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RE: DeHavilland Mosquito - 12/10/2012 4:58 PM   
david polley


 

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Status: offline 		Dear badazzgti03,

     Yes, you are experiancing just how Nitroplanes handles these kinds of things...The are not in the parts business much...They make a production run, advertise it to the max with wonderful videos and such, and then drop that model like a bomb and have  the worst customer service system of an any modeling company I have every worked with.... Then when they run out of the kits they have in stock, that is usually when you have to wait for the next production run....It comes along out of China and in my opinion,  take several kits, that were damaged from the overseas trip from China and break them down and combine good parts form different kits and make refurbished kits...

     These are what they are offereing us here in this forum for $225.00 and would explain why they run out of the them pretty quickly......The $400.00 versions they are offering were not the damaged ones..........Then they take the good pieces they have left over and sell them as spare parts.....The do not manufacturer "spare parts" for this kit. Their spare parts are nothing but damaged left overs and when they run out of them, they have to wait for the next shipment of damaged kits to restock their spare parts.....

     Only problem with that is that they have absolutely no standards of which they build the models. When you buy one kit or spare parts, the colors will never match with the model you have...There is no production control, the hardwoods they use  are made out a pourous type of wood called obechie which will not hold a a wood screw in place if it's life depended on it., or well installed brass insert.....

      As you ALL know the instructions are just awful..... and to boot the CG is off several mm..Should be about 110 mm from the leading edge balanced inbetween the nacells and the fuselage...NOT 115 to 120 mm from the leading edge as in the instructions.........

HAS anybody out there REALLY tried to fly this kit with a pair of 25 sized engines.....? Are you kidding me.....Mine really struggled, I mean really struggeled with a pair of O.S. 45 FSR engines that I had.........I  lost my first because it was underpowered (my 45's) and I had the CG set to about 118 mm...

     All of these problems just tell me that they know you are going to crash it right off the bat, and they know at the prices they were offering it for when it came out made it very affordable to give that 2nd model a try...Come on folks, they really know what they are doing when it comes to pulling you in on this one.......That is how they make there money I suspect...I know I have fallen for it myself........

    Yes, what you see verses what makes wanting one of these kits after reading everything does make the decision process very difficult in obtaining the kit and especially keeping it in the air....These are the challenges that we have all been going through...and I have  to tell you.....

HATS OFF to all of the guys who stuck it out and made it work.......

    Like I have said before, if Hanger Nine, Great Planes, Top Flight, or any other fine RC model manufacturing companie would get the hint from this forum and start to produce the model...I know the China Model Products version of this kit would get dumped like a lead brick in an instant..AND I know a bunch of these folks here would jump on attempting this kit again if someone came along and put together a nice ARF of the mosquito with "Oh My Gosh"....you mean "QUALITY" in mind I believe it would sell like hot cakes......I suspect these manufacturers would have to offer their version of the kit for around $525.00 or so to make it right and provide good quality workmanship and a good quality manual......I can tell you...I would buy that kit........It would be worth it from one of these folks....

     Why to date they have not....?

      I suspect the Mosquito is a twin engine model a lot of people would not want to take on, first because it is a "tail dragging twin" Warbird that when you see what is available from the most of the manufacturers are Tri-Gear twin warbirds....Some of them I have seen are The P-38 Lightning...The P-62 Black Widow The A-26 Intruder, and The Mitchell B-25, which has become very popular in our club. I suspect that even the P-82 Twin Mustang kits I have seen have done fairly well because even though this model is indeed a twin tail dragger, they have twin tails which mean twin rudders for much better stability getting it off the ground....The mosquito model just like the real thing  was a real pain to get off the ground too...Many pilots died in crashes just trying to get it off the ground...(sound familiar to some of you guys out there....?)
  
       Not to mention, the biggest issue, unless you have a lot of money and can build a BIG version of the model, we don't have model engines in our size with this kit that will allow "counter rotationg propellers" which would really help getting it this off the gound...

