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RE: Scratch Building, Aircraft Design, 3D/CAD FAQ - 11/6/2004 11:18 PM   
Mike James



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Status: offline 		Capbat (and others)...

Thanks for the heads up. I've moved some files around, and forgot to change the link above.
The new link (with new articles, too) is at http://homepage.mac.com/mikejames/rc_tips_site/rcdesignandbuilding.html


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RE: Scratch Building, Aircraft Design, 3D/CAD FAQ - 1/26/2005 8:07 AM   
SteveTrofemuk



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Status: offline 		I too am looking forward to this thread. I scratch built two planes 15 or so years ago--they were my first RC airplanes. I didn't have the money for kits and the ARFs were terrible then. Well, now I'm richer, wiser, older--you get the drift. I'm interested in getting back into scratch building. I'm tired of going to the field with a kit/ARF and finding someone else has that same plane. I want original and unique. I want SCRATCH BUILT.

So come on--more etipes please! Especially concerning aircraft design. I have the book from MAN--its REALLY good with lots of info. For those who don't know, here's the URL: http://www.rcstore.com/rs/general/detail.asp?catnum=2023&catego=BO
Here's the link: Basics of Model Aircraft Design

BTW: I'm working on a revamp of my original trainer from 15 years ago for my son. It was a simple plane--overhead wing held with rubberbands. Basically, I went to the hobby shop, found a model (PT-20 I believe) and copied the dimensions. The airfoil was drawn freehand. It flew. In those days I didn't have an instructor so the first one didn't fly long. It did fly often and when that one proved too heavy from all the repair jobs I built another. The second one was sacraficed to the moving gods of the USAF. That was my last scratch built plane. Ever since, it's been kits and more recently ARFs.

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RE: Scratch Building, Aircraft Design, 3D/CAD FAQ - 1/26/2005 8:13 AM   
SteveTrofemuk



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Status: offline 		I forgot to add this link http://airfieldmodels.com/information_source/math_and_science_of_model_aircraft/rc_aircraft_design/.
Some good info on rc aircraft design.

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RE: Scratch Building, Aircraft Design, 3D/CAD FAQ - 3/4/2005 9:21 PM   
BMatthews



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quote:

ORIGINAL: CafeenMan

This is an article I've been working on over the past several months. It is simply my approach to model aircraft design. Others may do things differently and end up with as good or better results.

The one thing I keep seeing in this forum and in my e-mail is people asking how big a plane to build for any given engine. Personally I think that is the wrong question to be asking.

The "right" question is given an engine, how do you design an airplane that performs like you want it to? My answer is to choose an overall weight and a wing loading which allows you to figure out a wing area. From there you select other parameters for the wing such as airfoil, aspect ratio, etc.

Anyway, I don't want to rewrite the entire article, but I would like to get feedback from those who read it.

Step-By-Step Model Aircraft Design




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RE: Scratch Building, Aircraft Design, 3D/CAD FAQ - 3/5/2005 3:06 AM   
Mike James



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Status: offline 		Just a heads up for any of you following any of my articles...

To consolidate and speed up my site, I'm moving ALL of it's contents to my server space at Apple. If you go to my homepage at http://www.nextcraft.com, you can then visit any pages that you normally visit, and update your bookmarks.

The new URL for the RC Design Tips, for example, is at http://homepage.mac.com/mikejames/nextcraft_site/rcdesignandbuilding.html
(No content on my site has been removed, but the URL's have changed.)
Thanks!

< Message edited by Mike James -- 3/5/2005 3:08 AM >


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RE: Scratch Building, Aircraft Design, 3D/CAD FAQ - 3/5/2005 5:25 PM   
dicknadine


 

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Status: offline 		Time march's on, sure glad that I still the capability to do things the old fashion pencil, paper way. let me know when someone starts to pick up and carry on the old way. will continue to post photos of my new creations created the old fashion way of drawing plans. dick

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RE: Scratch Building, Aircraft Design, 3D/CAD FAQ - 3/12/2005 4:57 PM   
dicknadine


 

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Status: offline 		Ok. How many of you guys have gone to my above ref book for new designs of old Antique aircraft ? its full of all kinds of possibilities. forget the computor and do by hand twice as fast, assuming that you have 40+ years of aircraft design behind you. dick

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RE: Scratch Building, Aircraft Design, 3D/CAD FAQ - 3/31/2005 2:53 AM   
Jakeluke



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Status: offline 		I'd like to think this category was still alive.

