RE: TURBINES ARE RUINING AVIATION   
View related threads: (in this forum | in all forums)

Tower Hobbies
Enter up to 4 keywords or Tower stock numbers
Logged in as Guest



Users viewing this topic: none
    Search This Thread  
 
Printable Version


VAILLY AVIATION HAWKER TYPHOON - RTF
Seller:  TSHARK203
Details:   $4,200.00   |  3/14/2010   |  Classified Ad
We will rotate YOUR AD in this spot if you select "Forum Featured" when placing or editing your ad!

All Forums >> Radios, Batteries, Clubhouse and more >> Full Scale planes, cars, helis, boats >> Airplanes - Full Scale >> RE: TURBINES ARE RUINING AVIATION
Page: <<   < prev  1 [2] 3 4 5   next >   >>  

Login
Message << Older Topic   Newer Topic >>
RE: TURBINES ARE RUINING AVIATION - 8/6/2004 2:46 PM   
William Robison



Posts: 20269
Score: 109
Joined: 11/10/2002
Last Login: 1/30/2007
From: Mary Esther, Florida, FL, USA
Status: offline 		TimBatic:

Aim high, and make your stories tall too. Neither the McDonnell nor the Douglas corporations existed in 1894. But the Steam turbine engine is about that old, or it could be considered far older as Hero's original steam engine of almost 2000 years ago was a turbine of sorts. The Titanic had steam turbine engines, the last development of steam railroad engines was a turbine engined locomotive.

The first jet plane to fly was German, it used an engine designed by a German named Ohain, I think it was in 1939. Britain's Frank Whittle is usually credited with the invention of the gas turbine engine for aircraft, but Ohain beat him to it. Winners get to rewrite history, you know.

Enough for now.

Bill.

_____________________________

Real Airplanes have Two Engines
AMA 25139 - More than 40 years.

Hide Signatures

(in reply to airbatic)
       Post #: 26

RE: TURBINES ARE RUINING AVIATION - 8/6/2004 3:58 PM   
airbatic


 

Posts: 400
Score: 100
Joined: 12/14/2002
Last Login: 1/21/2010
From: Warner Robins, GA, USA
Status: offline 		Bill,

Correct! The German flew the plane in St. Louis. His birthdate was 1839. The date of
1939 on your mind is when Poland invaded Germany. Better get yourself an up-to-date
St. Louis History Almanac.

And as the U.S.M.C always says Temper Phi-don't lose your temper.

Kraus

Hide Signatures

(in reply to William Robison)
       Post #: 27

RE: TURBINES ARE RUINING AVIATION - 8/6/2004 4:42 PM   
famousdave


 

Posts: 2263
Score: 100
Joined: 9/16/2003
Last Login: 11/22/2006
From: Bradenton , FL, USA
Status: offline 		I am not that old, but I was very fortunate in my college days (Embry - Riddle) to have been able to work on and fly in several radial engine aircraft. My first project was complete overhaul of a Pratt R-985 I also worked on 1830s and one 2800. Later in life I was able to dissect a R-4360.. most incredible mechanical marvel anyone could lay eyes on. To think it was designed in in the 1940s amazes me still.

I flew in a beech D-18, DC-3, Lockheed Super Con, Stearman, Waco, and a B-29.... I have also flown in a T-38 and F-14, Lear 35, GIII, and C-141. Both were different experiences never to be forgotten. Few people will ever know the thrill of going 700+ Mph in a fighter jet, and even fewer have had the pleasure of flying in the ultimate airplane - the B-29 - by all measures - it shouldn't fly.. but put enough cubic inches under its wings and it does though!! The scream of those huge radials (R-3350) and the smell of 130 octane gasoline and oil burning your eyes....

I will never forget it.

I love the jets for the shear speed and efficiency, but for the ride and sound - I'll take the radials any day!!

DP

PS- in case you are wondering how I was able to catch rides on all these planes - I used to work for United Technolgies (Pratt and Whitney / Sikorsky Aircraft). I was also a for-hire mechanic during that period in the early 80's. We did a lot of work with Boeing too. I have been around aviation all my life in one form or another...

Hide Signatures

(in reply to airbatic)
       Post #: 28

RE: TURBINES ARE RUINING AVIATION - 8/7/2004 3:57 AM   
cropdusterdave


 

Posts: 452
Score: 100
Joined: 1/3/2003
Last Login: 1/12/2008
From: timbuktoo, ND, USA
Status: offline
quote:

And you know what the Army says, Aim High.


