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RE: Tuff Flight's 4D - 6/6/2005 10:30 PM   
Ultimate99



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quote:

BTW since I didn't build this plane I need some advice on replacing the servos. Have any of you had to replace them? and how difficult was it. I think that my rudder/elevator servos are severely underpowered for 3D.

Strupp22, because the tail feathers are full flying counter balanced surfaces it takes little effort to move them. First check your nyrods and connecting rods to see if you can free them up. Standard 45 in/oz servos should be fine. For kicks I used
some expensive digital servos in the 4D I am flying now and I can't tell the difference between that and my original 4D with expert servos.
Also a time saving hint: If a servo goes bad we simply cut all the way around the bad servo wire and all, almost through to the top covering. Then pry it out with a large screwdriver, it will pop right out. Then cut the wire off the new servo and strip, place shrink tube on, and solder the new servo wires onto the old wire (still in the plane). Then poly glue in-place. This way you don't have to cut open or replace any extra covering.

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RE: Tuff Flight's 4D - 6/7/2005 4:19 AM   
GarySS


 

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Status: online 		Greetings,
Since we are on the subject of servos I have a question for all listening. I have been flying my 4D several times and having a blast with it. I really like its stability even with the tail heavy CG. It does have that shaking or porpoising that makes me worry about my elevator servo (Hitec 635) Has anyone lost an elevator servo from the flutter/porpoise effect? I have gotten used to it (sometimes occurs going upwind or in a fast pull up) so I can live with it otherwise.

BTW, did my first waterfall with the Saito.82. My gosh is that engine powerful!

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RE: Tuff Flight's 4D - 6/9/2005 3:32 AM   
Bad Tooth



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Status: offline 		Well, I tried the 4D with a 6V battery to see how much difference that made. It seemed to make a noticeable difference on the servo performance. And after cutting and prying at the 4.8V pack to get it out of the wing, I decided that it may not be worth it to replace the servos after all!! That glue really holds 'em in there!! I'm already getting more deflection on the elevator and rudder, so we'll see how it flies.

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RE: Tuff Flight's 4D - 6/16/2005 6:58 PM   
Bad Tooth



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Status: offline 		Ok guys, I went flying the other day and while 'taking off' my tail feathers started to flutter... they came apart and she went in the dirt. I didn't think that I was going that fast? I did not have the surfaces counterbalanced either. Just to let you know - it doesn't work to just cut off the broken part of the elevator halves and re-attach a smaller elevator. It will fly but has absolutely no authority! pretty fun to try though!

Anyway, so I went out and found a real estate sign and made some new elevators. I am going to balance them this time. My question is how important is it that the elevator moves freely? When I disconnect the push-rods they don't move, they are still pretty tight because they are new. So how do I get a balance point if I don't have a free pivot?

Or is it not that critical, just as long as I have some weight up front?

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RE: Tuff Flight's 4D - 6/17/2005 1:30 AM   
tailskid



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Status: offline 		On my last flight the same thing happened on take-off, so I know I wasn't going too fast. Thanks for the info - I guess some real estate company is going to be missing a sign in the very near future

Jerry

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RE: Tuff Flight's 4D - 6/17/2005 2:24 AM   
poof


 

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Status: offline 		I have the counter balance weights and if I go full throttle on a breezy day it still flutters.

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RE: Tuff Flight's 4D - 6/21/2005 8:37 PM   
wind junkie



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Status: offline 		Note 1: It's always a good idea to use counterbalances

Note 2: it's VERY important that the elevator moves freely! Find the source of the binding and fix it. First disconnect the clevises, and make sure the axle rod pivots freely in the brass axle sleeve. Sometimes the brass can bend (slightly) due to impact forces and cause binding. You can straighten it easily by removing the elevators and using the axle rod to gently bend the tube straight again.

If the clevises bind on the horns, do whatever is needed to stop the binding. Make sure you don't kink the control rods too much. The goal is to have a fairly straight run from the nyrod exit to the control horns.

If the elevator binds, it will be a pain to center, and it won't be fun to fly.

