Seeker Wing Mold

Seeker Wing Mold
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Seeker Wing Mold - 7/31/2004 4:48:40 AM

daven

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From: Andover, MN, USA
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Today is a good day.

I did not expect this to be ready for another week or so, but my wing mold was finished today and I picked it up. It is not CNC cut from alluminum, but handcrafted out of good old epoxy and glass from a true master.

I'm still waiting on a few supplies, but should be able to lay up my first wing in the next week or two...

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RE: Seeker Wing Mold - 7/31/2004 4:53:41 AM

daven

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Still working on collecting all the supplies I'll need (boy does it add up quickly). Heres the first stack of goodies, from 5 different sources. Still waiting on two more boxes....

I will be going with Rohacell for the first 6 wings, and then I'll give Balsa a try to see if the Rohacell is worth the Expense (Roughly $55 per wing).

I'd love to hear any "painting in the mold" tips.

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RE: Seeker Wing Mold - 8/1/2004 4:27:28 AM

Mluvara

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Let the experimentation begin....

For the first few wings, I'd concentrate on the layup and just put a solid color down on the wing (white, etc). Start waxing and get a few good coats on and buffed in. Get all the little crevises and corners as they will hang you up. You'd be surprised how small an area can stick and cause you trouble. If you are using PVA over wax, painting usually goes really well. Water based paints obviously will wreak havoc with the pva. On the flip side, if you are using wax only, then you can paint multiple layers easier. Spraying directly over wax usually means you have to mist a really light coat first and then come back with a good fill coat. OTherwise, it will tend to orangepeel.

On the molded wing topic, I've been toying with the idea of using spider foam as a bed for bagging hollow testbed wings. Rather than go through all the work to see if a new wing design will work and create a plug and mold, one could cnc cut the beds (weird to cut and not use the cores) and then bag a wing in there.

BTW, spider foam is not a bad core material. It has a grain structure to it that one can easily orient in the right direction. I've used it on some projects and had good luck, however it will still dent easier than rohacell. On the other hand, it would probably make great spar material.

Michael

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RE: Seeker Wing Mold - 8/1/2004 5:50:45 AM

PylonWorld

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Michael is right about the experimentation beginning.

I recommend that you not paint your first attempts in the mold. Or you can do what I do. I spray in clear as a pinhole sealer. It allows me to see any lay-up flaws, but takes care of the pinhole problem should the part be usable. It is tempting to think that the vacuum will take care of bubbles and voids between layers. However, that is not the case. The part is only as good as the lay-up. And paint obscures flaws that you need to see when you take it out of the mold.

I highly recommend using balsa for your first attempts. Rohacell test pieces are expensive. I never count on using the first parts that I make. I create a checklist before even beginning to do a lay-up or join. I write down the steps that I plan to take. Then during the lay-up or join, I note any deviations or revisions to the checklist and update it for the next time. I usually dissect the first piece or pieces to see how well everything is put together and where I used too much glue.

Speaking of glue, one of the places to experiment is reducing glue usage in the joining phase. You can bulk up the glue with Q-spheres (microballoons) or MicroLight, but using just enough glue and controlling where it goes is key to weight control. Even with light usage of glue, you need a good way to apply it, and the best way I have found is with West System 810 Fillable Caulking Tubes. I ordered a bunch, but you can actually reuse them in most cases after letting the epoxy cure in them. I use an air powered caulking gun, but have used a standard paint store mechanical caulking gun as well. Attached is a photo of the tubes.

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RE: Seeker Wing Mold - 8/1/2004 6:35:31 AM

Bill Vargas

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Very Nice! I can t wait to see one GO

BV

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RE: Seeker Wing Mold - 8/1/2004 2:33:47 PM

daven

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I have been working on a lay up schedule, and have it all written down so I can get everything ready before I begin. For the first part I will use PVA (just to make sure), as will as at least 6 coats of wax. The last thing I want is a stuck part, so I will not skimp on thta part.

As to painting for the first one, I was thinking just a little green on the tips on top, with clear on the bottom and between the green trim. Just to fill the pin holes, but I want at least a tiny bit of color on the tips because I intend to fly the first one.

