RE: TURBINES ARE RUINING AVIATION (Full Version)

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William Robison -> RE: TURBINES ARE RUINING AVIATION (8/7/2005 7:05 AM)

Bear:

Just scratch a Rare Bear all for yourself. Use this engine without the collector ring. Only 14 cylinders instead of 18, but without the collector ring I'll bet it sounds a lot like the one you see at Reno.

Bill.



rare_bear -> RE: TURBINES ARE RUINING AVIATION (8/8/2005 6:16 AM)

WOW!

i think if i had a rare bear with THAT engine in it, i would certainly not fly it at sepulveda basin - lol - at least not without switching over to a HAM radio band. there are so many glitch radio hits out at sepulveda, i'd hate to loose that engine. how much ya think that engine cost to build and where did you find it? on RCU?

**** S L A P ****

sorry 'bout that, i had to slap myself out of a fantasy [sm=lol.gif]
and with a bit of help from google, i found a 1/4 scale radial site... and why stop at 14 cylinders? go for the gusto of 18:

http://www.agelessengines.com/default.html

http://www.agelessengines.com/18cylpics.html



William Robison -> RE: TURBINES ARE RUINING AVIATION (8/8/2005 7:25 AM)

Bear:

It is a Seidel engine. Price? Don't know, but you might find a late model Cadillac for about the same money.

The Seidel engines are as hard to get as the Technopower.

Here's an RCU thread about Seidel sales, and sonme other things.

Bill.



William Robison -> RE: TURBINES ARE RUINING AVIATION (8/8/2005 7:48 AM)

Bear:

I've looked at the Hodgson engines before, I don't think they would make very good engines for a flying model.

Why? To start with they are pressure lubricated, not bad in itself but an extra complication when you fly. Next, they are gasoline fueled, spark ignition. Combine that with their high weight and you end up with a boat anchor. Alcohol fuel? If it is mechanically strong enough you might have enough power to fly.

The Hodgson engines do run, but they are intended for display running, not in a flying plane.

It's a shame, they are pretty.

Bill.



David Cutler -> RE: TURBINES ARE RUINING AVIATION (8/8/2005 7:53 AM)

quote:

I've looked at the Hodgson engines before, I don't think they would make very good engines for a flying model.


You could always try one of these fitted in a WM Dago Red....






William Robison -> RE: TURBINES ARE RUINING AVIATION (8/8/2005 8:02 AM)

David:

The last side wheeler steam ship I was on had a two cylinder double acting "Walking beam" engine similar to your picture, but it was a H*** of a lot larger.

It was a car ferry, named the "Chesapeake," running from Norfolk Virginia to Newport News. It was also the only steam powered ferry, the others were all diesel.

When the bridge/tunnel opened from Norfolk to the peninsula the ferries were all retired and sold.

As memory serves, the Chesapeake was lost at sea in transit to her new home.

Bill.



old git -> RE: TURBINES ARE RUINING AVIATION (8/12/2005 1:20 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: britbrat

Round engines are a bit like helicopters -- lots of sound & fury, while continually trying to shed vital parts.


I remember with affection the Simmonds Nuts Advertisments. A squirrel collecting the loose parts as they fell from the aircraft on take off.

Carrier based mechanics had marked tools because they sometimes were left loose in the airframe with serious results.

A few years back, seven hundredweight of parts were swept from the main runway at Heathrow and a "spare part" is purported to have led to the loss of Concorde.

Shuttle just landed safely.

My own experience of losing parts was with a heavily modified Triumph motorcycle, it shed parts like autumn leaves. Later working on the GT 40 at Banbury Avenue UK for Ford Advanced Vehicles we were introduced to a silly American idea, Locking wire. It was seen as total overkill by most of the workforce. Management bought us locking wire pliers and suddenly it became BRILLIANT idea.

Entropy is the "driving force"; eventually all is chaos, some of us are obviously nearer to that state as are our full size and model creations.

John L.




Fix-it -> RE: TURBINES ARE RUINING AVIATION (8/25/2005 5:47 AM)

I think you have that backwards, MD was bought by Boeing, thus the "Boeing 717" instead of the MD95. The money maker for Boeing in the deal was getting the Delta rocket line and MDs expertise in spacecraft and military hardware. MD commercial aircraft sales had been losing ground to Airbus and Boeing for years before the "Merger".

I sure enjoyed talking with the MD tech support people in Long Beach, CA. They just had a more friendly stlye than the white shirt/black tie guys in Seattle. Not knocking Boeing engineering and support, they always worked hard and came through with an answer, just the Long Beach guys seemed to enjoy life more.