Actually, the Air Force Says that.

quote:

Correct! The German flew the plane in St. Louis. His birthdate was 1839


Are you trying to say that the first jet aircraft was piloted by a person born in the year 1839? That would make him 61 years old at the turn of the century....before powered flight had even been achieved. By the time the first jet flew (not in St. Louis) he would have been 100 years old.


Oh, and Semper Fi means "always faithful"

_____________________________

keepeth attention on thine airspeed lest the ground come up to smit thee...

Hide Signatures

(in reply to famousdave)
       Post #: 29

RE: TURBINES ARE RUINING AVIATION - 8/7/2004 5:41 AM   
William Robison



Posts: 20269
Score: 109
Joined: 11/10/2002
Last Login: 1/30/2007
From: Mary Esther, Florida, FL, USA
Status: offline 		Dave:

Note my comment on the stories being as tall as the aims. Airbatic has his tongue firmly planted in his cheek; even the most callow youth should know his statements are total BS - he's "Funnin'" us.

Bill.

_____________________________

Real Airplanes have Two Engines
AMA 25139 - More than 40 years.

Hide Signatures

(in reply to cropdusterdave)
       Post #: 30

RE: TURBINES ARE RUINING AVIATION - 8/7/2004 2:16 PM   
cropdusterdave


 

Posts: 452
Score: 100
Joined: 1/3/2003
Last Login: 1/12/2008
From: timbuktoo, ND, USA
Status: offline 		Ah, gotcha.

_____________________________

keepeth attention on thine airspeed lest the ground come up to smit thee...

Hide Signatures

(in reply to William Robison)
       Post #: 31

RE: TURBINES ARE RUINING AVIATION - 8/9/2004 3:27 PM   
FLYBOY



Posts: 8850
Score: 100
Joined: 1/7/2002
Last Login: 3/19/2010
From: Missoula, MT, USA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: William Robison

Dave:

even the most callow youth should know his statements are total BS - he's "Funnin'" us.




No fun intended, he is just plain doesn't get it.

_____________________________

Fly it till the wings come off.

Hide Signatures

(in reply to William Robison)
       Post #: 32

RE: TURBINES ARE RUINING AVIATION - 5/24/2005 5:06 AM   
Holton50


 

Posts: 160
Score: 100
Joined: 1/13/2003
Last Login: 5/27/2009
From: ortonville, MI, USA
Status: offline 		i have one thing to say about this...
props are for boats

_____________________________

Go big or go home!

Hide Signatures

(in reply to FLYBOY)
       Post #: 33

RE: TURBINES ARE RUINING AVIATION - 5/27/2005 5:41 AM   
Lowlevlflyer


 

Posts: 896
Score: 100
Joined: 5/29/2004
Last Login: 5/1/2009
From: Davis, OK, USA
Status: offline 		Wellll... HAIR DRYERS ARE FOR WOMEN!! Heheh, I'm still laughin over that camp full of coleman lanterns comment!! That's classic!
quote:

ORIGINAL: Fastdyno

i have one thing to say about this...
props are for boats



_____________________________

AMA# 770153
"Hey ya'll, watch this..."

Hide Signatures

(in reply to Holton50)
       Post #: 34

RE: TURBINES ARE RUINING AVIATION - 5/27/2005 6:25 AM   
William Robison



Posts: 20269
Score: 109
Joined: 11/10/2002
Last Login: 1/30/2007
From: Mary Esther, Florida, FL, USA
Status: offline 		All:

Turbines are not ruining aviation. Turbines have nothing to do with aviation.

Jet powered machines are not airplanes, they are merely "Spam Cans" taking up space where a real airplane should be.

Want to experience aviation? Has to have a prop. None of this flat or V-12 engine crap either. At least an R-1830, far better a pair of R-2800 engines,

Bill.

_____________________________

Real Airplanes have Two Engines
AMA 25139 - More than 40 years.

Hide Signatures

(in reply to Lowlevlflyer)
       Post #: 35

RE: TURBINES ARE RUINING AVIATION - 5/27/2005 6:45 AM   
boss_blueangels



Posts: 177
Score: 100
Joined: 4/21/2003
Last Login: 6/24/2008
From: Snohomish, WA, USA
Status: offline 		Radials... they're for kids. Lets see your little antique airplanes pull something like this off: Takeoff Or from a different angle: Oh yeah!

Plus, what's so bad about an easy/quick start? It gets you up in the air quicker, doesn't it? lol it's all in good humor.


_____________________________

You haven't failed until you've given up.


