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All Forums >> RC Airplanes >> Pylon Universe - RC Pylon Racing >> QM-40 Racing >> RE: Plastic Props
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RE: Plastic Props - 7/26/2004 3:41:02 PM   
kane


 

Posts: 255
Joined: 6/28/2002
From: Arlington Heights, IL, USA
Status: offline 		What a world we live in...

We have sponge bob loving dad (myself included Tony), an Engineer that can predict the future (myself included Bob), an expert on the english language who frequently tries to suck the worm from the bottom of a Rum bottle (keep trying Ed some day you will find a worm), sorry Gary I couldn't come up with a good one for you other than you are banker from AZ.

Can't we all just get along??

"NO MORE PLASTIC PROPS"

Ed "MY ENGINE COVER IS LEAGAL"

Dan, who lives in a pineapple under the sea, absorbant and yellow and pourous as he, so drop to the deck and flop like a fish, whose nautical notes be something you wish....

(in reply to Ed Smith)
       Post #: 51

RE: Plastic Props - 7/26/2004 4:08:58 PM   
John Z Williams Jr


 

Posts: 121
Joined: 9/17/2003
From: Boulder, CO, USA
Status: offline 		Danny, this was not one person or a couple of people, this was many people stating the black prop was too much load this year, ran fine last year and guys where scrambling to try and find the right prop, most are experienced racers, changing timing and deck spacing was the norm for this years nats, everyone around me was having the same problems and trying to lower and raise the head to find that magic sweet spot, they just did not turn up in the heat and humidity this year... I had my set-up going ok, but still felt the playing field could have been leveled by having at least one more choice in cf props, I am not so sure that just anyone can make a good prop??? I cannot make a straight wing either, I cannot build all that straight, does that mean I am knocked out of competition because of that??? I personally feel another cf prop should be allowed to help level the field for people that can fly well, but maybe just maybe do not have good crafstmanship skills, if I wanted that side, I would go fly scale......
John W.

(in reply to kane)
       Post #: 52

RE: Plastic Props - 7/26/2004 4:31:10 PM   
kane


 

Posts: 255
Joined: 6/28/2002
From: Arlington Heights, IL, USA
Status: offline 		John,

I hear you and understand where you are coming from. I just don't believe that more props are necessary. What doesn't work today, may work tomorrow. That is what competition is all about.

At the Pheonix race, I opened a motor from Dave and bolted it onto my airplane. I didn't touch it. I flew my wood props and my best time was in the 1:04 range. Others were 2 seconds faster than me. Including some black prop users. I didn't start complaining that the black props were too fast and that I was at a disadvantage. And that seems what this discussion is all about. You and I have the same advantages as everyone else. Your choice to run black props is your choice. Because you can't make wood props doesn't mean that you need a better selection of plastic ones. What is Fred, Randy, Travis and others doing to get their airplanes running on the black props? These guys are not slow, are they at a disadvantage because they choose to run black props? Who will benefit from a wider selection of black props? Certainly, not the average Joe, beginner at his/her QM40 meet. The benefit will go to those already competing and feel that they need more speed to be competitive. This is where the argument starts to break down. I don't have special powers that enables me to make top secret wood props. I am a human being just like you. Do I have different skills? Maybe, I don't know. I am just trying to compete to win at the best level I can. I need to know why I am slow and why I am fast and I will not let someone else dictate what I have to do to win.

Dan

(in reply to John Z Williams Jr)
       Post #: 53

RE: Plastic Props - 7/26/2004 5:01:56 PM   
luv to race


 

Posts: 490
Joined: 12/10/2002
From: Liquored, FL,
Status: offline 		Hey Dan,

What kind of blanks are you using? I don't think Lyle even sells the Zinger stuff anymore. Pretty hard to find the old rev-ups.

For all who want to know. I ran 193 to 194 and 14 to 15... obviously I was a low on speed, and pretty much in everybody's way. Maybe the liner should of been lower, or the head higher,who knows. Had I known the weather was going to be so crappy, I would of come prepared with some wood props. Since Travis, Fred and I have teamed up, I don't make wood anymore. But rest assured, I will be prepared from now on.

