ziroli f-9f with wren mw54?  
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ziroli f-9f with wren mw54? - 7/20/2002 12:26:05 PM   
HORNET1788


 

Posts: 70
Joined: 2/14/2002
Status: offline 		Just wondering if anybody thinks the mw54 will be enough power to push the ZIROLI f-9 (built light) through SCALE flight maneuvers? I do not wanna fly 200. Thanks.
       Post #: 1

F9F - 7/20/2002 6:45:56 PM   
JET FX



Posts: 1527
Joined: 1/20/2002
From: Sydney, , AUSTRALIA
Status: offline 		Hornet 1788, As long as the AUW of your Panther stays reasonable eg max of 20 lb or so you will find the Ziroli Panther will perform fine on a MW54 turbine of about 11lb thrust. The Panther has a lot of wing area and will fly fine off a sealed strip... this jet model flys on the wing very well, and does not require excessive thrust.
Although grass field operations maybe more suited to a 18 lb - 24 lb class turbine...

_____________________________

JET FX Australia~ Cosmic Pilots, Jets Munt, Yellow Aircraft, Sis-T, Fei Bao, Fly Eagle Jet, Wren- www.jetfx.net

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Panther power - 7/21/2002 4:13:44 AM   
Vincent



Posts: 2591
Joined: 12/7/2001
From: Phoenix, AZ, USA
Status: offline 		I have to assume you have a Wren at this time?? If not then there is no question you should be buying a P-80 or any 17lb thrust size motor for that jet. The wren will fly the Panther when all things are perfect but on some very hot day or when you blow an approach and need some steam to get out of trouble you ain`t gonna have it, then the famous "snap" and crash follows.

My 2cents only here,
Vin...

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       Post #: 3

Ziroli Panther - 7/21/2002 5:39:12 AM   
Harley Condra


 

Posts: 1044
Joined: 12/7/2001
From: Kalispell, MT, USA
Status: offline 		A friend of mine (Larry Noble) is flying a Ziroli Panther powered by a RAM 750F. In order to fly it at a scale-like, comfortable speed, he pulls the throttle back to about about 30%. It likes full throttle for take-off, but needs to be throttled back for the remainder of the flight. Full throttle isn't even necessary for the vertical stuff, and the airplane is quite happy with that power. It didn't want to get more than a few feet off the ground with the ducted fan, but with the turbine conversion, it is a totally different airplane.

With a Wren, it might be underpowered if heavy, and of course the take-off roll would be longer than with a larger engine.

The airplane has an acre of wing, and is great in the pattern....slows down quite nicely.

This is Larry's first turbine airplane, and he is doing very well with it. It flies like Phil Kraft's Ugly Stick!!!!!

It's up to you, but I would go with the larger engine for that airplane......................there is no replacement for the thrust you didn't install...........


Good luck


Harley Condra
BVM REP
RAM REP

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THANKS - 7/21/2002 6:17:41 AM   
HORNET1788


 

Posts: 70
Joined: 2/14/2002
Status: offline 		Thanks for the reply, i might look at the homebuilt simjet w/17lbs. i just dont have the flow to put into a jetcat right now. i would love to though.

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       Post #: 5

JDE 54 - 7/22/2002 9:00:36 PM   
DennisF


 

Posts: 161
Joined: 2/6/2002
From: pacifica, CA, USA
Status: offline 		Hi
The Ziroli panther has already been flown with a JDE 54 for power by Forestt Wagner.


BRG's
Dennis
JDE

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       Post #: 6

PANTHER - 7/22/2002 9:22:42 PM   
HORNET1788


 

Posts: 70
Joined: 2/14/2002
Status: offline 		And it was and is flown successfully? just wondering. thanks

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Ziroli F9F - 7/22/2002 9:35:45 PM   
Vampire



Posts: 683
Joined: 12/7/2001
From: Bath, PA, USA
Status: offline 		I have only the highest regard for Nick and his designs and the statments reflecting that the Panther flies on the "wing" is well founded.

Having seen the Panther fly many times on a .91 D/F set-up which yeilds 11+ lbs thrust at best, I feel that the 54 will work ok as long as the final ramp weight (WET) comes in at <20#.

However, as it has also been mentioned, you may come to regret not having more thrust on those 85 90 degree days. Turbines like piston engines, will produce less thrust in hot, humid weather and if flying off grass strips, performance loss will be very noticable and pronounced.