     Of course you could put a gyro in the rudder, but then what is the fun in that...that just takes away the challange in my book.....
Oh well I have complained enough here.... 

      Alas...........I am still deeply hooked on this kit.  I have 3 others in the closet that were damaged I use to get parts from....

    I guess what really gets me on this kit from CMP is they started out with a really nice looking bird. It is a beautiful "looking" model and they do a really nice job on the finish and the paint...You have to give them that....It is so disappointing that the inside is just a shell of the outside...Such a shame that this is the case with this one....................Thanks for listening fellas........

David

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RE: DeHavilland Mosquito - 12/10/2012 6:21 PM   
badazzgti03


 

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well i guess that pretty much sums it up!
It is true it is a nice kit but heavy too. I have 2 GMS .32 for this....are those going to be able to get this bird in the sky?

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RE: DeHavilland Mosquito - 12/10/2012 7:27 PM   
david polley


 

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BaddAzzgti03

When the kit came out for review in Model Aviation back in 2006, The Author used O.S. 32SX engines and 11 x 4 APC props.
     Yes, it flew but in the article he did say that the landing gear broke out...(The obechie wood problem)

To get it to balance you will have to add a LOT of weight to the nose to get it to balance at 110 mm....I have 46 FX engines on mine and still had to add 1 pound of weight to the nose to get it to balance, hence need bigger engines just to get it off the ground... ( I have a paved runway, just about everyone I have talked to with this model has grass runways)

    The gear broke out on everyone unless they really beefed it up first...When your really BEEF UP the gear blocks for retracts or fixed gear..(mine are fixed) and do it right, then add 14 to 16 ounces of weight in the nose. So guess what,  your 32 GMS engines will be just get rolling down the runway and then when you lift off it will snap roll so quick it will be toast as it hits the ground and snaps the wing into pieces.......You need a LOT of power get up to speed quickly so the rudder will start working to aid in getting it off the ground.....

I have a video with O.S. 40 SF engines installed and it was still a struggle...I was very lucky to get it in the air in this video....The very soft Dave Brown Lite wheels really helps...I have to move the rudder back and forth constantly (acting just like a gyro) to keep it straight until it gets up to speed......The landing was even luckier......

www.youtube.com/watch?v=zZPewtLpsCE


    Yes once it is in the air and your engines are tuned correctly, it hauls ass... Getting it the air is the biggest problem...The second is landing it.......That problem I think I have resolved...

     I placed these simple leading edges to the wing where you see there are flat spots when you look at your wing in the kit., I found that this keeps the air clinging to the largest part of the wing where the flaps are still usable at slow landing speeds...

     Without these, my other 3 models always dropped and hit the runway 3 feet high on the approach...Kept busting up the undercarrage, broke wheels and the landings just looked bad...In the original kit, they had decals that looked like radiator intakes like on the real mosquito...Only problem was they cause the model to stop flying because the leading edge was chpped off causing that air to ride over the flap engaged and the model just stopped flying at the worst possible moment...when you are touching down..... Added a photo of the last landing I had with a 15 mph downwind during our Warbird event...I never would have even attempted this in the old days, but a fellow flyer had an emergency and I had to get down right away.....hence, the downwind landing.....I greased her right in stable as it has ever been...
 
Go back and read more....



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RE: DeHavilland Mosquito - 12/11/2012 2:10 PM   
badazzgti03


 

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Status: online 		Thanks for the info dave!
I was wondering about those flat spots on the leading edge of the wing. What about turning those into vents like Spitty did?

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RE: DeHavilland Mosquito - 12/11/2012 3:40 PM   
david polley


 

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    That's fine, just as long as you do not degrade the leading edge so it is not effective when trying to land and such....I attempted to make mine look like vents with the black trim Monokote on the red Valkote..I like that color red because it went with the trim on the tale, wing, and the elevator and such.....Again all without taking away the leading edges ability to keep airflow tight to the wing.....


