RE: Home-brewing fuel  
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All Forums >> Glow Engines, Gas Engines, Fuel & Mfg Support Forums >> RC Fuels >> RE: Home-brewing fuel
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RE: Home-brewing fuel - 10/2/2003 3:12:35 AM   
rsieminski



Posts: 1406
Joined: 4/24/2002
From: Sarasota, FL, USA
Status: offline 		Every time I buy it, it has a yellow tint to it.

(in reply to Sport_Pilot)
       Post #: 151

RE: Is there really a savings??? - 10/2/2003 1:27:22 PM   
Sport_Pilot



Posts: 7451
Joined: 1/21/2002
From: Acworth, GA, USA
Status: offline 		Haven't mixed fuel in a long time but planning too in the near future and have been shopping, the prices below is the best quote to date.

Methanol - $2.5 per gallon.
Nitro - $48 per gallon.
Coolpower and castor pre mixed oil $22 per gallon.

I can get Omega 15% nitro fue;l in this area for just under $16 per gallon so to mix it myself.

Nitro 15% = .15*48=..$7.20
Oil 17% = .17*22=.....$3.74
Methanol = .68*2.5=..$1.70
Total $12.64

If I buy 5 gallons of nitro I can get it for under $33 per gallon which would reduce the cost to $10.39.

(in reply to Capgains)
       Post #: 152

RE: Home-brewing fuel - 10/28/2003 2:22:29 AM   
Brian77


 

Posts: 4
Joined: 5/21/2002
From: Fargo, ND,
Status: offline 		I was thinking about mixing my own fuel, but I don't even think it's worth it. My local club buys it in a 55 gallon drum with 10% and sells it for $10 a gallon to club memebers. Could you tell me if anybody can buy it cheaper or make it than that price?

(in reply to volare)
       Post #: 153

RE: Home-brewing fuel - 10/28/2003 2:53:15 AM   
rsieminski



Posts: 1406
Joined: 4/24/2002
From: Sarasota, FL, USA
Status: offline 		Ask Brian Cooper for a quote. I know his fuel is better than most, and his syn oil is superb. He might be able to match their price, and deliver a higher quality fuel.
Tell him Rick sent you: ccbfuels@iserv.net


_____________________________

Tons of new content on my site:
[link]http://mywebpages.comcast.net/webmaster01/[/link]

(in reply to Brian77)
       Post #: 154

RE: Home-brewing fuel - 10/28/2003 6:59:29 PM   
Capgains



Posts: 238
Joined: 2/27/2002
From: Klamath Falls, OR, USA
Status: offline 		If your club is buying a drum, make sure they are putting the entire drum into one gallon bottles after the first tapping. If the drum sits around over time partially full after being exposed to air (and moisture) the fuel quality will degrade. The best way is to gather up a bunch of bottles, sealed after the transfer, and store them instead.

Dan

(in reply to Brian77)
       Post #: 155

RE: Home-brewing fuel - 10/29/2003 5:51:44 AM   
rslstft


 

Posts: 178
Joined: 5/1/2002
From: Tustin, CA, USA
Status: offline 		We go through about two 55 gallon drums of nitro a weekend. It always has a yellow tint in it as a indicator for contamination or additives. It WILL turn a color if contaminated (usually purple). I take the left over nitro in the bottom of the drum and transfer it to a good sealing fuel jug (5 gal size). As long as the jug is not subjected to temperature extremes and direct sunlight, I have kept and used it for as long as a year without any detrimental effects. The menthanol is a different story as it will absorb moisture from the air. Use it in a relatively short time or replace it fairly often. I have always used Klotz oil, full synthetic for blends over 15%, for over 2 years and have never had a problem.

Russ

(in reply to Capgains)
       Post #: 156

RE: Home-brewing fuel - 10/29/2003 12:52:26 PM   
Sport_Pilot



Posts: 7451
Joined: 1/21/2002
From: Acworth, GA, USA
Status: offline 		If you cap the drum after each use then there should be no problem using methanol over a long period. Even 55 gallons of air will not contain enough moisture to make a huge differance, though I would pour off the last 10 gallons or so into 5 gallon containers. A 55 gallon drum will hold only about a half pound of air. At 90 degrees and 100% humidity the moisture content of the air is only .03 pounds of water. So I don't see any need to hurry up to use the fuel.

(in reply to Capgains)
       Post #: 157

RE: Home-brewing fuel - 11/2/2003 1:16:00 PM   
russellk


 

Posts: 77
Joined: 7/15/2003
From: Canberra, AUSTRALIA
Status: offline 		Cheers for that comment Sport_Pilot - I've got a month-old 55 gallon drum of methanol sitting in a back shed which I'm half way through (my mates are having problems getting enough containers to claim their share), but was starting to worry about moisture buildup. The humidity where I am is pretty low, and the tank is alwys sealed when not being emptied, so I'm guessing it should be fine for another month

(in reply to Sport_Pilot)
       Post #: 158

RE: Home-brewing fuel - 11/3/2003 4:26:27 AM   
Sport_Pilot



Posts: 7451
Joined: 1/21/2002
From: Acworth, GA, USA
Status: offline 		Yes, and actually I notice I made a slight mistake. The humidity ratio was actually .03 pounds of water per pound of dry air, so if a 55 gallon drum holds approximately 1/2 a pound of air, then there would only be .015 pounds of water. As long as you keep an air tight seal, you should be fine.