I'm not a computer whiz, but it does have its advantages. I tried the DOS version of DesignCad a number of years ago and found it pretty tedious. Same goes for TurboCad.

Two years ago I got the idea of building an electric model of Sikorsky's Grand. After digging around and getting some help from one of the members of the family, I was able to get photos, drawings, and data regarding the plane. Then I had to face drawing up a set of building plans.

I was going to dig out my DOS DesignCad, when one of the guys in the club I belong to offered me the Windows version of DesignCad. It took me a fair while to learn how to use the program, and, whenever I haven't used it for a while, a re-learning period, but it is to me a superb way of making drawings.

There are lots of details that need to be worked out and it's easy to draw a detail in whatever scale I need to to be able to see and draw what I want, but then I can fit the detail directly into the master drawing without having to redraw it. And I can rotate it, draw its mirror image, etc.

I can print out whatever portion of the drawing I need to to allow me to proceed with construction of the various pieces. If I need some special drawing, as, for example in this case, to construct the marvelously complex undercarriage, I can do so, adding or deleting whatever I wish. (On this plane, the undercarriage, as I am making it, consists of 35 pieces of 1/8 inch diameter carbon fiber turing, connected with some 100 music wire connectors and epoxy resin, then reinforced with aluminum gusset plates.)

While I've done a lot of scratch building before, this is the first time I had to draw the drawing and to work out all the details.

Originally, I thought of making this with an 8 foot span, but soon realized that getting it to the field fully assembled would be very difficult. Soon I was facing a 5 foot span. This gave me a problem trying to find motors that I could use as this plane uses four motors exposed, mounted on the lower wing.

After thinking a bit more about it, I finally figured that I could get a 6 foot model into my van, and so that became the span. Even then, the smallest motor I could find that could be dummied up into a 4-cylinder engine was the Razor RZ2500 with a 4:1 gearbox. It was about 15% larger in diameter than the crankcase of the original Argus engine, but I think few people will notice it.

I'm two years into the project now, and expect that it may not fly until next year. But it has been quite an education so far, and I'm sure I haven't stopped learning yet.

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RE: Scratch Building, Aircraft Design, 3D/CAD FAQ - 4/9/2005 5:56 PM   
hypersoniq



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Status: offline 		here is a great freeware CAD program called A9CAD
there are 2 downloads,
1. the free A9CAD program
2. a freeware DXF/DWG converter that lets you use A9CAD with 2D drawings all the way up to AutoCAD 2005.

here's the link...
http://www.a9tech.com/

it's not as robust as acad, but it IS free ;-)

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RE: Scratch Building, Aircraft Design, 3D/CAD FAQ - 4/9/2005 8:30 PM   
dicknadine


 

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Status: offline 		Forgot to add that my drawing-- by hand-- are my FULL size drawing of my plane, I don't have to hunt up a printer at some job shop that doesn't know what they are doing. takes a little more time by candle light, but they are mine and I buy a lot of balsa with the $$$ that would have been spent on prints. also I can correct boo-boos as I go along. also the printer doesn't know anything about the structure of the plane that you are modeling. dick

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RE: Scratch Building, Aircraft Design, 3D/CAD FAQ - 4/9/2005 9:49 PM   
adam_one


 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: dicknadine

Forgot to add that my drawing-- by hand-- are my FULL size drawing of my plane, I don't have to hunt up a printer at some job shop that doesn't know what they are doing. takes a little more time by candle light, but they are mine and I buy a lot of balsa with the $$$ that would have been spent on prints. also I can correct boo-boos as I go along. also the printer doesn't know anything about the structure of the plane that you are modeling. dick

Who cares?
Everyone has the right to choose the method that best suits onself...
Thanks hypersoniq for posting the link.