      I mean I don't  know how it would effect the leading edge if you put "real" vents there...I would think air rushing into the leading edge with vent holes could cause a problem only in that the way CMP tapered the flat spots to begin with, made the wing a whole lot less effective in my opinion.....Of course the real mosquito had very nicely tapered leading edges over the vents which did not effect the wing....


Let me know what you come up with...

David

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RE: DeHavilland Mosquito - 12/12/2012 3:47 PM   
badazzgti03


 

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Status: online 		Surething David, should be a nice little project

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RE: DeHavilland Mosquito - 12/12/2012 5:43 PM   
Jetjockey_3


 

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Status: offline 		In response to Adrian222's post with the Youtube videos of the Full-size Mosquito, here is a link to the on-board video of the same plane. It is a well spent 16:21 for any warbird buff. As a 108", scratch-built Mosquito builder (test flight next spring) and former Canadian Air Cadet with the 180 Mosquito Squadron, this is an amazing video ... enjoy!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rGfQQWOsoB8



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RE: DeHavilland Mosquito - 12/17/2012 9:22 PM   
badazzgti03


 

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Status: online 		Thinking about going with an electric set up for the mossy..what does everyone thing of adding twin eflite power 60's or Turnigy G60's 400kv to this thing???

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RE: DeHavilland Mosquito - 12/17/2012 9:38 PM   
david polley


 

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Status: offline 		Dear Badazz,

    Electric is out of my league on this I am afraid..Sorry about That...

     There are many foks here that have gone electic in this forum...You will have to try and contact one of them I suppose...I will miss that fact that we could have talked about real model engines on this one, but I do understand why you would want to look at this from an electric standpoint...I can tell you for sure...Nothing sweeter than hearing those engines running in tune........

    Video added from our show a couple years back, where I had to get them tuned up before it was my turn to fly in our invasion over Normady....I am near the middle of this video, but you can really hear what I am talking about....Good luck with the batteries and outrunners... I fly at the Greater Cioncinnati Radio Control Club or GCRCC......This was from our 50th anniversay show back in August of 2010 as we were preparing several models for the show that morning...The video is below....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KPuDOZsQOQY






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RE: DeHavilland Mosquito - 12/18/2012 2:40 PM   
badazzgti03


 

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From: Montgomery Village, MD, USA
Status: online 		David,
It's cool man I know the sound of twin nitros does sound good! nice video by the way. My mossy came with twin GMS .32s don't think that is enough power for this thing. Pluse would like to do the counter rotation on one of the motors...just trying to figure out what I need to do with the prop once when I do this...do I need a pusher prop or what?

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RE: DeHavilland Mosquito - 12/18/2012 3:14 PM   
david polley


 

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Status: offline 		Baddazz,

     Do not know about the props and such but just keep looking......I do not know much about Electric Technology at this point...I do know you will have to do a lot of carving out around the firewall and the nacells to allow for proper cooling and such...As you have notice the instructions have no information at all about electric motors and ESC's.

Good luck with that my friend....

David

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RE: DeHavilland Mosquito - 12/18/2012 5:11 PM   
scaleforlife


 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: david polley

Baddazz,

     Do not know about the props and such but just keep looking......I do not know much about Electric Technology at this point...I do know you will have to do a lot of carving out around the firewall and the nacells to allow for proper cooling and such...As you have notice the instructions have no information at all about electric motors and ESC's.

Good luck with that my friend....

David


I used Dualsky XM4260CA-5, 680kv motors turning APC 12x8 props. The starboard motor had a pusher prop which made a vast improvement on the take offs . I cut out the flat portion of the leading edge and made grills to cover the openings. This is where the ESC's were installed. This had no effect on the airplane what so ever. I also drilled vent holes in the center of the bottom of the wing. This provided more than enough cooling.

Good luck

Ken

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RE: DeHavilland Mosquito - 12/18/2012 6:29 PM   
badazzgti03


 

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Status: online 		Thanks Ken...Ill be waiting on that wing man
I figure electric would be easier to fly and wouldn't have to worry about a motor failing.