Hide Signatures

(in reply to William Robison)
       Post #: 36

RE: TURBINES ARE RUINING AVIATION - 5/27/2005 7:04 AM   
William Robison



Posts: 20269
Score: 109
Joined: 11/10/2002
Last Login: 1/30/2007
From: Mary Esther, Florida, FL, USA
Status: offline 		Jason:

If you want a vertical take off either use a helicopter of strap into a Saturn Five.

If you don't have at least three levers to control each engine you're riding, not flying.

And yes, it's all in fun. Maybe.

Haw.

Bill.

_____________________________

Real Airplanes have Two Engines
AMA 25139 - More than 40 years.

Hide Signatures

(in reply to boss_blueangels)
       Post #: 37

RE: TURBINES ARE RUINING AVIATION - 5/27/2005 9:20 PM   
Pilotsmoe



Posts: 555
Score: 100
Joined: 1/19/2003
Last Login: 1/30/2010
From: Ocean City, NJ, USA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: William Robison

All:

Turbines are not ruining aviation. Turbines have nothing to do with aviation.

Jet powered machines are not airplanes, they are merely "Spam Cans" taking up space where a real airplane should be.

Want to experience aviation? Has to have a prop. None of this flat or V-12 engine crap either. At least an R-1830, far better a pair of R-2800 engines,

Bill.

nah, a GE90. Worlds biggest turbine. A fine piece of American machenery The blades are composite btw

Attachments
Click to see fullsize image.
Click for fullsize


< Message edited by Pilotsmoe -- 5/27/2005 9:29 PM >

_____________________________

Joe AMA 618696


Hide Signatures

(in reply to William Robison)
       Post #: 38

RE: TURBINES ARE RUINING AVIATION - 5/30/2005 5:24 PM   
crasharama



Posts: 579
Score: 100
Joined: 3/18/2005
Last Login: 3/2/2009
From: Mt Coolum QLD, AUSTRALIA
Status: offline 		What about an RB211 doing wet spins??
Sounds kinda like a V8 when the pylon valve is opened, & creates more fog than a cold frosty morning!!

If you want to hear crash bang spit, try being the apprentice sitting at the nose leg giving ground clearances when you have a compressor stall, shakes everything for miles, & you & everyone around has to change their pants!!


_____________________________

www.coolumflyers.com
Revver Brother 116

Hide Signatures

(in reply to Pilotsmoe)
       Post #: 39

RE: TURBINES ARE RUINING AVIATION - 5/30/2005 8:06 PM   
khodges


 

Posts: 5434
Score: 126
Joined: 7/3/2003
Last Login: 3/17/2010
From: newton, NC, USA
Status: offline 		I'm too young to remember radials in regular use (commercial and military), but I've watched B-17's take off at airshows, and even got to see FiFi (B-29) take off once; I can only imagine the airfields in England and in the Pacific during WWII when there were a couple hundred of those engines running at once. From my perspective as an aircrew member just in the rear with the gear, it didn't make much difference to me what was making all the wind that kept us moving, as long as it didn't stop 'til we were on the ground again . Given the choice, though, I'd rather attribute my hearing loss to the long-term proximity of radials instead of glorified stovepipes.

_____________________________

Club Saito #2, WACO Brotherhood #20. What other trouble can I get into?

Hide Signatures

(in reply to crasharama)
       Post #: 40

RE: TURBINES ARE RUINING AVIATION - 5/30/2005 8:10 PM   
William Robison



Posts: 20269
Score: 109
Joined: 11/10/2002
Last Login: 1/30/2007
From: Mary Esther, Florida, FL, USA
Status: offline 		I still like the line "Smells like a Boy Scout camp full of Coleman stoves."

Bill.

_____________________________

Real Airplanes have Two Engines
AMA 25139 - More than 40 years.

Hide Signatures

(in reply to khodges)
       Post #: 41

RE: TURBINES ARE RUINING AVIATION - 5/31/2005 11:30 PM   
FLYBOY



Posts: 8850
Score: 100
Joined: 1/7/2002
Last Login: 3/19/2010
From: Missoula, MT, USA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: khodges

I'm too young to remember radials in regular use (commercial and military), but I've watched B-17's take off at airshows, and even got to see FiFi (B-29) take off once; I can only imagine the airfields in England and in the Pacific during WWII when there were a couple hundred of those engines running at once. From my perspective as an aircrew member just in the rear with the gear, it didn't make much difference to me what was making all the wind that kept us moving, as long as it didn't stop 'til we were on the ground again . Given the choice, though, I'd rather attribute my hearing loss to the long-term proximity of radials instead of glorified stovepipes.