Note 3: It's not absolutely critical that the elevator balances "exactly" on the pivots. We find two 1/4-20 steel nuts placed where we show on the plans about 4" in front of the elevator LE on the supplied rods does the trick.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Strupp22

Ok guys, I went flying the other day and while 'taking off' my tail feathers started to flutter... they came apart and she went in the dirt. I didn't think that I was going that fast? I did not have the surfaces counterbalanced either. Just to let you know - it doesn't work to just cut off the broken part of the elevator halves and re-attach a smaller elevator. It will fly but has absolutely no authority! pretty fun to try though!

Anyway, so I went out and found a real estate sign and made some new elevators. I am going to balance them this time. My question is how important is it that the elevator moves freely? When I disconnect the push-rods they don't move, they are still pretty tight because they are new. So how do I get a balance point if I don't have a free pivot?

Or is it not that critical, just as long as I have some weight up front?



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RE: Tuff Flight's 4D - 11/7/2005 12:00 AM   
EStrathm


 

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Status: offline 		I'm new to the forum, but I'm going to revive this old thread.

I am a college student who flew almost religiously through high school, but due to work and space and other constraints, I haven't flown in about three years. Also, about three years ago, I stopped building a Goldberg Extra 300 (with an OS .91 fx) that was about 90% finished, and it had sat in my basement until a few weeks ago when I had a week off, and I finished it. So now it's sitting back home, all ready to be flown, but due to the fact that I haven't touched control sticks in three years, I wouldn't dare fly it until my thumbs are in proper flying order. So I am buying a Tufflight 4d used from a guy found here on RCU, figuring that it is portable, built to be crashed, and would be a bit of a challange that would force myself to regain my skills quickly (I was always a very fast learner). I plan on setting up the CG a little forward of what they recommend to start, and fly it more like a sport plane until I get used to it, then would start testing out 3D. I also plan on adding the counterbalances to the tailfeathers right away, after reading through this thread. Do you guys have any other suggestions for giving this plane better normal flying characteristics? My radio is a Futaba 6XA, so dual rates and (I think) expo are both possibilities. The plane is coming with a Saito .91 attached, and that is the source of my questions. Is this an absurd amount of power? I know this plane is not meant to be flown at low speeds, and imagine I would rarely go above half throttle, but is this simply too much engine? (Is there such a thing?) What prop would you guys recommend for it? Something like a 14x4 or 15x4? I'll be flying here in Northeast Ohio and back home in Southeast Pennsylvania, so I will basically be at sea level.

I think those are the extent of my questions. I'm a little annoyed that I decided to get back into the hobby so late in the season (although the seller is sending me a set of Tufflight skis), in addition to the fact that I am studying in Ireland next semester. Is there anything else that I should know or think about in setting up and flying this plane?

Many thanks,
Elliot

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RE: Tuff Flight's 4D - 11/7/2005 5:04 PM   
wind junkie



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Status: offline 		Elliot,

If you do NOT want to fly 3D, you can also reduce the control throws by using holes that are further away from the axle pivot points on the rudder and elevator. This will give you less throw, but more precision. You can also do this on the servo end (by going in towards the servo screw), but it's preferred to do it on the control surface end.

If your seller removed the outer holes of the control horns, it should be a simple matter to replace them. We use Dubro large "T" style horns which your LHS should have for a buck or two. Verify that new horns do indeed have the outer holes I suggested beyond your current installation, then unscrew the old ones and bold in the new ones. A half hour job at most, and you should appreciate the added pricision.

There is no such thig as too much power-- only too much weight. If you're under 5 lbs total weight, your plane should still fly great. I've never owned an OS 91, but I believe a good prop for it would fall in the 15x5 range. I think 14x4 would be too little load because that's what a Saito 82 uses. Perhaps a 14x5.

Joe

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RE: Tuff Flight's 4D - 11/8/2005 8:17 PM   
GarySS


 

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Status: online 		Hi Elliot, Check your private messages.

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RE: Tuff Flight's 4D - 3/19/2006 9:16 AM   
slowbird


 

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Status: offline 		My girlfreind just got me one for my b-day and im starting tomorrow. Im excited i have a towerhobbies 46 ill stick on there. How long did it take you guys to build this kit? Thanks guys

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RE: Tuff Flight's 4D - 3/19/2006 4:24 PM   
Bad Tooth



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Status: offline 		I didn't have to build mine, I bought it from someone on ebay . But you will have a ton of fun with this plane! I love mine, and can't wait for the weather to change so I can get it back in the air.

