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RE: Cloud Bound 4 - 8/13/2004 12:36:49 AM   
hattend



Posts: 2050
Joined: 11/29/2001
From: Redding, CA, USA
Status: online 		Mike, if you start yours, it may (key word: MAY) give me incentive to start mine. I have another project on the table right now but it wouldn't be the first time that I set it aside to start in on something else.

Post the building pics ;-)

Don

(in reply to McLeodAviation)
       Post #: 26

RE: Cloud Bound 4 - 8/13/2004 1:44:05 AM   
McLeodAviation


 

Posts: 208
Joined: 7/7/2003
From: Austin, TX, USA
Status: offline 		Hi Don,

You should also build your Cloud Bound 4! It would be fun comparing the progress of our models. Go for it!!!!! I also set my last project aside to build the Cloud Bound 4!

I will post pictures when I begin construction this weekend.

Cloudbound, Mike

(in reply to hattend)
       Post #: 27

RE: Cloud Bound 4 - 8/13/2004 2:36:05 AM   
doeseburg


 

Posts: 6
Joined: 9/12/2003
From: Williamston, MI, USA
Status: offline 		I'm removing the covering to take out some weight in the tail section - by various methods - it's now over-built because I didn't see Ray's tips until I was done with the fuselage.

Oh, another couple things -
1) It may have been just my setup, but the pushrod-tube assembly provided in the kit gave a vague response near center (around 1/8" total play). I replaced with CF pushrods.
2) Take some time to think about how your going to tie the control to the tail pieces, my setup is ok, but I think there something better out there.
3) The joiner between the tail sections and the fuselage are not that obvious, take some time here to make it look good - there will be shaping required.

(in reply to McLeodAviation)
       Post #: 28

RE: Cloud Bound 4 - 8/13/2004 6:50:28 PM   
Rick K


 

Posts: 260
Joined: 11/16/2003
From: Fontana, CA, USA
Status: offline 		That 16oz nose weight is not suprising when you consider "arm-moment' balance. Lets say the fuse is 20" long from the CG and the nose 5" . . . if you over-build the tail just two oz. it's going to take 8oz in the nose to balance, tail 25" nose weight needed 10oz. The formula being: tail distance from CG in inches X weight / nose distance from CG = nose wt. needed. The closer you have to place the weight to the CG in the nose the more it's going to take. If you can, use a higher capacity (heavier) Rx battery as far fwd. as you can. If you have to add weight it might as well be useful weight rather than just 'dead-weight' to have to haul around.
Rick K

(in reply to McLeodAviation)
       Post #: 29

RE: Cloud Bound 4 - 8/13/2004 9:19:58 PM   
Rick K


 

Posts: 260
Joined: 11/16/2003
From: Fontana, CA, USA
Status: offline 		Back again, After thinking it over I wasn't so sure my formula was correct, I learned it 29 years ago as a 'Warrent officer flight training canadate' in the Air Force. Decided to prove the equation with the help of a yard-stick and some 1/4oz. fishing sinkers . . . My memory served me well, it works. I guess I just thought it over too long, to the point of confusing myself as to it being a valid equation, Lord knows math wasn't and isn't my best subject and math is one of those that if not used is losed. My little girls just went back to school last week, Yikes! . . .ALGEBRA . . . in the third grade????? and she'll expect me to help her!!! OH NOOOO!
Rick K

As one may see, spelling was another subject that I wasn't/isn't so hot in either.

< Message edited by Rick K -- 8/13/2004 9:26:15 PM >

(in reply to Rick K)
       Post #: 30

RE: Cloud Bound 4 - 8/14/2004 1:53:11 AM   
McLeodAviation


 

Posts: 208
Joined: 7/7/2003
From: Austin, TX, USA
Status: offline 		Guess I won't worry about balancing until my CB4 is finished. I thought about making the nose longer but will build as on the plans. If any extra nose weight is needed I will start by adding a larger battery pack like Rick said. You never know, I might even have some very long flights on a day with great thermals. Sure don't want my receiver battery running low!

There was a part rubber banded with my fuselage parts and I didn"t know where it goes? It is not on the plans! I emailed Skybench and Ray said it is an optional fuselage stiffner for fuselage bottom.

