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RE: My PBM project - 7/11/2004 4:52 AM   
Kmot



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Status: offline 		Wow! Congratulations Jim that is fantastic!!

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RE: My PBM project - 7/11/2004 5:08 AM   
retransit



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Status: offline 		Great job. Good luck with your ticket!

Bob

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RE: My PBM project - 7/11/2004 1:02 PM   
JMcRae


 

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Status: offline 		Thanks guys!!!! I actually did the oral two Wednesdays ago but we didn't fly because it was gusting to 32 Kts. Not to good for ground reference maneuvers. I just did the flight today. Left the house this morning at 6:00 and got home at 4:00. Makes for two really long days. This is one rating that you really have to earn although it is really worth it. BTW, the names Jesse . Now I'm on to my multi-engine instructor (MEI) rating. Should be done with that in two weeks and then I'll do my Instrument Instructor (II) rating after that. I'm hoping to be done with everything in five weeks so I can actually start working again. I'm tired of being broke .

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RE: My PBM project - 7/11/2004 3:51 PM   
Semi Retired Aviator



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Status: offline 		Congratulations Jesse!! Another step out of the way,and you'll be Going Boeing before you know it. M.82 at FL410 is a nice place to be, and gusting to 32 knots on the ground won't be a problem; just lay in a little aileron and opposite rudder and put it on. Sweet.

The way you're going, you'll be finished your Mariner before me.

< Message edited by JapanFlyer -- 7/11/2004 12:52:31 PM >

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RE: My PBM project - 7/11/2004 6:32 PM   
retransit



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Status: offline 		Jesse,
I'm curious. The pictures of the fuselage's internal view show a completely smooth hollowed out form. What method and/or tools was used to get that contouring inside the fuselage?

Bob

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RE: My PBM project - 7/12/2004 3:01 AM   
JMcRae


 

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Status: offline 		I'm actually going Citation X . I' in two years and seven months the job opens up and providing I have the time (3000 TT, 2000 PIC, 500 Multi, and 50 turbine) I have the job. I figure I will have to get 25 hours a week for the next two and a half years but I have a 172 at my disposal as long as I pay for fuel so it shouldn't be a problem.

Retransit- The hull is hollowed out with a bow hotwire cutter and templates. I separated the hull in sections that were about 12-14" long (6-7 cross sections), made templates out of balsa for a 3/4" hull thickness, punched a hole through the center of the section with a sharpened and heated brass tube, threaded the hot wire, reattached it to the bow, turned on the power and started cutting. If I had used formica (plastic counter top material) the hollowing would have came out flawless but I didn't really feal like spending $50.00 for a 2'x4' piece of formica

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RE: My PBM project - 7/12/2004 10:18 AM   
JMcRae


 

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Status: offline 		Hey guys. I got to spend a few hours on the Mariner this afternoon. I actually got a lot more done than I anticipated. I got all of the rough sanding done on the hull and damn does it look cool. The trickiest part to sand was from the first to the second step and the tail boom. The only sanding left is to just give it a nice finish with some 200 grit sandpaper. I'm hoping to have it ready for glassing in a few days. I also got the wing cores cut from the foam block and I hope to cut the cores this week. I'm going to order my fiberglass tomorrow and hopefully everything will be done on the hull when it gets here. Here's some pics.

Also, in the picture of both the wing and the hull check out the broom next to the hull for size comparison. There's also another 8" on the wing with the wingtips. This thing is HUGE!!!!!!!!

Retransit- I hope that clarified your question. I can post pics of my bow cutter and vertical bow cutter and templates if you want. Unfortunately, being limited with only two hands, I couldn't take any pictures of the actual process

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RE: My PBM project - 7/12/2004 3:59 PM   
seaplane



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Status: offline 		Jesse, 3M also makes a spray 78 glue made for foam. I make foam core floats and have been using it for a couple years now and it works great. Spray both sides, wait a couple minutes and press together.......Seaplane

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RE: My PBM project - 7/12/2004 6:35 PM   
retransit



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Status: offline 		Jesse,
I guess I will have to get a foam cutter. Do you have a recommended source for a reasonably priced cutter? No, I do not feel like building one.

Bob

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RE: My PBM project - 7/12/2004 11:29 PM   
JMcRae


 

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Status: offline 		Retransit- Make it yourself. I made mine out of old tent rods. I used aluminum tubes for the main tube and fiberglass rod for the spreaders. The cool thing about the fiberglass rod is that the ends have aluminum sleeves. Then I just use a 12 volt 6amp battery charger and simply adjust the heat of the wire with the length of the leads. I think I spent $2 and 30 minutes on the whole thing but I already had the parts. I'll post some pics for you when I get back this afternoon.

Seaplane- Thanks. I actually knew that but I didn't feel like spending $17 for a can have the size of the old 77. I guess I learned my lesson!!!! I'm definately past that point now but I will definately use that or soregum for my wing. Thanks

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RE: My PBM project - 7/12/2004 11:33 PM   
JMcRae


 

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Status: offline 		Retransit- I just remembered that if you go to MAN's website and so a search on the PBM there's a build article with a lot of pictures and one of the hollowing process.

