TURBINES ARE RUINING AVIATION   
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All Forums >> Radios, Batteries, Clubhouse and more >> Full Scale planes, cars, helis, boats >> Airplanes - Full Scale >> TURBINES ARE RUINING AVIATION
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TURBINES ARE RUINING AVIATION - 7/9/2004 1:35 PM   
TLH101



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From: Corpus Christi, TX, USA
Status: offline 		We gotta get rid of turbines, they are ruining aviation.
We need to go back to big round engines.
Anybody can start a turbine, you just need to move a switch from "OFF" to "START" and then remember to move it back to "ON" after awhile. My PC is harder to start.
Cranking a round engine requires skill, finesse and style.
On some planes, the pilots are not even allowed to do it.
Turbines start by whining for awhile, then give a small lady-like poot and start whining louder.
Round engines give a satisfying rattle-rattle, click-click BANG, more rattles, another BANG, a big macho belch or two, more clicks, a lot of smoke and finally a serious low pitched roar. We like that-it's a guy thing.
When you start a round engine, your mind is engaged and you can concentrate on the flight ahead.
Starting a turbine is like flicking on a ceiling fan: Useful, but hardly exciting.
Turbines don't break often enough, leading to aircrew boredom, complacency and inattention.
A round engine at speed looks and sounds like it's going to blow at any minute. This helps concentrate the mind.
Turbines don't have enough control levers to keep a pilot's attention. There's nothing to fiddle with during the flight.
Turbines smell like a Boy Scout camp full of Coleman lanterns. Round engines smell like God intended flying machines to smell.
I think I hear the nurse coming down the hall. I gotta go.

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RE: TURBINES ARE RUINING AVIATION - 7/9/2004 2:47 PM   
Sport_Pilot



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What does it say on the left side under your name? "CERTIFIED"?

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RE: TURBINES ARE RUINING AVIATION - 7/9/2004 3:50 PM   
FL Phathom


 

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Status: offline 		In 1976 I just received my full scale license on Long Iland NY, While flying around the Island one day I noticed from about 2500ft a gathering of airplanes at Brookhaven airport. I cleared with Unicom and landed, climbing out of my 150 I approached a T-28 and looked up at it's Wright Cyclone and said Holy S*** I was truly impressed especially after getting out of a Cessna 150. And when it fired up it was better than the old lady!---Radial (big round engines) are the sweet deal.

< Message edited by FL Phathom -- 7/9/2004 10:52:30 AM >

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RE: TURBINES ARE RUINING AVIATION - 7/9/2004 6:36 PM   
Sport_Pilot



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Status: offline 		I always liked the start up scene in "Last Flight of the Pheniox". Longest radial engine start up I know of.

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RE: TURBINES ARE RUINING AVIATION - 7/9/2004 10:55 PM   
Villy


 

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Status: offline 		Are we talking here about the plane built out of pieces by a model airplane builder.....

I've got to use a cartridge to clean it out.........

My old friend Bruce always told me that he had shivers every time that he had to fire up the Harvard. The breach of the Cartridge start system was located right in front of his crotch......



There's a site on the net with a movie of a Canberra being cartridge started - no sound darn it all. Lot's of smoke though....

Now that would be a nice project for a couple of small turbines..

Villy

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RE: TURBINES ARE RUINING AVIATION - 7/9/2004 11:03 PM   
britbrat


 

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Status: offline 		Round engines are a bit like helicopters -- lots of sound & fury, while continually trying to shed vital parts.

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RE: TURBINES ARE RUINING AVIATION - 7/9/2004 11:17 PM   
ifixairplanes


 

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Status: offline 		the other night at the FBO where i work, we had the NOAA DC-3 expirement aircraft doing some practice approaches in the night. It was loud as all hell and sounded oh so sweet. Nothing like the sound of 2 radial engines running at full power on takeoff going about 100' over your head. It shakes every bone in your body.

sean

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RE: TURBINES ARE RUINING AVIATION - 7/10/2004 3:54 AM   
William Robison



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Status: offline 		I flew the Canberra (B-57) in the USAF, each time we lit the engines there was another $200 in starter cartridges used up. Smoked like you wouldn't believe. There were always the stories about a green line man shooting his extinguisher into the engine because he thought it had caught fire.