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RE: Scratch Building, Aircraft Design, 3D/CAD FAQ - 4/22/2005 11:42 PM   
Mike James



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Status: offline 		Hi everybody, especially those of you interested in the CAD and 3D modeling aspect of design.

I'm just publishing "Volume One" of a CD/DVD series called (jokingly) "How to do Everything". (See http://homepage.mac.com/mikejames/nextcraft_site/everything_dvd.html ) Any of us who use CAD/3D software know that while they're each unique, they all have similarities,too. So...

I've been using CAD/3D for modeling for almost 15 years, and enjoy the experience. So, in response to my own experiences here on RCU, and due to feedback received during the creation of this first disk, I've decided to make "Volume 2" all about CAD and 3D. Subjects will include all the questions normally asked here on RCU, such as how to create cross-sections from 3-views, how to scale plans and parts up and down. how to construct "special" items like elliptical tips on wings, how to test-fit your radio gear and linkages into the 3D model, and of course, a large focus on the techniques used by most CAD software to create these 2D and 3D models. The examples will include in-depth articles showing how I overcame obstacles on my own projects, and 3D animations illustrating the assemblies from many angles, etc.. I'll also be including some workarounds to the dreaded "raster to vector" issues, and will show some tips as to how to make your final model more accurate for real-life building.

I'll try and have "Volume Two" ready by the end of the summer, so email me if you'd like to be put on the list. Otherwise, an announcement will appear on my site when it's getting close.


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RE: Scratch Building, Aircraft Design, 3D/CAD FAQ - 4/24/2005 9:56 PM   
mhmitchell



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one thing I would LOVE to be able to do is import a JPG, GIF, BMP etc of an aircraft 3-view as a layer and then "trace" over it to do formers, outlines, etc. It seems like a fast, easy way to start a design......does anyone know if Tcad can do this??? perhaps the "pro" version can, but not the cheap "designer" version I have. Grrrrrrrrrrr! =)

-ron
[/quote]

I dont know if this has been answered since I havent read the entire forum but. You dont have to use the import function. I have TC cheapo vs 8. and I can take any format even PDF and just when you are viewing it from what ever viewer you are using ,EDIT SELECT ALL , EDIT COPY then open TC and EDIT PASTE to a new page. Save it in TCW and then trace away. PDF ? Use the PRT SCRN button on your keyboard (this makes a BMP) then you can edit paste it to any viewer you wish even TC then trace away. Be sure to terace in another color other rthan BLack then you can select by > color , edit copyt and paste your tracing toi a new page after which you can edit select all and change the color to black.


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RE: Scratch Building, Aircraft Design, 3D/CAD FAQ - 4/29/2005 2:19 PM   
Mechanos


 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: mhmitchell



one thing I would LOVE to be able to do is import a JPG, GIF, BMP etc of an aircraft 3-view as a layer and then "trace" over it to do formers, outlines, etc. It seems like a fast, easy way to start a design......does anyone know if Tcad can do this??? perhaps the "pro" version can, but not the cheap "designer" version I have. Grrrrrrrrrrr! =)

-ron


I dont know if this has been answered since I havent read the entire forum but. You dont have to use the import function. I have TC cheapo vs 8. and I can take any format even PDF and just when you are viewing it from what ever viewer you are using ,EDIT SELECT ALL , EDIT COPY then open TC and EDIT PASTE to a new page. Save it in TCW and then trace away. PDF ? Use the PRT SCRN button on your keyboard (this makes a BMP) then you can edit paste it to any viewer you wish even TC then trace away. Be sure to terace in another color other rthan BLack then you can select by > color , edit copyt and paste your tracing toi a new page after which you can edit select all and change the color to black.