I have flown formation with Fifi! How many guys my age can say that? Not too many!

They are all cool. Don't care if it has a round engine, flat or turbin! I will fly anything anyone will let me!

_____________________________

Fly it till the wings come off.

Hide Signatures

(in reply to khodges)
       Post #: 42

RE: TURBINES ARE RUINING AVIATION - 6/1/2005 2:11 AM   
khodges


 

Posts: 5434
Score: 126
Joined: 7/3/2003
Last Login: 3/17/2010
From: newton, NC, USA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: William Robison

I still like the line "Smells like a Boy Scout camp full of Coleman stoves."

Bill.


Boy Scouts have sure changed since I was one; we weren't allowed to even use a Coleman lantern, much less cook on a camp stove. I guess today the smell of Coleman fuel burning helps cover up the postprandial (after dinner) aroma of digesting Shepherd's pie and baked beans

"I think you boys done had enough !!!"--- Slim Pickens, in "Blazing Saddles"

< Message edited by khodges -- 6/1/2005 2:13 AM >

_____________________________

Club Saito #2, WACO Brotherhood #20. What other trouble can I get into?

Hide Signatures

(in reply to William Robison)
       Post #: 43

RE: TURBINES ARE RUINING AVIATION - 6/1/2005 3:54 AM   
William Robison



Posts: 20269
Score: 109
Joined: 11/10/2002
Last Login: 1/30/2007
From: Mary Esther, Florida, FL, USA
Status: offline 		Ken:

I have no idea whether or not the Boy Sprouts are allowed camp stoves. I just liked the comparison.

Bill.

_____________________________

Real Airplanes have Two Engines
AMA 25139 - More than 40 years.

Hide Signatures

(in reply to khodges)
       Post #: 44

RE: TURBINES ARE RUINING AVIATION - 6/1/2005 9:28 PM   
khodges


 

Posts: 5434
Score: 126
Joined: 7/3/2003
Last Login: 3/17/2010
From: newton, NC, USA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: William Robison

Ken:

I have no idea whether or not the Boy Sprouts are allowed camp stoves. I just liked the comparison.

Bill.


Bill- it's probably standard issue now, got to move with the times. They probably don't even know what compasses are, just pull out their GPS and follow the arrow now. My scoutmaster (oh, those many years ago) was old fashioned anyhow, the epitome of "roughing it". He'd probably have forbidden them on principle alone. He was old enough , I think he knew the guy who invented fire.

It is a good sounding comparison, though.

_____________________________

Club Saito #2, WACO Brotherhood #20. What other trouble can I get into?

Hide Signatures

(in reply to William Robison)
       Post #: 45

RE: TURBINES ARE RUINING AVIATION - 6/1/2005 10:56 PM   
Flight Hawk


 

Posts: 154
Score: 100
Joined: 11/3/2004
Last Login: 3/18/2010
From: Custer, WA, USA
Status: offline 		What about the Bristol Centaurus 18, or does it matter which way the egg beater turns

_____________________________

I started out with nothing & still have most of it left.

Hide Signatures

(in reply to khodges)
       Post #: 46

RE: TURBINES ARE RUINING AVIATION - 6/1/2005 11:11 PM   
William Robison



Posts: 20269
Score: 109
Joined: 11/10/2002
Last Login: 1/30/2007
From: Mary Esther, Florida, FL, USA
Status: offline 		Hawk:

Many British and Russian engines turn the "Wrong way." One Russian engine currently popular, the Vendenyev M-14 for example. Look at the prop on the Sukhois and Yaks, or the Pitts s-12 using the same engine.

So no, rotation doesn't matter so long as there's a fan turning in free air, and there's a radial recip engine behind it. We'll even let the Brits in with their Bristol radials and their sleeve valves. Don't know why they forgot how to grind a cam ring.

Haw.

Bill.

_____________________________

Real Airplanes have Two Engines
AMA 25139 - More than 40 years.