Ray also said he is starting a four week vacation today and will not answer any more emails until September 12th. Hopefully I won't have any more questions before then!

Cloudbound, Mike

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< Message edited by McLeodAviation -- 8/14/2004 1:55:45 AM >

(in reply to Rick K)
       Post #: 31

RE: Cloud Bound 4 - 8/14/2004 7:38:39 PM   
hattend



Posts: 2050
Joined: 11/29/2001
From: Redding, CA, USA
Status: online 		Oh No! PICTURES!

That does it, I'm going to have to dig my CB4 box out of the kit stack and start cleaning for a build.

Thanks Mike (grrrr )
Don

(in reply to McLeodAviation)
       Post #: 32

RE: Cloud Bound 4 - 8/14/2004 7:53:15 PM   
Rick K


 

Posts: 260
Joined: 11/16/2003
From: Fontana, CA, USA
Status: offline 		Happy Saturday Mike, Yeah there's not much use in worrying now about it except when building the tail keep the weight issue in mind. As Ray recommened I epoxyed 1/2" X 6" .007 carbon fiber strips in the 'wrist' of the tail placing it with 3" fwd & rwd of the LE of the Horz stab. on all four sides. I've had fuse spliting problems in the past with other planes in this area so agreed with Ray on this one even though I know it's going to add weight I don't want, but as I don't want the tail to break off after a couple of flights I did it.

I've had more than a few flights of longer than an hour (sore neck) and pushed my luck farther than I should have many times. I usualy chickened out at 75min. (600mah batt. that tested out to 85min. duration) but always wished I had more battery, easier on the nerves!

I just got a 'bonk' sound from my computer that tells me you may have just posted, soon as I'm done I'll take a look. Your bench's back edge looks just like mine! When I set it up I hung a 5' X 5' peg-board behind and above it and put a 5' X 10" shelf 10" above the bench also to keep the clutter down and the tools off the bench . . . now I have two stories of junk sitting there and all kinds of stuff hanging on the peg board, about 40% having nothing to do with the hobby and still have a bunch of stuff on the supposed work surface. I think even if one had a bench twenty feet long, five feet wide you still would end up with around 2sq. ft. of usable work space. Every once in awhile I take a half hour or so to straighten everything out.

Oh, last night I happend to take a look at my fuse, to my surprise it's 36" from CG to tail. That'd means for my example of 2oz. of over weight in the tail it'd need 14.4oz in the nose to balance!!! That means that you'd have 1lb of extra weight on my supposed 60 something oz. plane . . . brings it to 135% of the design weight of my plane. Not good if your into 'floaters' as I am or very 'healthy' for the plane upon landing.

Rick K
P.S. I just figured out that's it's not my spelling that's so bad, my cordless keyboard needs new batts. After two years on this set I guess so. I knew I wasn't that bad.

< Message edited by Rick K -- 8/15/2004 7:36:26 AM >

(in reply to McLeodAviation)
       Post #: 33

RE: Cloud Bound 4 - 8/16/2004 9:29:07 PM   
Rick K


 

Posts: 260
Joined: 11/16/2003
From: Fontana, CA, USA
Status: offline 		Hi guys, I guess what I was trying to stress is back in the 'old days' when these kits were designed they did everything possible to keep the weight down to minimize the sink rate and maximize the 'float' factor. That meant they used the minimal structure and materials that would still do the job.

Iv'e seen many a wing fail on launch or tail break on landing because the plane exceeded the design weight, overstressing the structure. These planes at the time were state of the art, all out competition craft then flown by expert pilots not 'Sunday flyers' flown by casual pilots. Thats why with Ray's Skybench aerotech versions of these classics he's made so many Mods. to improve durability. I think he knows his stuff in that dept. and wouldn't recommend doing more there, he's done it for you.