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RE: Tuff Flight's 4D - 3/27/2006 6:43 PM   
slowbird


 

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Status: offline 		THis si crap, Now the bat is split up one side. i want to wreck this thing so bad and i cant even get it built

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RE: Tuff Flight's 4D - 8/28/2007 7:54 PM   
roboto65



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Status: offline 		Well to revive the thread again HEHEHEH I have a Tufflight on the way after crashing a 28% Cap hehehehe need something to beat up and spending 2000 dollars every weekend is out of the question so I ordered a 4D hope to see it soon and be flying even sooner want to practice with out fear and this fits the bill !!!!

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RE: Tuff Flight's 4D - 8/29/2007 5:26 AM   
CopperheadAV



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Status: offline 		You will love the 4D, I have had mine for a few years. It's not to pretty any more, but still givin flight time!!

Have fun!!!

Cheers,

Tim

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RE: Tuff Flight's 4D - 8/29/2007 7:26 AM   
We3R/C


 

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Status: offline 		Hi guys, thinking about a 4D tufflight for a winter beater and learning plane. I have a couple engines laying around,Thunder Tiger Pro .46,Magnum .70 4-stroke, which wopuld work better on this airframe? Thanks, Mike

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RE: Tuff Flight's 4D - 8/29/2007 4:50 PM   
roboto65



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Status: offline 		Well I will be putting a O.S 70 surpass in mine looking for a Saito though love my Saitos but had the 70 laying around doing nothing !!!!! Lets hope it survives my crashing LOL

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RE: Tuff Flight's 4D - 8/30/2007 10:12 PM   
Ultimate99



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Status: offline 		I, as most people started out with a low cost 2 stroke on the 4D because you know it's going to get punished, and although the 4D can take a lot I was afraid to put an expensive 4 stroke on it. But now as a prod owner of a couple of Saito engines I can honestly say that after about 50 crashes I have not hurt anything on the engine. So if the OS engines are anything like the Saito's then go for it. I would never fly 3D with anything other than a 4 stroke again.

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RE: Tuff Flight's 4D - 8/30/2007 10:35 PM   
roboto65



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Status: offline 		Cannot wait till it gets here!!!!
Have everything ready hehehehe will post pics when I get her in and done !!!!!!

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RE: Tuff Flight's 4D - 9/8/2007 11:11 PM   
We3R/C


 

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Status: offline 		Well guy's I ordered 4D, anybody building/Flying one with ThunderTiger46Pro? I wonder if I should use Mini servo's to save weight? Also Is Covering the EPP wing a Pain? I will Post when I get started building.

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RE: Tuff Flight's 4D - 9/9/2007 6:19 PM   
Ultimate99



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quote:

ORIGINAL: We3R/C

Well guy's I ordered 4D, anybody building/Flying one with ThunderTiger46Pro? I wonder if I should use Mini servo's to save weight? Also Is Covering the EPP wing a Pain? I will Post when I get started building.


That motor should be fine.
Lighter servos is always better (if money isn't an issue)
Covering EPP using the 4D instructions is a snap. Just spray plenty of 3M77 on the foam, let it dry about 20 minutes then just iron the ultracote like a balsa wing. You will never have to cover a replacment wing again.


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RE: Tuff Flight's 4D - 9/9/2007 6:55 PM   
wessco


 

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Status: offline 		I know this is the wrong place for this, but I believe someone here will like it!

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RE: Tuff Flight's 4D - 9/9/2007 8:07 PM   
Ultimate99



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Status: offline 		SWEEET!
East Central West Wild Card
Team W L PCT GB
NY Yankees 80 62 .563 -
Detroit 77 65 .542 3.0
Seattle 74 66 .529 5.0
Toronto 72 69 .511 7.5
Minnesota 69 73 .486 11.0
Oakland 69 74 .483 11.5


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RE: Tuff Flight's 4D - 9/9/2007 8:33 PM   
wessco


 

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Status: offline 		I've got my fingers crossed...ya'll coming down to NashBro this year?

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RE: Tuff Flight's 4D - 9/10/2007 5:45 AM   
We3R/C


 

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Status: offline 		WESSCO, Crash that Plane and burn the remains Immediately! LOL We we se ya in the playoffs (maybe,Go Bosox) GO TRIBE!!!!!!!

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