I too am a rabid radial fan, but at the same time I doubt you'll ever meet anyone who has more roundly cursed the R-3350 engines in a C-121, or the 4360s in the C-97.

The absolutely best radial engine of all time is the R-2800 P&W.

Bill.

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RE: TURBINES ARE RUINING AVIATION - 7/12/2004 6:51 PM   
Gaffspan



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Status: offline 		TLH...

I can tell you're from the USA. Here in the UK our piston engines are sleek, and purr into life with that smooth merlin-esque sound !

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RE: TURBINES ARE RUINING AVIATION - 7/12/2004 9:18 PM   
Sport_Pilot



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quote:

and purr into life with that smooth merlin-esque sound !
Boring!

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RE: TURBINES ARE RUINING AVIATION - 7/12/2004 9:53 PM   
Silvanskii



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Status: offline 		Well I personally hope I can make it to Reno soon and hear some real man engines rip.

Although an F-14 with full burner pointing right at you is pretty darn cool.

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RE: TURBINES ARE RUINING AVIATION - 7/13/2004 3:30 PM   
beavertail



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Status: offline 		What planes had the R-2800 P&W in them?

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RE: TURBINES ARE RUINING AVIATION - 7/13/2004 8:31 PM   
William Robison



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Status: offline 		Joe:

A partial list:

Douglas A-26 Invader
Martin B-26 Marauder
Curtiss C-46 Commando
Lockheed C-69 Constellation
Fairchild C-82 Packet
Fairchild C-123 Provider
Douglas DC-6/C-118/R6D
Vought F4U Corsair
Grumman F6F Hellcat
Grumman F7F Tigercat
Grumman F8F Bearcat
Sikorsky H-37 Mojave
Republic P-47 Thunderbolt
Northrop XP-56 Black Bullet
ConvairLiner/T-29/C-131
Lockheed PV-1 Ventura

And the Martin 404 and...

Bill.

< Message edited by William Robison -- 7/13/2004 2:32:16 PM >

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RE: TURBINES ARE RUINING AVIATION - 7/14/2004 11:54 PM   
cropdusterdave


 

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Status: offline 		Why, If it wasn't for radials...I wouldn't have had nearly the amount of exercise. I quite enjoyed those strolls to the nearest farm house to use the telephone to tell the boss to get that piece of $h*t agcat on a road and get a new mag or cylinder put on.

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RE: TURBINES ARE RUINING AVIATION - 7/15/2004 12:09 AM   
Convair340


 

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Status: offline 		Nothing beats the sound of a redial, especially the Pratt & Whitney R-2800.. Hence my username and favorite airplane (nice rhyme), the Convairliner 340 (and 240,440), both of which were powered by the R-2800. Sadly, Convairliner were retired or re-engined with turboprops, mainly the Allison 501-D13, to become the Convair 580. The whine of a turbine powering a propeller doesn't match that of a piston-redial roar powering a propeller.

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RE: TURBINES ARE RUINING AVIATION - 7/15/2004 12:16 AM   
William Robison



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Status: offline 		Dave:

That doesn't sound right. The R-985 was the second best radial of all time. Or did your boss ignore the log books and the normal maintenance?

Bill.

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RE: TURBINES ARE RUINING AVIATION - 7/15/2004 12:28 AM   
Easy does it


 

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Status: offline 		Mr fickle flyer, It seems that with a tag like that you are an older member of society(at least I hope so). Model airplanes have been around for years and have progressed with new technology turbines are also a natural progression, I do not have the skills required or the finances needed to contemplate turbine planes (and I feel that you do not either, because I have found that most people who complain have the same problem) Because we can not play with the BIG BOY'S does not mean that we should condem there personal enjoyment. Times change so should we with them.

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RE: TURBINES ARE RUINING AVIATION - 7/15/2004 12:58 AM   
cropdusterdave


 

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quote:

That doesn't sound right. The R-985 was the second best radial of all time. Or did your boss ignore the log books and the normal maintenance?