The problem with over weight tails is more than just having to add so much extra nose weight to balance, but how much additional stress that extra weight puts on the ever problematic wrist section of the fuse just foward of the tail. Small cross-section with huge torsional load. Every plane that I ever had a structural failure with the failure was there even with a moderately rough landing, not a cartwheeling, ground loop type of crash landing. Well take it for what it's worth.
Rick K
LSF 6493

< Message edited by Rick K -- 8/16/2004 9:32:26 PM >

(in reply to Rick K)
       Post #: 34

RE: Cloud Bound 4 - 8/17/2004 1:04:54 AM   
McLeodAviation


 

Posts: 208
Joined: 7/7/2003
From: Austin, TX, USA
Status: offline 		Hi everyone,

I had a very busy weekend and have much to do this week!!! I haven't had time to work on my Cloud Bound 4. I did study the plans and parts some more.

I'm happy to hear Don may start building his CB4. We can help each other with construction. This is a hard kit to build. No construction photos makes me confused.

Like Rick said, study all parts well before gluing.

I like the original open construction of the rear fuselage section. This looks great with transparent monokote. One of the Skybench modifications is to plank the sides of the fuse with sheet balsa. Don't think I will do this to my model and keep the original open construction appearance.

On the plan, the front fuselage sides have the open areas filled with 1/4 sheet balsa. Think I might cut out my forward fuse sides from solid 1/4" sheet. This is much easier.

Cloudbound, Mike

< Message edited by McLeodAviation -- 9/5/2004 8:20:05 AM >

(in reply to Rick K)
       Post #: 35

RE: Cloud Bound 4 - 8/17/2004 2:56:29 AM   
Rick K


 

Posts: 260
Joined: 11/16/2003
From: Fontana, CA, USA
Status: offline 		Good evening Mike, Isn't that the way is always is, when I'm iching to build there always seems to be a million things to do around the house and my very own personel 'foreman' (also known as my wife) is a rather stern taskmaster as my mother before her was. I remember as a Kid how I'd be thinking 'humm, fine day to go to the beach" my mom would think it was a fine day for gardening and you can guess who the 'gardener' was to be. Thats another reason why my kit is taking me so long.
Rick K
LSF 6493

(in reply to McLeodAviation)
       Post #: 36

RE: Cloud Bound 4 - 8/17/2004 4:29:45 PM   
hattend



Posts: 2050
Joined: 11/29/2001
From: Redding, CA, USA
Status: online
quote:

ORIGINAL: McLeodAviation

I'm happy to hear Don may start building his CB4. We can help each other with construction. This is a hard kit to build. No construction photos makes me confused.

Cloudbound, Mike


Yep, I finished up joining/sanding the wing panels on my St Croix LongEze and that only took me about a month. What a PITA. The CB4 box is now sitting on the building table and I looked at the plans last night. I'm probably not going to get to it until the weekend (if then). I'm getting married in 17 days so I have a lot more important things on my mind. After that I have the honeymoon and the Reno Air Races.

Chances are it will be the end of September/early October before I start construction. You'll probably be done by then.

I'm like Rick K...only different...LOL Priorities Priorities

Don

(in reply to McLeodAviation)
       Post #: 37

RE: Cloud Bound 4 - 8/18/2004 7:03:40 PM   
McLeodAviation


 

Posts: 208
Joined: 7/7/2003
From: Austin, TX, USA
Status: offline 		Rick, Thanks again for all tips and suggestions.

Don, Congratulations on your upcoming marriage!

I will post construction pictures soon.

Cloudbound, Mike

< Message edited by McLeodAviation -- 8/19/2004 12:42:59 AM >

(in reply to hattend)
       Post #: 38

RE: Cloud Bound 4 - 8/23/2004 8:38:23 AM   
McLeodAviation


 

Posts: 208
Joined: 7/7/2003
From: Austin, TX, USA
Status: offline 		Hi,

I worked on my Cloud Bound 4 this weekend! I completed the fuselage sides.

I made my forward fuselage sections from solid 1/4" balsa sheet. I made a templete off the plan. This is much easier than the original construction method. The original method used 1/4" stick cross braces and the open areas were filled with 1/4" sheet. The end result was a solid 1/4" sheet.

Cloudbound, Mike

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(in reply to McLeodAviation)
       Post #: 39

RE: Cloud Bound 4 - 8/27/2004 5:42:42 AM