(in reply to russellk)
       Post #: 159

RE: Home-brewing fuel - 11/3/2003 5:25:56 AM   
russellk


 

Posts: 77
Joined: 7/15/2003
From: Canberra, AUSTRALIA
Status: offline 		Using this calculator:
http://www.overgrow.com/tools/rhumidity.php

And readings from our local weatherstation:
http://www.weatherzone.com.au/observations/history.jsp?wmo=94926&type=metar&name=Canberra

I worked it out that over the last month the times the tank has been opened it has been fairly cool - around 13 degrees C (55F) and 46% RH, which equates to 5 grams of water per cubic metre of air. A cubic metre is 1000 litres, a 55 gallon drum is about 200 litres, so half a drum would have 100 litres of air, or 0.25 grams of water. 0.25gr of water is 0.25ml or .00025 l, so if all moisture was absorbed into the 100l of methanol, it would be .00025/100 or .00025% added water.

Obviously, if things were both hotter and more humid, the amount of water would be greater.

(in reply to Sport_Pilot)
       Post #: 160

RE: Home-brewing fuel - 11/3/2003 7:20:19 AM   
rslstft


 

Posts: 178
Joined: 5/1/2002
From: Tustin, CA, USA
Status: offline 		You guys crack me up! I'll bet you are all correct about the absorption of water in methanol, but everywhere that I have read about usages of methanol for fuel, it warns about leaving the container open. Personally, I would prefer to get rid of the methanol after a while and get some a fresh supply, especially since I pay less than $1.00 a gallon! It leaves one variable out of the equation.

(in reply to russellk)
       Post #: 161

RE: Home-brewing fuel - 11/3/2003 1:20:38 PM   
russellk


 

Posts: 77
Joined: 7/15/2003
From: Canberra, AUSTRALIA
Status: offline 		Hey, point taken, I'm not planning to marry the damn thing! It should all be gone in a month or so, but in the meantime I know I don't need to be overly concerned that the fuel is going bad, and of course I never leave it nor any other of my fuel containers open for more time than it takes to add or remove fuel.

But it does put in perspective exactly how significant the issue of fuel storage is - no-one wants dud fuel mucking up their tuning. This analysis gives me a yardstick for being able to confidently judge what level of care is realistically required.

In another post on this forum, "Downunder" progressively added water to his fuel in order to see at what point performance started to degrade. From memory he started seeing problems above the 3% level. I'm a big fan of scientific analysis and experimentation, so to me, with a little research on the net about humidity and his tests, I've got a much better idea of how water, methanol fuels and glow engines interact. As I said, it won't change how I behave, but it puts me in a better position to make judgements when I see problems.

Oh, and since this is a fuel forum, my current recipe: 15% Klotz KL200 Original Techniplate, 3% castor and 10% VP Racing nitro makes my 12 year old, twice busted ASP .40 swing a 11x6 prop at about 11-12k.

(in reply to rslstft)
       Post #: 162

RE: Home-brewing fuel - 11/3/2003 1:44:27 PM   
Sport_Pilot



Posts: 7451
Joined: 1/21/2002
From: Acworth, GA, USA
Status: offline
quote:

but everywhere that I have read about usages of methanol for fuel, it warns about leaving the container open.


The concern was raised about the air which must displace the fuel after you pump or pour it out. Obviously if you leave your container open you leave it exposed to a nearly infinite supply of moisture, but the small amount of air displaced from pouring the fuel out should not be a problem. I have stated that the drum should be sealed air tight. You need to take more care in reading our posts.

(in reply to rslstft)
       Post #: 163

RE: Home-brewing fuel - 11/3/2003 1:53:56 PM   
Jim Thomerson



Posts: 2778
Joined: 10/9/2002
From: Austin, TX, USA
Status: offline 		How much water does less-than-$1-per-gallon methanol have in it to start with?

Jim

(in reply to Sport_Pilot)
       Post #: 164

RE: Home-brewing fuel - 11/4/2003 2:54:08 AM   
rslstft


 

Posts: 178
Joined: 5/1/2002
From: Tustin, CA, USA
Status: offline 		Probably none at all since I buy directly from VP Fuels, and it's the same methanol used at the races.

(in reply to Jim Thomerson)
       Post #: 165

RE: Home-brewing fuel - 11/5/2003 2:17:05 AM   
webiz49



Posts: 23
Joined: 8/28/2002
From: Harrisburg, IL, USA
Status: offline 		Does anyone know the shelf life of unopene