YUP! I worked for a snake oil salesman. Started the season out with 1700 hrs on the 985. (He told me is was about 900...recommended TBO is max 1500) Finally had the engine overhauled. Carb went bad and when it was replaced...the mixture set screws were waaay off making the mixture too lean. Kept telling me I was pushing it too hard. I kept telling him something was wrong with the mixture. 6 blown cylinders later....finally found the problem. He skimped on maintenance like you wouldn't believe. I was young and stupid and it took me 5 years to wake up and get away from there.


Mr Brit,

He is just talking about how cool radial engines are... such as warbirds and such. Nobody is complaining about a thing. We're talking about full scale aircraft now, remember. Re read this thread and I think you'll find that.....and reeeelaaaaaax.

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RE: TURBINES ARE RUINING AVIATION - 7/15/2004 2:21 AM   
TLH101



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quote:

ORIGINAL: brit

Mr fickle flyer, It seems that with a tag like that you are an older member of society(at least I hope so). Model airplanes have been around for years and have progressed with new technology turbines are also a natural progression, I do not have the skills required or the finances needed to contemplate turbine planes (and I feel that you do not either, because I have found that most people who complain have the same problem) Because we can not play with the BIG BOY'S does not mean that we should condem there personal enjoyment. Times change so should we with them.


ZOOM........................

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RE: TURBINES ARE RUINING AVIATION - 7/15/2004 4:45 AM   
cropdusterdave


 

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< Message edited by cropdusterdave -- 7/15/2004 4:46:27 AM >

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RE: TURBINES ARE RUINING AVIATION - 7/21/2004 8:01 PM   
rn68123


 

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Status: offline 		Yessir! God bless the old R-2800. My first "job" out of Aviation Cadets was in a Douglas B-26. What a sweet sound in a sweet airplane. Then, 10 years later I lit the burner on Convair's F-106. Boy, that was better than my first ---anything!
Break ground, fly into the wind, not the other way around.

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RE: TURBINES ARE RUINING AVIATION - 7/21/2004 8:18 PM   
William Robison



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Status: offline 		I have flown and cursed both the R-3350 and the R-4360. The 4360 was a four bank 28 cylinder engine, but I have a memory of a four bank 36 cylinder engine, the R-4350. Anybody else remember this one? Or is it just a figment of my imagination?

Bill.

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RE: TURBINES ARE RUINING AVIATION - 7/23/2004 2:15 PM   
britbrat


 

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Status: offline 		Was the 4350 the nasty piece of work on the Boeing Stratocruiser, or was the in the C-99?

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RE: TURBINES ARE RUINING AVIATION - 7/23/2004 3:28 PM   
William Robison



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Status: offline 		The Boeing 377 (?) Stratocruiser series was run with the R-3350 in the commercial and earlier military versions. To increase the carrying capacity of the later military birds the R-4360 was installed. Along with balsa wood props. Sound strange? The props still had the dural blades, but there was a bad resonance in the system, the prop blades got a balsa core trying to eliminate the vibration. Didn't work.

Memory says the C-97's critical rpm was around 1200, you couldn't even shove all four throttles together. You brought the engines one at a time to 1500 or so, then you could advance the throttles together.

The Stratocruiser, if you didn't know, was a B-29/B-50 with an enlarged fuselage conversion, a relatively inexpensive way for Boeing to develop a new passenger plane. The B-50 basically was a B-29 with R-3350 engines.

The Convair C-99 was a B-36 treated the same way. It was a failure, not because it was not a good airplane, but like the Hughes/Kaiser HK-1 ("Spruce Goose") it came too late, the jets were in development, the age of large piston powered planes was drawing to a close. As a side note, the HK-1 also had R-4360 engines.

Anyone else know anything about the 36 cylinder R-4350?

Bill.

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RE: TURBINES ARE RUINING AVIATION - 8/6/2004 2:17 PM   
airbatic


 

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Status: offline 		Turbines aren't ruining anything. As a matter fact a bit of history for all. In 1894, the first turbine engine was conceived, developed, engineered, and produced by McDonnell Douglas in St. Louis where aviation was born. Another fact for you history butts, McDonnell Douglas acquired Boeing Aircraft last year. And by 100% shareholder vote, McDonnell Douglas changed its name to Boeing Aircraft. Isn't that something to change its name to the company it bought?

And you know what the Army says, Aim High.

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