug.


    Q5: "as far as breaking it in, do i have to do it exaclty as indicated by the instructions?"

    Q5: The instructions are written to keep people from burning up the motor...covering their behinds... Definitely take off the cowling and run two tanks through the motor by the method in the instructions. With the cowling off the motor will get plenty of cooling on the ground. Use your "break-in" prop (recommended size in the instructions) for the first gallon of running the engine. This prop will be a little smaller than the one you'll run later and will put less load on the engine during initial break-in. After two tanks of starting it, running it for two minutes, then shutting it down for a minute, etc. you'll be ready to fly. During this time make sure the high end is sufficiently rich for cool running but well below "peak RPM."

    When you fly your aircraft remember that you are richer than normal and your fuel tank will not last as long as you think. It wouldn't hurt to check your fuel level after flying for only 8 or 9 minutes. Do large lazy manuevers varying the throttle thoughout the flight. Limit your full power uplines to only a couple of seconds and make sure to pull the power back to idle on the down lines for cooling and to keep from over-revving your engine.


    Good luck and happy flying!

    _____________________________

    FlyinTiger

    (in reply to boosted180)