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RE: FAILSAFE CHUTE - 8/4/2004 7:06 AM   
MAX EFFFORT



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Status: offline 		6.5 sounds good enough for my rookie. should keep it from exploding...thnx matt

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RE: FAILSAFE CHUTE - 8/4/2004 9:06 PM   
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Status: offline 		the under canopy chute sounds ok, but if a/c is not in forward flight ,like inverted flat spin,etc ,it might have trouble getting out. and if in forward fast flight , it might be too violent of a reaction on forward section of the a/c unless it,s really beefed up. that is why i,m thinking about the chute hatch and attach point at mid fuse on wing tube, which would be very strong spot ,and not flip a/c backwards as abruptly. but canopy may work better for certain a/c. .. thnx ,keep the ideas/tips coming

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RE: FAILSAFE CHUTE - 8/4/2004 9:41 PM   
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Status: offline 		I could rig one off the main spar in the Isobar I'm building and make it happen through the canopy, my only concern is that it will split the fiberglass from the canopy back to the main hatch when it comes out. Not necessarily an issue in a real situation, but in testing that would not be acceptable.

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RE: FAILSAFE CHUTE - 8/4/2004 10:21 PM   
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Status: offline 		Sean, I was thinking the same thing re- deployment of chute. If considering a 30lb+ AUW scale model here and the chute was deployed at high speed, which is probably more likely if its an airframe failure requiring you to deploy saftey chute it could likely destroy airframe itself upon deployment? what would you anchor the chute too also? it would need to be on/about CG so as airframe lands upright on wheels. I think it is a great idea overall but could be a major headache to incorporate into an already finished model...

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RE: FAILSAFE CHUTE - 8/4/2004 10:55 PM   
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Status: offline 		I'd attach it to the main spar. In the isobar, that's the strongest structure in the Jet. It is also about 1 inch behind the cg off the top of my head.

Above the fuel cell in the isobar is a large open space that I've used for smoke tank in the last isobar I did. It could easily be made into a hatch system, but again, when it came out there would still be some damage to the fiberglass in and around that area because of how it would be attached to the spar. Again, in a real emergency, I could care. but testing of the system would not be worth it.

That being said, if someone wants to provide me the system, I'll install it. Cause if I ever need it, at least it's there and we can get a good look at what one would look like installed??? Also, my guess is, if I had the material, I might be able to innovate something that could work in a testing situation.

If the guys at RPM are brought into the equation of future compensation of sales, I might be able to get replacement parts for testing the system for free. If that's the case, I'll throw my building time in just to go through the process, it could be fun!!

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RE: FAILSAFE CHUTE - 8/4/2004 11:30 PM   
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Status: offline 		I AGREE WITH SEAN ,AGAIN ,MID FUSE CENTER OF WING TUBE/SPAR SEEMS TO ME TO BE STRONGEST , NEAR CG,BEST SPOT TO ATTACH IT TO. KEEP IT UP, GOOD IDEAS ,THNX ALL

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RE: FAILSAFE CHUTE - 8/5/2004 12:45 AM   
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Status: offline 		Hi
Just too put my two pence worth in. Regarding the question "Is there a market" ?
I would love to go turbine if it wasnt for two factors.
You could right off thousands of pounds worth of gear in one go
and the fire risk.
I am guessing I am not alone in this postion.
If someone can come up with a workable system that gives a good chance of recovering the model in a reasonable state then it would certainly help persuade me to make the jump to turbines.

Mike

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RE: FAILSAFE CHUTE - 8/5/2004 3:06 AM   
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Status: offline 		part of the reason i started this thread is to see what kind of interest there would be in the chute system. there may be a good market for it if we can make it work and prove it with a video clip. thnx for your 2 pence mike, bloody good.

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RE: FAILSAFE CHUTE - 8/6/2004 2:58 AM   
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Status: offline 		I have had a few thoughts of this idea for many years... All back sinze I was a drone pilot in the Norwegian Artillery Defense, back in -86. I flew those drones Daytona Kid mentioned in the start of this thread.
I plan to equip my Gripen with the chute we had back then. I still have one, a bit to small, but large enough to prevent the big bang. About five feet.
I also plan to do it the way I said before, with a minor modification.

Put a small spring under the front part of the canopy, to make sure this will engage the rest. The canopy itselves could be released by a servo connected to the failsafe mode. This again would be secured by a swich, to prevent any mistakes.
Any shute connected to the front part of the model, will bring the plane nose piointing high. Some braintwisting can moove this connected piont to the main former. But it will be nessacary to engage the hatch instead of the canopy.
Someone can make this a biiig business..

I guess, if half of the jetguys here had a guaranty to save the babe for 300 US,
There would not be much moore to say...
Everyone would have it! All of us.. HUGE dollars here!!

And this points to the future.
Five years from now, you will rarely hear about jets without a full recovery system. This is just my guess.

In the meantime, i`ll do some research for my selves.

Anyone with new hints on the coloured smoke issue?
Irodin is very expensive..

