RE: Home-brewing fuel (Full Version)

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rsieminski -> RE: Home-brewing fuel (10/2/2003 3:12:35 AM)

Every time I buy it, it has a yellow tint to it.



Sport_Pilot -> RE: Is there really a savings??? (10/2/2003 1:27:22 PM)

Haven't mixed fuel in a long time but planning too in the near future and have been shopping, the prices below is the best quote to date.

Methanol - $2.5 per gallon.
Nitro - $48 per gallon.
Coolpower and castor pre mixed oil $22 per gallon.

I can get Omega 15% nitro fue;l in this area for just under $16 per gallon so to mix it myself.

Nitro 15% = .15*48=..$7.20
Oil 17% = .17*22=.....$3.74
Methanol = .68*2.5=..$1.70
Total $12.64

If I buy 5 gallons of nitro I can get it for under $33 per gallon which would reduce the cost to $10.39.



Brian77 -> RE: Home-brewing fuel (10/28/2003 2:22:29 AM)

I was thinking about mixing my own fuel, but I don't even think it's worth it. My local club buys it in a 55 gallon drum with 10% and sells it for $10 a gallon to club memebers. Could you tell me if anybody can buy it cheaper or make it than that price?



rsieminski -> RE: Home-brewing fuel (10/28/2003 2:53:15 AM)

Ask Brian Cooper for a quote. I know his fuel is better than most, and his syn oil is superb. He might be able to match their price, and deliver a higher quality fuel.
Tell him Rick sent you: ccbfuels@iserv.net



Capgains -> RE: Home-brewing fuel (10/28/2003 6:59:29 PM)

If your club is buying a drum, make sure they are putting the entire drum into one gallon bottles after the first tapping. If the drum sits around over time partially full after being exposed to air (and moisture) the fuel quality will degrade. The best way is to gather up a bunch of bottles, sealed after the transfer, and store them instead.

Dan



rslstft -> RE: Home-brewing fuel (10/29/2003 5:51:44 AM)

We go through about two 55 gallon drums of nitro a weekend. It always has a yellow tint in it as a indicator for contamination or additives. It WILL turn a color if contaminated (usually purple). I take the left over nitro in the bottom of the drum and transfer it to a good sealing fuel jug (5 gal size). As long as the jug is not subjected to temperature extremes and direct sunlight, I have kept and used it for as long as a year without any detrimental effects. The menthanol is a different story as it will absorb moisture from the air. Use it in a relatively short time or replace it fairly often. I have always used Klotz oil, full synthetic for blends over 15%, for over 2 years and have never had a problem.

Russ



Sport_Pilot -> RE: Home-brewing fuel (10/29/2003 12:52:26 PM)

If you cap the drum after each use then there should be no problem using methanol over a long period. Even 55 gallons of air will not contain enough moisture to make a huge differance, though I would pour off the last 10 gallons or so into 5 gallon containers. A 55 gallon drum will hold only about a half pound of air. At 90 degrees and 100% humidity the moisture content of the air is only .03 pounds of water. So I don't see any need to hurry up to use the fuel.



russellk -> RE: Home-brewing fuel (11/2/2003 1:16:00 PM)

Cheers for that comment Sport_Pilot - I've got a month-old 55 gallon drum of methanol sitting in a back shed which I'm half way through (my mates are having problems getting enough containers to claim their share), but was starting to worry about moisture buildup. The humidity where I am is pretty low, and the tank is alwys sealed when not being emptied, so I'm guessing it should be fine for another month [;)]



Sport_Pilot -> RE: Home-brewing fuel (11/3/2003 4:26:27 AM)

Yes, and actually I notice I made a slight mistake. The humidity ratio was actually .03 pounds of water per pound of dry air, so if a 55 gallon drum holds approximately 1/2 a pound of air, then there would only be .015 pounds of water. As long as you keep an air tight seal, you should be fine.



russellk -> RE: Home-brewing fuel (11/3/2003 5:25:56 AM)

Using this calculator:
http://www.overgrow.com/tools/rhumidity.php

And readings from our local weatherstation:
http://www.weatherzone.com.au/observations/history.jsp?wmo=94926&type=metar&name=Canberra

I worked it out that over the last month the times the tank has been opened it has been fairly cool - around 13 degrees C (55F) and 46% RH, which equates to 5 grams of water per cubic metre of air. A cubic metre is 1000 litres, a 55 gallon drum is about 200 litres, so half a drum would have 100 litres of air, or 0.25 grams of water. 0.25gr of water is 0.25ml or .00025 l, so if all moisture was absorbed into the 100l of methanol, it would be .00025/100 or .00025% added water.