Grampaw -> RE: TURBINES ARE RUINING AVIATION (8/31/2005 11:17 AM)

This thread was some great reading guys, with points made in all corners. Me, I grew up in the early 40's, and most of you know what that means huh? Yeah, WWII. And with several airbases around I heard a lot of different engines. As soon as I'd hear an airplane I'd run outside the house see what it was. Got to where I could ID a Mustang, P-38, Jug, or Stearman before I hit the door. Squardron formation fly overs by B-17s were fantastic! Even Piper and Taylorcraft "Grasshoppers" would do it for me. Then I grew up, and through somehow wound up as a Squad Leader in the Marine Corps during 1950/51 in the Korean thing...we called it a war. While there, I came to know quite well the comforting sound of those ole Hognosed F-4Us as they showed up to help us out when we needed them most. Now, 55 years later, the one sound that sends chills up the back of my neck are from two synched PW powered Ag-Cats at cruise rpm swinging by overhead on their way to the far end of the Bean patch. My vote is on the Round Engines. Then too I don't have to ride in an open cockpit all day long behind that round devil.



icemannwt -> RE: TURBINES ARE RUINING AVIATION (9/1/2005 7:22 AM)

I love you guys. Radials, aye.

http://spaces.msn.com/members/PontoonLake/



William Robison -> RE: TURBINES ARE RUINING AVIATION (9/1/2005 9:41 AM)

Iceman:

You might want to check this thread also.

Bill.

EDIT:> That thread is nothing but radials. wr.



icemannwt -> RE: TURBINES ARE RUINING AVIATION (9/1/2005 8:21 PM)

Thanks Bill.

In the late 70's PW 1340s were getting rare. (In our neck of the woods, anyway) One of our local bush plane operators needed a new engine for his DHC-3 Otter. Couldn't get a P&W, so he ended up putting a Polish Radial in her. We all called her The Polish Princess. She was horrid, sounded not like a proper Otter at all. The Polish engine had significantly less power and never worked right. Did I mention the owner was regarded with thinly veiled scorn by those in the know?

Last night,I looked at the picture of The Blue Angels F-18 doing the afterburner take-off. The question was posed, 'can your radial do that?' Well, a DHC-2 Beaver could, in slow motion. Also the Maule Rocket could do a pretty good imitation........but it had an H/O Lycoming or Continental.

So, the debate rages on. What was the best bush plane of all time?

Ugh! Great Silver Bird leap into sky, swiftly like arrow! Whiteman's Magic............considering density/altitude. [:D]



icemannwt -> RE: TURBINES ARE RUINING AVIATION (9/1/2005 9:39 PM)

Drat!. How do I insert a picture in here?



William Robison -> RE: TURBINES ARE RUINING AVIATION (9/1/2005 9:59 PM)

Ice:

Surely you are not saying the Martin "Mars" was the best bush plane of all time?

Bill.



icemannwt -> RE: TURBINES ARE RUINING AVIATION (9/1/2005 10:04 PM)

Gentlemen. Pardon me for intruding, I shall not become a pest, I promise. I just love everything about radial aero engines, that's all.
A couple of years ago, we had two, large, out of controll forset fire in the area. Aerial tankers of all sorts were employed, resulting in a massive airshow that may not be repeated in a long time, if ever again. This Mars bomber flew right over my house several times, each time, the earth shook and the hair on my neck and arms stood up. In-bloody-credible!

Many people took many photos, should you care to browse/peek at them, go here:

http://castanet.firewatch.net/firepics2/firepics2/index.html

Radial vs Turbine. A classic picture I think:



icemannwt -> RE: TURBINES ARE RUINING AVIATION (9/1/2005 10:13 PM)

Bill. Nope, I'm not. I just included the pictures coz I think it's way cool and, I think it's the biggest thing still flying with radials, there are two left. Someone was talking about big 'boats'. My vote for best bush plane actually goes to the single Otter............over



bugchaser -> RE: TURBINES ARE RUINING AVIATION (9/2/2005 10:59 AM)

Anyone who thinks that turbines are ruining aviation has not spent enough time stairing between the cylinders of a radial engine. Although I am not getting near as much practice at gliding. Seriously, the switch to turbine power has been a tremendous benefit to those of us in the Ag business. I have thousands of hours flying 985's and 1340's, and am glad I got to experience that. However, the reliability of those engines is starting to get a little sketchy. It's also nice to not get dirty every time you get around your airplane.



EASYTIGER -> RE: TURBINES ARE RUINING AVIATION (9/2/2005 5:50 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: old git


quote:

ORIGINAL: britbrat

Round engines are a bit like helicopters -- lots of sound & fury, while continually trying to shed vital parts.