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RE: DeHavilland Mosquito - 12/18/2012 6:36 PM   
scaleforlife


 

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Status: offline 		I'm standing in line now to ship it

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RE: DeHavilland Mosquito - 12/18/2012 7:21 PM   
badazzgti03


 

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RE: DeHavilland Mosquito - 12/18/2012 7:42 PM   
david polley


 

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Status: offline 		Scaleforlife and Badazz,


Yes Gentelemen,

     It will really help on the take off run no doubt, and you will more than likely not have to worry about an engine failure....Yes that is true, but I have to tell you...

    The Adrenalin Rush is beyond anything I have very experianced flying RC...This is the most difficult model I have ever flown and the most challenging,
     I have to tell you personally that when you overcome the design flaws, completely re-engineer the gear blocks, carefully hand tune both of the engines you have completely repaired and rebuilt,  modified the carburetors, modified the gas tanks, modified the landing gear, hand made all of the flying controls connected to the servos by hand, then finally figure out how to take the model off of the gound with no gyro, both engines pulling the model very hard to the left on a paved runway, and low and behold you actually get it in the air and those engines kick in and run up in almost perfect sync, brace yourself......, you might actually pee in you shorts if you get this far.......Now the real fun starts...

     The model flies like a bat bat out of hell with 5000 people watching you as you dive and make 110 mph low speed passes as the crowd watches with great intent and wonder and you finally complete your flight, grease the model in perfectly on 2 wheels, and it slows down enough so you can taxi back with extreme trimph and joy beyond measure, because you FINALLY OVERCAME IT ALL....after spending almost 4 years trying to figure it all out........!!!!!! 

     This my friends is a feeling I will never forget as an RC modeler.....

     Yes the engines make it very risky...but there is no sound like it......It will always draw attention from everyone at the flying field  whether you are in the pit or your a spectator.... 
    I am sure you have seen multiple crashes of CMP mosqutio model on YouTube....Yes it makes you heart sick watching all of the carnage. but to me that is what makes this model so exciting to fly...Overcoming all of those obstacles and beating what seems like all of the odds aginst you and you still come out on top...Yes, I have had 4 models total to date and have learned so much about it now...And the best part of all....?
     It has made me a better pilot and certainly more respected at the flying field...Most folks would not tackle this one I can tell you....but that is ok...That is what makes this hobby so much fun....Every model built is as different as each personality behind the project....I applaud any and all who take on this bird, with the highest reguard and respect.....

    Happy Flying

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RE: DeHavilland Mosquito - 12/19/2012 10:54 AM   
stuntflyr



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quote:

ORIGINAL: spitty

Andy, here are some pics , scale is in cm.

You don´t have to bother about the retract rails, You can change them like You want.

The Forum is so helpful, especially for a kit like this.

So do as suggested by a lot of pilots here : reinforce everything in the mainsection.

( perfect therefore is PU-Glue)

Regards

Andy


( I love the PR Versions with the nice PR-BLUE)



Hi Andy,
Long time lurker here. I may have a line on a CMP Mosquito and want to go electric. How large diameter props can be accomodated? I noticed that Master Airscrew makes a wide selection of 3 bladed props with pusher twins to their tractor offerings. Could be a great start to a decent looking and handling model. 
I also love your Scale attempts on this obviously flawed ARF, I wonder which spinner size you chose from the Traplet outfit? The 71 inch version or the 81 inch version?
Also, did you choose a canopy from one of those kits, the PR version with the vee windshield is my choice, and a good looking forward bombadier's nose would be nice too, do any of those fit this model?
I've been hopelessly in love with the Mosquito since childhood, old pictures in magazines about one surviving near our home in California only to be ruined in the weather, another in Mexico City enduring the same fate and the movies 633 Squadron and Mosquito Squadron make it an emotional thing that must be eventually sated through modeling (I unfortunatelly have not the proper finances for a real one!).
Thanks for any info you can provide.
Chris...