R. Bridge

(in reply to kane)
       Post #: 54

RE: Plastic Props - 7/26/2004 6:30:12 PM   
kane


 

Posts: 255
Joined: 6/28/2002
From: Arlington Heights, IL, USA
Status: offline 		Randy, what kind of smart !@# question is that? The fact is it is wood, that is all that the rule stipulates. The rules don't state where you have to buy your wood from, do they? Did I miss something?

You hardly were in the way. Get over it. You can't convince me that you were out matched. That day my crap worked and maybe yours didn't. But tomorrow brings a whole new day. So when the spanking occurs, Can I cry on your shoulder and beg for a special black prop?

My point is that you and your team are not slow. The fact that I get a blank from Grunk doesn't mean that anybody in the world couldn't do the same thing. Figure out how to do it and "GET ER DONE".

Dan

< Message edited by kane -- 7/26/2004 6:35:41 PM >

(in reply to luv to race)
       Post #: 55

RE: Plastic Props - 7/26/2004 7:19:35 PM   
luv to race


 

Posts: 490
Joined: 12/10/2002
From: Liquored, FL,
Status: offline 		What do you mean "smart a@# question" ..? can I have Grunky's number? And yes, you can have a prop anytime you wish...

Being serious here: where do we get good blanks these days?? anyone can answer.... There must be a source.

Not seriously complaining about my Q40 performance at the Nats. Nobody was to blame but me for not adjusting properly.

R.Bridge

(in reply to kane)
       Post #: 56

RE: Plastic Props - 7/26/2004 7:41:52 PM   
daven



Posts: 7026
Joined: 12/7/2001
From: Andover, MN, USA
Status: offline 		The problem with one legal CF prop, is that it doesn't always work. Even switching your head/sleeve spacing isn't always enough.

I think an arguement can be made, similar to how they original CF prop was allowed a year or so ago, to allow either slight modifications to the tips, or 1 or 2 more props that are slightly less loaded.

If the new guy, who buys a used engine, can't turn the 7.4x8.0 at a decent rpm to allow it to unload, they are going to get frustrated and quit. Q40 is slowly dying, you can see it in the diminishing numbers at the JR races. Why wouldn't we try to make it a little easier for the newer Q40 racer.

I was one of the few that were able to make the black plastic go in Muncie, but thats just because I have 1 horse of an engine. Unfortunately, the heat I flew against you (Dan) I had wood on the nose, how ironic.

_____________________________

Dave Norman

klasskote.com
supertrc.com

(in reply to luv to race)
       Post #: 57

RE: Plastic Props - 7/26/2004 7:41:56 PM   
John Z Williams Jr


 

Posts: 121
Joined: 9/17/2003
From: Boulder, CO, USA
Status: offline 		I Need Grunks number too! I am just a little po'd I cannot make a good wood prop, If I could make a good wood prop, I would not be arguing the cf side... The black prop usually works fine, but this year in Muncie it was not the best prop to run, at altitude it is not always the best prop to run.... Maybe I should just run races on the west coast??? I think many realize they cannot rely on the black prop to always run fast in all conditions and more wood work is necessary to go fast in adverse conditions...
This could be solved by allowing more cf props, the easy way, as is the exsisting cf prop on the west coast,
the other way is time and money and time and money......... and work, and a radar gun and a good watch and........ and ...... and.....

(in reply to kane)
       Post #: 58

RE: Plastic Props - 7/26/2004 8:27:26 PM   
kane


 

Posts: 255
Joined: 6/28/2002
From: Arlington Heights, IL, USA
Status: offline 		Grunk's props are just blanks. They are touched and massaged by each of us differently. Grunk does his one way, Tom does his another and I do mine a third. Grunk sets up his engine for himself, Tom sets up his engine for himself and I set up mine for me. I cannot tell you what they are running because I do not know. That is their deal.