Best regards:

Kerry J. Sterner
SIMJET of PA.
[email]scaledesigner@enter.net[/email]

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       Post #: 8

Panther weight - 7/22/2002 10:23:20 PM   
JET FX



Posts: 1527
Joined: 1/20/2002
From: Sydney, , AUSTRALIA
Status: offline 		Kerry, you said it! I have seen these models fly fine on the OS91 Ramtec set-up, and they will fly well off of short grass fields if you have a lighter model. Also I have seen them fly well with JPX 240P, and Sophia 450 power with ease...

If I was to decide to install a 11lb thrust class turbine eg PST 600 or RAM 500 for instance, it would be only realistic to expect good performance if the Panthers AUW was say under 20 lb. between 15-18 lb is ideal, this lower weight is quite possible to achieve while building if you are planning on a smaller turbine to be installed....Also this is easier with a glass fuz instead of built up fuz. I am fortunate as I just happen to own a set of moulds for this fuz. And my glass Panther airframe assembled with wings/tail and retracts, less paint the engine and radio gear weighs only 8.5 lb.

Here's a comparison of sorts! (similar airframe designs) Tam has been experimenting with the new D.L. ARF Aermacchi and he is flying his model at approx 21 lb AUW! with a RAM 500 for power. Tam has added a smoke system as well and numerous mods to improve structural strength for turbine use.
Keep in mind this is a much smaller model with much less wing area than the Ziroli Panther.
Tam reports the Aermacchi performs very well indeed despite the higher wing loading also apparent vertical performance is very impressive as well, all from an 11 lb thrust turbine....

That said with hotter conditions and adverse wind etc. it is nice though to have plenty of grunt on hand if need be....Although maybe I would not fly my pride and joy in extreme conditions anyway : )

In a nut shell the Panther 'WILL' fly well on the smaller turbines ala scale, 11- 12 lb thrust, and they fly very well on the wing! about as cub like as a jet could be... after all Nick designed this bird to fly on D/F power of only 9 lb thrust approx.

_____________________________

JET FX Australia~ Cosmic Pilots, Jets Munt, Yellow Aircraft, Sis-T, Fei Bao, Fly Eagle Jet, Wren- www.jetfx.net

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ziroli f-9f with wren mw54? - 8/10/2002 11:24:45 PM   
B777



Posts: 532
Joined: 7/25/2002
From: Bangkok, THAILAND
Status: offline 		Hi guys,

This is my Panther, a kit from Europe (Denmark or Norway .. not sure) and about the size of Ziroli Panther. Fiberglass fuse and foam/balsa wing, flying weight 11kg. I fly this jet with PST J600 5.5kg thrust (12lbs) for a very scale flight capable of large loops, split S, and almost two vertical rolls. I have also flown the same jet with SimJet 2300 with just a bit better performance but about 1.5kg more flying weight with less flight time.

Turbine mania!
B777

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MW 54 in the Z. Panther - 8/11/2002 12:56:34 AM   
jks


 

Posts: 67
Joined: 12/30/2001
From: Omaha, NE,
Status: offline 		I saw Foresst's fly at Missouri Valley. It flew nice with this combination and can take off in less than 300'. It was one of my favorites to see fly....I like scale stuff.
If you're into speed I'm sure this isn't the plane or engine, but it looks niiiiiiiiice.
Jim

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replies - 8/11/2002 1:00:50 AM   
HORNET1788


 

Posts: 70
Joined: 2/14/2002
Status: offline 		Now you all have me thinking. I was looking into getting a used ram750 or p-80 but damn they are so $$$$$$$. I could definetly see spending the money on the wren 54 new at 1400 auto start. Anyhow, i live in PHOENIX, were the temp everyday approaches 115 in the summer, what do you think now? I WILL build it light. This is going to be my first built up jet, and am curious as to where the places are that you can lighten, and where they ar not. For instance, the ribs in the wings, WOW they are big, with alot of 1/8" wood, can i lighten hole these abit. Well hopefully i can get some help. Thanks, Nick

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jde54 - 8/11/2002 6:21:28 AM   
Ram-bro


 

Posts: 2003
Joined: 1/22/2002
From: Bennington, NE, USA
Status: online 		Coontact Foresette Wagner oon the Jet list. He is flying the Zirolli Panther with the JDE54. I Saw it fly this last weekend at the MVJS. Flys scale and seems to handle low speed pretty well.

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gman - 8/11/2002 7:19:43 AM   
HORNET1788


 

Posts: 70
Joined: 2/14/2002
Status: offline 		Gman, is that yours? I love the aluminum finish. Is it flite-metal? Nick

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