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RE: DeHavilland Mosquito - 12/22/2012 4:58 AM   
cathurga


 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: badazzgti03

Thinking about going with an electric set up for the mossy..what does everyone thing of adding twin eflite power 60's or Turnigy G60's 400kv to this thing???

Badazz,

I am building this in electric version, and I can tell you that I am having problems finding a decent combination for this plane. Although some have done it successfully, I am limiting myself with a number of factors. Others that dont have these limitations, seem to have been ok. My limitations are as follows
1) I want to use 6S 5000mah packs as I have them for other planes, and would prefer not to buy additional packs, and I also want a single pack setup to avoid charging 2 all the time.
2) I would prefer a more 'scale' setup of 3-bladers rather than 2
3) I would prefer to have a larger prop, the maximum you can use on it is a 13".

I have a number of motors that I have been trying, with prop combos that I have available, and I have also been using ecalc to try and get a good combo. My findings thusfar are that my wants and desires laid out above, do not make for a suitable setup....so I am going to be making some compromises.

I have been posting some of my findings on rcgroups, as there is a leccy conversion thread there....here are some of the ACTUAL results I got with tests I did on a wattmeter.

Cells Motor Propellor Full Throttle Half Throttle
6S 5000 Mah Turnigy L5055-C 700Kv 13x8x3 MAS 2000W 100A 1200W 50A
6S 5000 Mah Turnigy L5055-C 700Kv 12x7 MAS E-Prop 1200W 80A 580W 23A
6S 5000 Mah Turnigy L5055-C 700Kv 12x8x3 MAS 1500W 80A 600W 28A
4S 5000 Mah Turnigy L5055-C 700Kv 13x8x3 MAS 800W 55A 300W 21A
6S 5000 Mah eFlite Power 60 13x8x3 MAS 800W 36A 500W 12A

As you can see, the P60 test yielded some decent results, but what doesnt show on there is that the pitch speed is low, and I think that the plane would have sufficient power, but it would be too slow for a plane of this wingloading. The next step for me was to buy a set of the same Turnigy motors as above, but in 400KV version. I am also going to chop some MAS 16x10x3 blades down to 13" and that seems to be the best combo I can find with a 400KV motor. ecalc has determined that anything over 400Kv is going to draw a lot of amps on a motor sized 5055.
I am also going to test the above 700Kv with 11x7 2-bladers......although it is not my optimum choice, it would give good power and pitch speed with low amps, but then it is not scale.
In all attempts, I would like to have a pusher/tractor combo in order to negate the torque effects, experience of other pilots shows that the rudder is pretty ineffective at take off, and I really dont want to be struggling getting it to take off nicely.

I agree with Dave that the flat surfaces on the leading edge are not optimum....others say that it is not going to affect flight, but logic dictates that those 'walls' are not good for decent airflow over the wing. My ESC's are 100A units (overkill for sure, but I want them to remain cool) and I wont be mounting them in the wing roots, but I still think that openings in the root will help airflow.

Keep posting guys, this info is very useful!

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RE: DeHavilland Mosquito - 12/22/2012 11:20 AM   
spitty


 

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Status: offline 		Hi Mosquito Fans,

here´s a picture of the for me now perfect ARF-Kit


Andy

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RE: DeHavilland Mosquito - 12/22/2012 11:31 AM   
spitty


 

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Status: offline 		Chris,

thanks for the nice words and yes, I´m also in love with the Mosquito since childhood...

The Props I use are Graupner 12,5 / 7 , and there is no no more space between Prop and Fuselage...

The Spinners are the Brian Taylor 81 inch version, ordered via Traplet, please see earlier posts...

( You have to extend the cowlings )

The Canopy is the original one from the Kit ( and I´m so happy: I have now a second Kit in Reserve, found

it in a spanish shop for 220,- € with shipping, means around 290 $

As David wrote: It´s so a beautiful airplane, and I bought 2 Retracts, 2 Engines, so if she will be damaged

in battle, I can rebuild her....