Hide Signatures

(in reply to Flight Hawk)
       Post #: 47

RE: TURBINES ARE RUINING AVIATION - 6/19/2005 4:44 PM   
jetfixr123


 

Posts: 4
Score: 100
Joined: 5/22/2005
Last Login: 3/24/2009
From: Hamilton, OH, USA
Status: offline 		As a licensed A&P, IA,Pilot and TURBINE shop owner I can tell you this, indeed a radial engine has a very cool sound and should be appreciated by all aviation buffs for its history in aviation. I know why people like them, especially WW II buffs. I can tell you first hand, we as human beings evolve to better things for a reason. In this case it is safety and efficiency, no matter what you are told, a radial requires constant attention and maintenance and typically will not make TBO or even close for that matter. They often in fact, eject cylinders as they pass over. As for the V-type 12 cylinders, we performed a gear up repair on a P-40 (tail wheel collapse). Quote from the pilot "If I run her hard "over 250 kts she won't last 100hrs". Well folks, if you were running a business, had your family aboard, YOU would have a boring old turbine. You already do, you fly the airlines and they go with what the general population wants, cheap fare, and safety. There you go!
Now, at an airshow, or a toy meant for fun, Give me a Merlin anytime!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Hide Signatures

(in reply to airbatic)
       Post #: 48

RE: TURBINES ARE RUINING AVIATION - 6/19/2005 8:15 PM   
Hircflyer



Posts: 847
Score: 100
Joined: 12/6/2001
Last Login: 3/19/2010
From: Kailua, HI, USA
Status: offline 		Mr. Robinson, I can't believe you didn't include the Douglas DC-6A, C-118A , on your list of R-2800 powered aircraft..great aircraft and engine combination. Best time I ever had workiing on aircraft was with this airplane.................worst time, trying to start a R-4360 installed on the KC-97 at 30 degrees below zero.........Plattsburgh AFB 1958-1963. Sorry, never saw a R-4350.

_____________________________

Finally! Everyday is a weekend

Hide Signatures

(in reply to jetfixr123)
       Post #: 49

RE: TURBINES ARE RUINING AVIATION - 6/19/2005 8:53 PM   
William Robison



Posts: 20269
Score: 109
Joined: 11/10/2002
Last Login: 1/30/2007
From: Mary Esther, Florida, FL, USA
Status: offline 		Fixer:

You are making the point for me. A "Hoover" with a 10K hour hot section time isn't uncommon, but I doubt I'll ever see that with a piston engine.

The old "Standard" was 800 haour TBO on a radial, but with modern oils that has gone by the board.

Our most popular current radial, the P&W R-985 is rated at 1500 hours, many have reached 2000 hours before tear down. And my oft repeated favorite, the P&W R-2800 was rated at a 3000 hour TBO in the last versions.

You mentioned the P-40 and its 100 hours running at high air speeds. The Rolls-Royce Merlin V-1650 was, in most versions, rated at 200 hours maximum engine LIFE, not TBO, and the Alison V-1710 in the P-40 was not as long lived as the Merlin. If your buddy with the P-40 is getting 100 hours TBO he's doing well.

Just as a side note - The Alison V-1710s were going for scrap prices in 1946 and 1947, around 1955 I bought a new in crate V-1710 for overdue storage charges from a warehouse in Norfolk Virgina, I think it was somewhere around $200 total.

HiRC:

I did list the Douglas DC-6 series planes, and the Fairchild C-123. Granted I did not list the C-118 but there were a lot of others I left off as well. Had I listed all I know the post would have been a lot longer, and I probably would still have missed some.

A turbime powereed machine, to repeat, has nothing to do with aviation. Sure, they are relatively inexpensive to operate, almost never break (except the rudders on Airbus), and are little more than Greyhound busses that don't keep their wheels on the ground. Yes, with the turbine power it's faster and you have to go through a lot more bull crap to get in, but Greyhound and Delta do not have many other differences beyond the ticket price.

A piston pilot is an aviator. Some one tooling around with turbines is an overpaid bus driver.

Bill.

_____________________________

Real Airplanes have Two Engines
AMA 25139 - More than 40 years.

Hide Signatures

(in reply to Hircflyer)
       Post #: 50

Page:   <<   < prev  1 [2] 3 4 5   next >   >>  
All Forums >> Radios, Batteries, Clubhouse and more >> Full Scale planes, cars, helis, boats >> Airplanes - Full Scale >> RE: TURBINES ARE RUINING AVIATION
Page: <<   < prev  1 [2] 3 4 5   next >   >>  




Jump to:


 
Google 



Search | Marketplace | Event Calendar | Local Clubs | Magazine | Product Ratings | New Products | Discussion Forums

Photo Gallery | Instructor Search | Field|Track|Marina Search

Advertisers | Hobby Vendor Resources | Rate Manufacturers | Sign In/Sign Up

SITE MAP!   : :   FORUM RULES

© 2001 - 2007 24-7 RC, LLC, all rights reserved.

Charities we support that also need your help
Yorkie Rescue | Humane Society | ASPCA | Crohn's-Colitis America


1.828RCU1