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RE: My PBM project - 7/13/2004 4:14 AM   
Kmot



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Status: offline 		Looking good!!

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RE: My PBM project - 7/13/2004 8:26 AM   
JMcRae


 

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Status: offline 		Bob- Even though you don't feel like buiding one here's some pics of my bow cutter. Maybe they will convince you to save some money. Really simple but it works great. I guess my recomendation would have to be a Feather Cut. I had one years ago before it got boken in a move and I never had any problems with it. I think all said and done it was about $300 with a power source. You could build 4 PBM airframes for that cost. Hope the pics help.

Alright, it is way to hot to do any sanding. It is, no lie, 112 degrees in my garage right now and the humidity is really up there. We are having our first monsoon of the season and it has done nothing more than crank up the humidity and blow half the dust in Arizona all over the place. So I am going to do some balsa building in the nice air conditioned living room. Also, last night, after 20 minutes of being bored out of my mind with some stupid French chick flick, I got to sneak back into the garage. I got the stab cores and fins cut and it really looks cool. They are huge. I swear the stab span is bigger than some of my other airplanes. So tonight I will be building the stabs, fins, elevators, and rudders. I'll post pics when I'm done of the empenage.

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RE: My PBM project - 7/13/2004 3:11 PM   
seaplane



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Status: offline 		Jesse, I was buying the 3M 78 spray glue from Home Depot for $10 a can, but they quit handling it. I found a supplier on the internet where I buy it by the case for around $8 a can. Also, I make my own hot wire bows from 1X2 wood and regulate the heat using a length of the cutting wire stretched between 2 screws on a 2X4. Attach one lead from the battery or charger to one end of the wire and use an alligator clip that will slide up and down the wire to adjust the heat. My digital camera broke or I'd send along pics.............Seaplane

< Message edited by seaplane -- 7/13/2004 12:20:33 PM >

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RE: My PBM project - 7/13/2004 11:40 PM   
retransit



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Status: offline 		Yeah Jesse, I was looking at the Feathercut but their site does not have a telephone number and some prices are kind of funny. The home page gives a price of $169.95 for a basic and when you click to purchase, $179.95 comes up. Also their power supply is listed at $144.95 even though they list two versions; 60W and 300W. I e-mailed them a couple of questions. The telephone number would be helpful.
I feel for you and the heat. My son lives in Chandler. My garage is at about 100 degrees so I blast it with a fan. It's survivable. I was looking at a 10,000 BTU AC that operates on 115V. I might just buy it to make it pleasant.
If I brought my crap in the living room my wife would kill me. Now if I can only figure a way to get my mother in-law to leave, I'd turn her bedroom into a shop.
What is the second picture? I can't make it out.
Oh by the way, I ordered a set of PBM plans and I have Sparks' book on foam. My problem is I just bought a 109 inch Cessna 195 that needs glassing and further completion for the princely sum of $150 at the local hobby shop. I couldn't pass it up. It has 3 giant Futaba servos in it. The servos alone are worth it. Would look nice on floats.

Bob

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< Message edited by retransit -- 7/13/2004 8:42:41 PM >

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RE: My PBM project - 7/14/2004 5:56 AM   
JMcRae


 

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Status: offline 		Well last night I got the tail almost done. There was actually a lot more work than I anticipated. I still have to sand everything but it sure looks cool. Also, the stabs and fins are not glued together. They're just screwed and taped together for the picture and my viewing pleasure. It actually got a compliment from my fiancee and that does not happen very often when it comes to my projects!!! She usually just rolls her eyes and tells me I'm obsessed and I'm not going to argue with that, she might be right . I keep blaming her everytime she complains about how "huge and rediculous" this thing is by reminding her that "You said Nick had a cooler plane than me. What did you expect me to do!!!. I got him into float flying and even built his floats for his GP 182, so I'll be damned if he has a cooler plane than me!!!" . It made her laugh and I must say that she is pretty cool about the planes all over her dining room table (and the house). Anyways here's some pics.

Bob- That thing is sweet. For that price I don't think anyone could pass it up. I've always loved the 185 and 195. It's begging to be on floats. Also the second picture is of the intersection of the aluminum main tube and the fiberglass spreader. I just drilled a 3/8 hole into the aluminum and press fitted the tube in with a little help from my Dremel. Sorry for the lousy pics also. For some reason it won't focus very well at night even with the lights on.

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RE: My PBM project - 7/14/2004 7:10 PM   
retransit



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Status: offline 		Oh O.K. it's the top part of the shaft with the tube intersecting it.
I received an e-mail reply from my questions to the manufacturers of Feather Cut and they said they would give me the basic for the price quoted on the home page. The 60W power supply is $69.95.