Don't know about Tcad, but this is exactly what I do with Microstation. I load another module called IRASB and import the raster file. I can then scale the raster file to whatever I want and then trace over it with vectors in the CAD software. Turn off the raster image and you're left with a CAD drawing of the parts. It performs the same function as a digitizing tablet but eliminates the need for the additional hardware. If Tcad with drive a digitizing tablet, they can usually be found cheap on ebay.


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RE: Scratch Building, Aircraft Design, 3D/CAD FAQ - 6/13/2005 3:25 PM   
kevmatthews



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Status: offline 		To Dicknadine, just to let you know your not alone, I'm 39 years old and am working on 2 plans at this time. a J7W1 Japanese Shinden, and a Boeing model 40a. Doing both from 3 views, with graph paper, pencils, lots of erasers , rulers and calculators. Fear not, you are not alone.

kevin matthews

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RE: Scratch Building, Aircraft Design, 3D/CAD FAQ - 6/27/2005 1:03 AM   
CoosBayLumber


 

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Status: offline 		This is pretty old now. It has been on the web about ten years, but has not been noted here. The site noted below has a series of instructions as how to make up files for laser cutting.

Visit my site at : http://www.mybloo.com/coosbay/laser/laser.html
then, hit the how-to button and begin reading.

Wm.

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RE: Scratch Building, Aircraft Design, 3D/CAD FAQ - 9/4/2005 9:40 AM   
Mike James



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Status: offline 		Updated link from NextCraft™ - ( Mike James )


I'm completely out of the fabrication business, but am now taking the time to produce some tutorial CD's. More info, including all the previous content on my site, can be found at http://homepage.mac.com/mikejames/nextcraft_site/rcdesignandbuilding.html


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RE: Scratch Building, Aircraft Design, 3D/CAD FAQ - 9/23/2005 10:34 PM   
tsmith9000


 

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quote:

I had not intended for this thread to get into specifics but rather be more directed to general questions, answers and links to sites with support. However this post and the two after it in answer to tsmith's question are too good a description of what faces a CAD or design newbie. So I've left them here.

But for anyone else wandering in if you have this specific a question please start it as a new thread rather than asking it here.

Thanks
Bruce


I would like to build a plane that has not been created yet for a .91 duct fan. I have downloaded scale drawings from a russian site of a F-5 a,b, e, and f.
now what do I do? I have downloaded a cad program called cad I from the parkjets website. Please email or direct me to what I need to do next. I apprecialte all of your help. T

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RE: Scratch Building, Aircraft Design, 3D/CAD FAQ - 9/24/2005 3:48 AM   
kenblackwell


 

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Status: offline 		tsmith,

I suggest that you take the drawings that you have to a shop with big copying machines and get them blown up to the size airplane that you want to build.

At this point you can proceed with pencil and paper or CAD.

If I were doing it in 2D CAD, I would then take the drawings and draw station lines on the fuselage, top view and side view. Then, you get you ruler and vernier caliper and measure x distance to station line, top y distance, bottom y distance. Make a table to record these dimensions. If you are using CAD you input the x-y coordinates for each of the stations for both top and side views. This may sound terrible but it won't take that long. Then, you draw straight lines and curves (splines) between each of the coordinates.

Looking at your drawings you don't have y-z sections except for the front view. So, you'll have to make these on your own guessing at what the section should look like.

When determining the geometry from you drawings, you need to break it into pieces, like wing, h-stab, vertical fin, etc. You may even want to break the fuselage into sections.

Some of the folks that use 3D modeling programs may take a slightly different approach, but you can't get around dealing with the details of the geometry that has to be extracted from the drawings that you have.

Finally, this is a very complex airplane, so you may want to do something simpler...even if only for an exercise....to learn your CAD program. Learning to use CAD is no small thing...especially if you use a program that follows the command type data entry of AutoCAD. Personally, I use Ashlar Graphite which is much simpler and more intuitive....but way too expensive for normal modeling pursuits.

It would be far simpler to get your full size copies, trace over that with velum drawing paper, then do all the crossection geometry manually.....to make your formers, etc. On the other hand if you goal is to learn CAD....go for it.