Obviously, if things were both hotter and more humid, the amount of water would be greater.



rslstft -> RE: Home-brewing fuel (11/3/2003 7:20:19 AM)

You guys crack me up! I'll bet you are all correct about the absorption of water in methanol, but everywhere that I have read about usages of methanol for fuel, it warns about leaving the container open. Personally, I would prefer to get rid of the methanol after a while and get some a fresh supply, especially since I pay less than $1.00 a gallon! It leaves one variable out of the equation.



russellk -> RE: Home-brewing fuel (11/3/2003 1:20:38 PM)

Hey, point taken, I'm not planning to marry the damn thing! It should all be gone in a month or so, but in the meantime I know I don't need to be overly concerned that the fuel is going bad, and of course I never leave it nor any other of my fuel containers open for more time than it takes to add or remove fuel.

But it does put in perspective exactly how significant the issue of fuel storage is - no-one wants dud fuel mucking up their tuning. This analysis gives me a yardstick for being able to confidently judge what level of care is realistically required.

In another post on this forum, "Downunder" progressively added water to his fuel in order to see at what point performance started to degrade. From memory he started seeing problems above the 3% level. I'm a big fan of scientific analysis and experimentation, so to me, with a little research on the net about humidity and his tests, I've got a much better idea of how water, methanol fuels and glow engines interact. As I said, it won't change how I behave, but it puts me in a better position to make judgements when I see problems.

Oh, and since this is a fuel forum, my current recipe: 15% Klotz KL200 Original Techniplate, 3% castor and 10% VP Racing nitro makes my 12 year old, twice busted ASP .40 swing a 11x6 prop at about 11-12k.



Sport_Pilot -> RE: Home-brewing fuel (11/3/2003 1:44:27 PM)

quote:

but everywhere that I have read about usages of methanol for fuel, it warns about leaving the container open.


The concern was raised about the air which must displace the fuel after you pump or pour it out. Obviously if you leave your container open you leave it exposed to a nearly infinite supply of moisture, but the small amount of air displaced from pouring the fuel out should not be a problem. I have stated that the drum should be sealed air tight. You need to take more care in reading our posts.



Jim Thomerson -> RE: Home-brewing fuel (11/3/2003 1:53:56 PM)

How much water does less-than-$1-per-gallon methanol have in it to start with?

Jim



rslstft -> RE: Home-brewing fuel (11/4/2003 2:54:08 AM)

Probably none at all since I buy directly from VP Fuels, and it's the same methanol used at the races.



webiz49 -> RE: Home-brewing fuel (11/5/2003 2:17:05 AM)

Does anyone know the shelf life of unopened nitro?



Sport_Pilot -> RE: Home-brewing fuel (11/5/2003 1:11:31 PM)

Its good as long as it's yellow, not purple. If its clear it doesn't have the indicator and you would just have to try it.



webiz49 -> RE: Home-brewing fuel (11/5/2003 5:20:33 PM)

Thanks for the information!!!!



3d-aholic -> RE: Home-brewing fuel (11/5/2003 5:34:02 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: DrV

I've never mixed fuel before but as I understand it you do the calculations by volume. In your case, by a gallon.

Well 1 gallon approximately = 130oz

2% of 130 = 2.6oz (castor oil)

18% of 130 = 23.4oz (synthetic oil)

10% of 130 = 13oz (nitro)

70% of 130 = 91oz (Methanol)


Add 2.6 + 23.4 + 13 + 91 = 130oz = 1Gallon

At least this is how I understand it. If I'm wrong someone correct me please.

Mike

And, 1 drop of Red Food Coloring.... or Green food coloring depending on what flavor.[:)]



Warren -> RE: Home-brewing fuel (11/5/2003 6:01:21 PM)

128 oz in a gallon by the way...

http://home.pacbell.net/wallred/fuelmix.html



boater -> RE: Home-brewing fuel (11/18/2003 3:13:42 AM)

Just a suggestion, if you have the methanol sitting around for too long, why not just use a bit in the auto, every time you fill up. Will keep the water from separating out in the winter. Cheap methanol is about the same price as gas, though you won't get the same MPG. Better than using it in your fuel and getting a crappy run??????, then go out and get some fresh stuff.



Rebsix -> RE: Home-brewing fuel (11/20/2003 1:49:23 AM)

For the sake of simplicity (for me at least), and to get a 5% nitro mix, how about adding

20% of 20% premix fuel

15% oil

65% methanol
I know the %'s could be figured more exact but for this question these are ok.

Would this work properly?
I can get methanol given to me so that helps the cost factor.

Thanks



rsieminski -> RE: Home-brewing fuel (11/20/2003 12:15:05 PM)

There's a spreadsheet on my website that will do these things for you.



Schpankme -> RE: Home-brewing fuel (12/14/2004 3:17:32 AM)

All,

How has your OIL brand, type and quantity changed from a year ago ?

__________
Schpankme



Fuelman -> RE: Home-brewing fuel (12/22/2004 2:08:02 AM)

If anybody has not yet tried rsieminski's spreadsheet, you're missing out if you're a homebrewer of fuels. I have tried to find mathmatical holes in it and can not. It has some usefull tools in it for adding components to premixes, excellent tool.

I'll start monitoring this thread a bit closer if you guys have any specific questions that you think I could answer.



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