Bob

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RE: My PBM project - 7/16/2004 10:28 AM   
JMcRae


 

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Status: offline 		Tonight I got the wing cores cut. This was kind of tricky as I haven't done any in about 8 years and I don't have a Feathercut anymore which is definatly helpful when cutting tapers. I ended up having to re-do an outer wing panel but my bowcutter worked great. The cool thing is that for the first time EVER, my fiancee helped me with an airplane and she actually thought it was cool!!! We even did the cutting on the kitchen table! She worked one side of the bow and I worked the other. Anyways, they came out pretty good and there aren't any ripples or low spots. I made the templates out of 1/32 ply and they didn't hang up at all which was my fear. I'm actually running out of things to do until my glass and wood gets here. The only things really left is the final sanding of the fuse and tail, sheeting the wing, and cutting the cross section and sanding the nacelles which I'll do tomorrow. Here's some pics

Bob- I just remembered that you are going to have to build a bowcutter for hollowing the fuse unless you do it one cross section at a time during the initial cutting. This would work but it would be very time consuming and wouldn't come out smooth on the inside. The entire interior of the hull would be stepped and that might be kind of annoying when putting the few wood reinforcements, mounts, and pushrods in the hull. The feathercut I had was mounted on a table with a pivot for tapered wings and If you're getting the same model it might not work for hollowing. I hope I'm wrong but I'll trade you a bowcutter for that 195 if I'm not!!! . Perhaps someone here has some insite as to whether the Feathercut would work.

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< Message edited by JMcRae -- 7/19/2004 12:29:50 AM >

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RE: My PBM project - 7/16/2004 3:36 PM   
NickC5FE



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Status: offline 		Loking great jesse, except one thing.........thats too clean of a garage to be yours, this must be someone elses PBM

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RE: My PBM project - 7/16/2004 10:10 PM   
retransit



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Status: offline 		I have a question Jesse. How did you keep the foam dust down when sanding. I thought a table/box made up with peg board on top and a hole in the center bottom for the application of a shop vac hose to suck the dust from the sanding operation might work. What did you use, or did you just sweep up after every episode with the sandpaper?
I guess you owe your fiancee the first flight, right?
I ordered the Feathercut. I also bought the 52" bow so I should be all set. I got the cutter for 169.95 and the power supply (scratch and dent) for $50.
My friend told me he uses plywood for templates also but that he CA's the edges to make them harder and sands to final shape.

Bob

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RE: My PBM project - 7/17/2004 1:23 AM   
JMcRae


 

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Status: offline 		Hey Bob. You're definately going to like the Feather Cut. As to the foam, I usually just sand by the garage door with my fan on High to help blow out the dust and cool me down a little. It works moderately well and the pink foam dust is a lot heavier than the white so the cleanup isn't to bad. At the end of the day I usually clean up most of the dust with a broom and dust pan and then blow out the remaining dust with my air compressor. I probably spend about 10 minutes each day cleaning. Since the pink foam is heavier it has a tendency to just fall to the floor instead of floating everywhere. There is usually only a 4 foot radius of dust after I'm done for the day. There is a LOT of time spent sanding, probably to the toll of at least 8 hours, and I think having a shop vac running that long would be a lesson in Hell. My suggestion would just be to keep it simple although your idea would probably work. Just remember that the hull is well over 6 feet long and most of the sanding strokes are at least 3 feet to get a nice smooth hull. That would mean a pretty big box. Also, to everyone doing this project, WEAR A DUST MASK!!! Foam dust is damaging to lungs. BTW, NO, she definately does not get the first flight!!!! But I'm going to paint up a photo of her in photoshop to make some nose art. BTW, did any PBM's have nose art? I don't really care as this is technicly a "sport scale" aiplane but it would be cool if they did.

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RE: My PBM project - 7/17/2004 3:56 AM   
retransit



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Status: offline 		I haven't seen any nose art, unless you consider a number nose art.

Bob

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RE: My PBM project - 7/19/2004 9:59 AM   
Jimmbbo



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Status: offline 		Looking good!!

Checked my copy of Squadron Hobbies' PBM In Action... Found this "nose art". BTW, the PBM In Action book is great for paint schemes and any detailing you might want to add... Can be found at LHS or Amazon.com.


Cheers!

Jim

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< Message edited by Jimmbbo -- 7/19/2004 2:00:35 AM >

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RE: My PBM project - 7/19/2004 9:32 PM   
JMcRae


 

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Status: offline 		Cool!!! Thanks for the tip. I looked at my LHS and they didn't have one but I'll have them order it as I'm getting closer to the painting stage. Today I'm going to spend as long as it takes to get all of the sanding done and also cut the nacelles. I'll post pics when I'm done.

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RE: My PBM project - 7/19/2004 10:10 PM   
retransit



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Status: offline 		Jimmbbo,
I just ordered my copy of PBM Mariner in Action. Thanks for the info. I also found another book, The Fighting Flying Boat: A History of the PBM Mariner by Richard Alden Hoffman @ Barnes & Noble.com which I also ordered. I'll let this thread know if the last one is any good or not when I receive it.

Bob

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