Another approach would be to use your two view drawings to make a foam model, which can be carved to shape, blending between parts of the airplane. From this you could cut it into sections to get the geometry for formers...or if you want to make a molded/composite fuselage,you can use this as the starting point to make your plug, from which you make a mold, from which you make parts....but way too much trouble for a one-of airplane.

Cheers,

Ken B.

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RE: Scratch Building, Aircraft Design, 3D/CAD FAQ - 10/28/2005 6:13 PM   
starwoes



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Status: offline 		Just take the plunge. CAD may be easier than you think....spent hours asking questions without doing and then, once i decided to get the trace and all done....it all happened much faster than I could have imagined.......

I have used those raster to vector converters....results were not too desirable. I started work on this about 8.00 am this morning and by 10:00 am, I was done...this far. Makes me wonder what took me so long -- cold feet from over analyzing the advise and responses here???

Eventually, I plan on smoothing surfaces out after I have "skinned" this cat. The effort here was minimal so if anyone is interested in the .DXF files up to this stage....i'm willing to share. Beware though that I have not verified how smooth the contours are after skinning....you'd have to do that yourself.

I will be going further to add all the details in CAD to ensure everything fits and is at the proper location before I even cut wood. I intend to have working flaps/slats so if anyone has details of these structures (especially the flaps and how they pivot), please share with me and I'll be forever grateful.

Thanks.......S

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RE: Scratch Building, Aircraft Design, 3D/CAD FAQ - 12/4/2005 12:13 AM   
50%plane



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Status: offline 		Thanks for this great thread. I've been drawing plans like Dicknadine for a while(okay, maybe not as long as he has.[I'm only 18.]), but I've taken the plunge into CAD with TurboCAD v.4.(the free version) I've spent maybe an hour(at the most) playing around on it, and I really didn't get the whole thought process behind it. I still don't entirely, but this thread has really helped. So thanks to all who have contributed.


Sincerely,
Woops

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RE: Scratch Building, Aircraft Design, 3D/CAD FAQ - 3/6/2006 1:32 PM   
mesae



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quote:

ORIGINAL: flybug

I hope this thread is still alive, because we were just getting started. I need more info got CAD for Xmast and now I need guidance with it.


What did you buy? I have TurboCAD Pro 11.2 and by far the best source for help, beside online help and the manual is the TurboCAD User Conference. Those folks really know what they are doing with TurboCAD. Several things I thought were bugs turned out to be me not understanding how the program worked (and that was just from searching the forums. Another problem that almost stopped me is now history thanks to insight gained from a question I posted. Now I'm productive. Not FAST, mind you, but my 3D model is progressing.

Maybe there is a forum just for users of your CAD software.

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RE: Scratch Building, Aircraft Design, 3D/CAD FAQ - 3/22/2006 7:55 PM   
starwoes



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Status: offline 		This is clearly not done yet but I have gotten so excited about progress that I had to post this. I think I now have the hang of it and will be going back to ensure all meeting points, intersections etc are really smoothened out.

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RE: Scratch Building, Aircraft Design, 3D/CAD FAQ - 11/24/2006 11:57 PM   
iceyflyer



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Status: offline 		heres a little somthing i was just messing around with on solidworks.

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RE: Scratch Building, Aircraft Design, 3D/CAD FAQ - 12/2/2006 4:43 PM   
boomerang-jockey


 

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Status: offline 		Hi, still messing round building my second plane at the moment. But keen to get one drawn up in 3D. I've got some plans off the net, but it seems none of them ever have the lines actually joining, so I can't import them into the 3D solid modeller and extrude them.
I'm keen to model a P51 Mustang or an Extra 330 (? or some kinda extra) but how do you work out what size balse you should use and what do you use as Airfoil sections ? I've tried to copy some from paper, but the plot always end's up too rough. The line thickness on most plans introduces too much error.
Would appreciate some guidance.

Cheers.

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All Forums >> RC Airplanes >> Scratch Building, Aircraft Design, 3D/CAD >> RE: Scratch Building, Aircraft Design, 3D/CAD FAQ
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