Lastly, Ray Brown flew plastic and he had the second fastest time of the contest. I guess he figured out how to make it work. And he did it the day of the finals when my times were 2 seconds slower than the day before. Food for thought.

Dan

(in reply to John Z Williams Jr)
       Post #: 59

RE: Plastic Props - 7/26/2004 8:42:37 PM   
daven



Posts: 7026
Joined: 12/7/2001
From: Andover, MN, USA
Status: offline 		Yeah,

I was in that heat with Ray. I wouldn't have thought I would come in second with a 1:04.78

_____________________________

Dave Norman

klasskote.com
supertrc.com

(in reply to kane)
       Post #: 60

RE: Plastic Props - 7/26/2004 8:53:50 PM   
garys


 

Posts: 782
Joined: 1/31/2002
From: San Diego, CA, USA
Status: offline 		If a new prop were to be allowed, what would happen if conditions were such that none of the carbon props worked? Would we again have people saying more should be allowed?

I probably have 8 wood props in my box right now. Many have gone 1:01-1:02's (I haven't figured out how to go under a 1:01), but sometimes, I can't get any of them to go well, even if they're turning in the right RPM range. I still have the prop that I held the record with in 1999. Usually it turns right at 24k---Sometimes it hauls at 24k, sometimes I question whether I'd stay on the same lap as the leader, even though it was turning 24k.

Allowing more props would not guarantee you'd have a fast prop any given day.

Dan mentioned Ray Brown getting the second fastest time of the Nats with plastic. Looking at the fastest times (not finishing position), I think the times looked pretty evenly split between wood and plastic props. Apparently some people had them figured out. Would a lighter prop really help overall?

GS

(in reply to kane)
       Post #: 61

RE: Plastic Props - 7/26/2004 9:38:43 PM   
HighPlains


 

Posts: 2723
Joined: 3/2/2003
From: Over da rainbow, KS, USA
Status: offline 		Well, it's about like Quickie. Fred has made so many, yet I only use 2 or 3 different sizes. I know that the low pitch 8 3/4 will run in any condition, but on really good days or after the morning moisture is gone and the day heats up, I can switch to slightly higher pitch to keep the engine in it's power band. If anything, Q40 engines are peaky compared to Quickie, so three props with 1/4" change in pitch (all lower) will allow the engine to run and needle. I wouldn't expect that the overall speed would change, because the drag of the airplane stays more or less constant, but as the engine gains or loses power one could adjust while maintaining a stock prop. I think that maintaining the prop as stock is important since you no longer have to define and examine what is being raced so closely. No judgements, no arguements, no problems.

I thing that I trust Fred not to go to extremes to wipe out wood props. If he wanted, he could make any pitch combo he likes and stamp it the same and who would be the wiser. There have been some in the past you couldn't trust, but that is a much longer story.

So really it seems that more people are likely to desire three sizes of plastic. Mike H. has been at this longer than me and any three of you and even he is in favor. And I know that he makes damn good props since he has whipped me a number of times in the past.

(in reply to garys)
       Post #: 62

RE: Plastic Props - 7/26/2004 10:17:16 PM   
kane


 

Posts: 255
Joined: 6/28/2002
From: Arlington Heights, IL, USA
Status: offline 		Bob,

Mike uses the Jett engine. The props that he wants may not be the props that you need if you run a Nelson. So are you proposing that we have props that meet the needs of Jett users and the needs of Nelson users. This seems like we need at least 2 more props?

I have a simple solution lets adopt the FAI rules for props and then everything goes.

Just to prove I have run a black prop in competition, here is a spy photo of my airplane.

Attachments
Click to see fullsize image.
Click for fullsize

(in reply to HighPlains)
       Post #: 63

RE: Plastic Props - 7/26/2004 10:30:18 PM   
daven



Posts: 7026
Joined: 12/7/2001
From: Andover, MN, USA
Status: offline 		On that grass field, I wouldn't risk a wood prop either

_____________________________

Dave Norman

klasskote.com
supertrc.com

(in reply to kane)