I remember with affection the Simmonds Nuts Advertisments. A squirrel collecting the loose parts as they fell from the aircraft on take off.

Carrier based mechanics had marked tools because they sometimes were left loose in the airframe with serious results.

A few years back, seven hundredweight of parts were swept from the main runway at Heathrow and a "spare part" is purported to have led to the loss of Concorde.

Shuttle just landed safely.

My own experience of losing parts was with a heavily modified Triumph motorcycle, it shed parts like autumn leaves. Later working on the GT 40 at Banbury Avenue UK for Ford Advanced Vehicles we were introduced to a silly American idea, Locking wire. It was seen as total overkill by most of the workforce. Management bought us locking wire pliers and suddenly it became BRILLIANT idea.

Entropy is the "driving force"; eventually all is chaos, some of us are obviously nearer to that state as are our full size and model creations.

John L.




Hallo, git!
That's FUNNY! I took my buddy's freshly restored Bonneville out for a two mile ride and came back minus the headlight bezel, one turn signal, and a footpeg, just fell off.



icemannwt -> RE: TURBINES ARE RUINING AVIATION (9/3/2005 1:28 AM)

115/145, such a heady aroma! Ah, Av-Gas in the morning.......the smell of Victory. [:)]



Grampaw -> RE: TURBINES ARE RUINING AVIATION (9/10/2005 10:05 AM)

Germany had surrendered ending the European part of WWII but the war in the Pacific with Japan was still a thorn in our sides.
I was a young teenager with eyes glued to the sky, and my ears tuned to any noise similar to an airplane engine. Late one afternoon I was out back feeding my dog and her pups when I heard the strangest sound. I knew it was a big plane, bigger than anything I had ever seen yet, so I ran around the other side of the house so as not to miss it, whatever it was. What I saw stopped me dead in my tracks and my jaw hit the ground in amazement! Coming up on the south side of the property about five tall pine trees high was the first Boeing B-29 I ever laid eyes on! God it was big! As it made a 180 back of the house, kind of like a pylon turn then level off to head back North I got a better, and closer look and the big old bird, and it took my breath away. I was amazed that anything that big could manuever around that low! We had lots of B-17s and B-24s flying over during the war, but never that low. Those big radials were just purring, all in synch making the ground rumble. What a sight...and what a plane! I must have been the only kid in town to see it, as no one that I later told about admitted to seeing it. Like catching that big one with no one around. Then again, some didn't believe me. But when the news came out about the Enola Gay and Hiroshima, I began to get some strange looks. We later heard that a group of them were stationed about 30 miles from us, and before heading to California then out to Guam, they practiced low level flights in our area. Round engines always make me misty eyed.



icemannwt -> RE: TURBINES ARE RUINING AVIATION (9/13/2005 8:10 PM)

http://www.unrealaircraft.com/classics/brab.php

Mine was the Brabazon. Post war London. 6 years old. Standing in the playground, watching in awe, as sheparded by a flight of Spitfires, it flew overhead. End of Empire, but I didn't know that.

Oh yeah, radials are great, but them Merlins were pretty cool too.



CharlieK -> RE: TURBINES ARE RUINING AVIATION (10/21/2005 10:11 PM)

real airplanes have two wood wings, round engines, and the little wheel in the back. anything else is an imitation.
charliek



round engines don't leak oil they just mark their territory



MajorTomski -> RE: TURBINES ARE RUINING AVIATION (10/21/2005 11:22 PM)

The day I interviewed for my job with the FAA, their last DC-3 was parked between two hangars here in OKC. As I left the interview and walked passed the plane someone cranked her up. The 1830s were just music to my ears! My only thought was !QUOT!Man, I've got to work here!!QUOT!

Over this past year, as an additional duty I'm now the crew chief on that same old DC-3, and the music is still there!

My oddest recollection of the 1830s is just how mechanically noisy they are at startup. When they are sitting at 1000RPM warming up you can hear all the gears and clatter in the valve train.

N34 should be on the airshow circuit next year too.

T



icemannwt -> RE: TURBINES ARE RUINING AVIATION (10/22/2005 6:04 AM)

Hi Tomski;

The FAA has only one? Peshaw! I fart in their general direction. :-) LoL. Check out Buffalo Airways:

http://www.airliners.net/search/photo.search?airlinesearch=Buffalo%20Airways&distinct_entry=true

Cheers.

I.



vlizard -> RE: TURBINES ARE RUINING AVIATION (10/22/2005 7:32 AM)

I'll second the motion. Of course I'll end up in the next rubber room but hey, I'll be smilin'.



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