And Magnus, Hansenweb gives unfourtunately an 401 error... ( I have heard WEBRAS are still available in the UK )

So, I wish You and your families a very nice Christmastime and many successful Mosquito Sorties in 2013

Andy

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RE: DeHavilland Mosquito - 12/22/2012 7:49 PM   
fast_mag


 

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Status: offline 		Hello,

I have tried  and the link

http://hansenm.web.cern.ch/hansenm/planes/JamaraMosquito/JamaraMosquitoBuildImageDirectory.htm

does not give any error for me... Please try again!

As a comment, I used spinners for the 71 inch from Traplet... indeed they are about 6mm too small.

Have a great Christmas! And Andy, your ARF kit really looks fantactic!

Best,
      /Magnus


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RE: DeHavilland Mosquito - 12/26/2012 5:24 PM   
badazzgti03


 

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Status: online 		Hi everyone and happy holidays!!!
what size spinners is everyone using???

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       Post #: 1447

RE: DeHavilland Mosquito - 12/26/2012 6:35 PM   
david polley


 

Posts: 301
Score: 100
Joined: 2/7/2008
Last Login: 5/13/2013
From: Cincinnati, OH, USA
Status: offline 		Merry Christmas Badazzgti03

    I used Dave Brown P51 style 3 1/2 " spinners on my Mosquito....I have attached the photo This is a parabolic spinner for a 2 bladed propeller...The part number is is P-235-7235...It is the closest spinner I could come up with that looked really nice on this model, especially in the air...  I have also attached photos with 2 bladed, and the 3 bladed spinners (for static displays...I always fly with wood 2 bladed props for safety...)

The list price for the spinner alone is still 39.95.....Now if you want a 3 bladed prop, Dave will cut that for you for an additional $5.00....and the best part about that is that this is a set up fee to cut the spinner for the 3 blades...If you order 2 spinners, the first 3 bladed spinner will cost you  $44.95, but the second 3 bladed prop will only cost you $39.95 because he already has the equipment set up and he will not charge you the additional $5.00 fee on the 2nd spinner.....

Dave Brown Products

So two 2 bladed spinners will cost you $79.90.     Two 3 bladed spinners will cost you $84.90  

     I think if you check with Tru-Turn, there spinners will run you $59.95 each and then you will have to pay an additional $9.95 for EACH spinner to have them cut 3 bladed...

Tru-Turn Spinners

 Two 2 bladed spinners will cost you $119.90. Two 3 bladed spinners will cost you $139.80

     You will have to purchase the adapter nut and washer which will run you an addtitional $6.00 to $9.00 depending on the engine you use....In your case I believe you are going electric and I know these will work just fine in that department....
    How you adapt these to you electric motors I am not sure on that.....

    However you can see a very big difference between the prices and I can tell you personally that Dave Brown Spinners are very nice, very well made, and balanced with precision....They are made right here in Hamilton Ohio, and I have known the man personally.... (former AMA Vice President, former AMA President, and National and International Aerobatics champion...) for 35 years.....

Very nice guy and there is a 75% chance he will be the one personally cutting them for you......

Give them a call....


David




Attachments
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(in reply to badazzgti03)
       Post #: 1448

RE: DeHavilland Mosquito - 12/26/2012 6:46 PM   
Dangaras



Posts: 262
Score: 255
Joined: 6/1/2009
Last Login: 5/6/2013
From: Toronto, ON, CANADA
Status: offline 		I recently got a pair of spinners from Raymond at rc-castle.com. They are for some other mozzie but they fit my Black Horse mozzie perfectly. The notches are in place for three blades all you have to do is open them up as necessary.


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(in reply to david polley)
       Post #: 1449

RE: DeHavilland Mosquito - 12/26/2012 7:38 PM   
badazzgti03


 

Posts: 273
Score: 100
Joined: 11/16/2007
Last Login: 5/21/2013
From: Montgomery Village, MD, USA
Status: online 		Awesome!
Thanks for the info guys!!!

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(in reply to Dangaras)
       Post #: 1450

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