I will use the rohacell on the first wing, because I need to learn how to use it, and figure out its quirks. I plan to spend considerable time making a perfect template to use for future rohacell cuttings.

As to applying the glue, the caulking tubes look good, but I planned giving a sandwich bag with a cut corner a try.

I spent quite a bit of time talking to Chuck Bridge and Terrence P. who have both been extremely helpfull in the layup process with not only products but also techniques. You'd think they would keep some of this to themselves, but that was not the case. Both have been Extremely helpfull and supportive.

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RE: Seeker Wing Mold - 8/1/2004 5:50:09 PM

PylonWorld

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quote:

As to applying the glue, the caulking tubes look good, but I planned giving a sandwich bag with a cut corner a try.

Sandwich bags will work, but use a quality brand like Glad. The thickened glue requires a bit of pressure, and I have had bags split on the seams. It's distracting if you aren't expecting it.

If you are going to use PVA, you will not be able to mask the tips. Masking tape will pull the PVA off. But you can use an airbrushed style of trim line. Alternatively you can use a paper mask just laying in the mold when you spray the trim.

When I saw the PRO SET 125 and 229 I figured you had been talking to Chuck.

Chuck has some marvelous techniques for weight reduction. BTW, you'll be buying epoxy in gallon sets before long.

And yes, it does add up really quickly. The good thing is that while the start-up costs are high, it looks like you are buying in quantity for the long haul, and the cost per piece gets reasonable.

Who made the molds for you? They look very nice.

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RE: Seeker Wing Mold - 8/1/2004 11:48:15 PM

daven

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Chuck actually uses the 226, but I bought the 229 for a little more time. I figured I'd need it. I don't intend to mask the PVA just freehand the tips "alla" airbrush style for color.

The molds were made by Wayne Seiwert. This is his website:

http://www.aerotechmodels.com/index.htm

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RE: Seeker Wing Mold - 8/4/2004 7:25:56 PM

PylonWorld

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I know that the caulking tubes may seem like overkill, but they actually are a lot easier than sandwich bags for laying down beads of thickened epoxy. With a sandwich bag, you have to futz to get the epoxy into the bag, then you have to twist down the bag. Cutting the tip so that you get the right size beads every time is difficult.

On a wing, I use two caulking tubes with different compounds and different size nozzles. One tube has the nozzle just right for the perimeter bead and the mixture has a high content of microballoons. The other tube has lower content of microballoons with more cabosil and/or MicroFibers with a bigger nozzle for load bearing blobs and on the torque rods.

I also use 2 to 3 polyethylene glue syringes with different size tips. In the attached photo, the syringe on the left has a small nozzle and contains straight up epoxy. The other two usually contain a blend that is lightweight but good for the internal structure bonding and smaller beads than the perimeter beads.

I learned to use the syringes and tubes from dissecting wings built by others, and then talking to the people who do this for profit.

I also learned about having the different size dispensers from one of my aunts who was a master cake decorator. I never decorated any cakes, except for a little tutoring from her, but the lessons of having enough ready to use dispensers stayed with me.

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RE: Seeker Wing Mold - 8/4/2004 8:49:39 PM

js3

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Daven,

If you don't mind my asking, how much did it cost you to have your fg wing mold made? I'm not talking about materials you have purchased to make your wings--just what the mold itself cost. If you don't want to share this info, that's fine too.

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RE: Seeker Wing Mold - 8/5/2004 4:38:05 AM

daven

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John,

At this point, I still don't know the cost of the mold. I have a good friend that knows Wayne quite well. He kinda orchestrated the whole deal. I don't think Wayne would be interested in making molds for others, but this mutual friend of ours pulled it all together.

He is covering the cost of the mold, but knowing him like I do, it will cost me several built wings to pay him back. Plus he will never let me forget it

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RE: Seeker Wing Mold - 8/5/2004 9:45:01 PM

daven

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I broke down and purchased some cake decorating bags and nozzles. I'll give them a try.

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RE: Seeker Wing Mold - 8/5/2004 9:46:19 PM

splatt

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Can you spell "Happy Birthday" on mine?

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RE: Seeker Wing Mold - 8/6/2004 3:36:46 AM