Regards

Gudmund

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RE: FAILSAFE CHUTE - 8/6/2004 12:07 PM   
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Status: offline 		I thought about this, when purchasing a rare prop jet that wasnt going to be made anymore. I too got inspiration from Disc. H&L Model mania. the chute had a "memory" of its own shape. It was folded up and compressed under the canopy, a servo was the activated to lock the canopy, therefore keeping the cute compressed under. Then when (i presume failsafe activated) the servo released the canopy, and the chute "sprung" back into shape and out into the airflow, which then is dragged to the bag of the model, for a safe tumble to earth.

( i have repeated a few things said already, but this is the way i saw it done. I may have it taped somewhere....i'll see if i can get it on here????? if ya'll want??)

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RE: FAILSAFE CHUTE - 8/7/2004 1:08 AM   
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Status: offline 		i,m sure i,m not the only one who would definitely like to see a vid clip of that! . and repeat all you want, keeping this thread going could help this become reality if its possible......thnx dave!

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RE: FAILSAFE CHUTE - 8/7/2004 1:11 AM   
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Status: offline 		Yes! an excuse to trawl through hours of RC modelling tapes!

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RE: FAILSAFE CHUTE - 8/8/2004 3:23 AM   
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Status: offline 		vid clip would be great, or just some pics of the set up... thnx dave

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RE: FAILSAFE CHUTE - 8/9/2004 10:12 PM   
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Status: offline 		cant find it.
will keep looking

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RE: FAILSAFE CHUTE - 8/10/2004 5:48 AM   
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Status: offline 		come on guys , lets have some more input on this, don,t be shy, any thoughts/ideas will be appreciated. can it be done?where can i get some of that memory chute material?. i want to start experimenting....that f16 in my avatar is going to be the test bird.

< Message edited by daytona kid -- 8/9/2004 8:58:35 PM >

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RE: FAILSAFE CHUTE - 8/10/2004 6:38 AM   
air mail rcu


 

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Status: offline 		I to played with a recovery chute system about 20 years ago. At that time most planes were 40 size. A couple of hundred dollars not much of a market for a recovery system. If memory serves me a ballisticly deployed chute would cut the deployment time from 3 seconds to 1. Not a big concern at 300 feet but a real concern at 50 feet.

Also there is a style of chute that deploys in stages so as not to rip the plane apart. And a simple device not unlike a small mouse trap on the fuel line that would trip with the chute would stop fuel flow.

With the advent of 10,000 dollar rc airplanes and Forums like this I think this could really happen.

Don't the RC Reno Racers have something that they use?

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RE: FAILSAFE CHUTE - 8/10/2004 8:51 PM   
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Status: offline 		thnx air mail ,does anybody know if some of the r/c reno racers use some type of safety chute ?

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RE: FAILSAFE CHUTE - 8/12/2004 6:59 AM   
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Status: offline 		is there a chat room for r/c reno racers?

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RE: FAILSAFE CHUTE - 8/12/2004 12:29 PM   
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Status: offline 		Have not been able to find the Model Mania episode regarding the chute, but i was watching wings last night and noticed a feature on RC Aero with jets and Roy Lever, so hit record. He explains how the chute is deployed on his 4.8m span vulcan. I have videoed the video, but no sound, so once i can get the vid hosted, i will post the dialogue here.

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RE: FAILSAFE CHUTE - 8/12/2004 2:13 PM   
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Status: offline 		dialogue to match video that i will upload asap.
Quote:

Normally, if anything goes wrong with the aircraft, the onboard computer brain would automatically eject the top piece (canopy) and out would come the safety parachute and we've tested this at a speed of 100mph and the whole aircraft floats down quite nicely.


I'm assuming that the canopy is connected to the saftey chute, so that when the canopy is released, it is pulled back by the air stream and pulls the first chute with it. Then the main chute comes out after the safety and opens and works its charms.

If the first chute is not connected to the canopy then the chute must be lined with a memory metal. (Like those glases that can be bent, but spring back into shape.) so that whilst compressed under the canopy it is folded, and once the canopy is released, the chute retakes its original shape, and "springs" out into the air stream, pulling the main chute out with it. Seems like a simple enough!

Requirements:
PCM RX,
Saftey chute lined with memory metal,
Main chute (designed to the size of model its expected to save)



I wish i could find the model mania episode!!!!! it showed my explanation!!!

< Message edited by Dave03B -- 8/12/2004 11:15:11 AM >

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RE: FAILSAFE CHUTE - 8/14/2004 1:10 AM   
Hårek



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Status: offline 		Quote:
Normally, if anything goes wrong with the aircraft, the onboard computer brain would automatically eject the top piece (canopy) and out would come the safety parachute and we've tested this at a speed of 100mph and the whole aircraft floats down quite nicely.

Quote:
I'm assuming that the canopy is connected to the saftey chute, so that when the canopy is released, it is pulled back by the air stream and pulls the first chute with it. Then the main chute comes out after the safety and opens and works its charms.


Hey Hey, it still works, like in the good old days
Thats the way to go.
It can be very lightweight, and if there is some spare room in the cockpit, it would be mounted in a day or so.
I will post some pix of my solution on my Gripen later.

Regards

Gudmund

< Message edited by Gudmund Malones -- 8/13/2004 5:12:40 PM >

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RE: FAILSAFE CHUTE - 8/14/2004 5:24 AM   
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Status: offline 		very good show gudmund,can,t wait to see pics,,,,thnx big

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RE: FAILSAFE CHUTE - 8/14/2004 6:49 AM   
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Status: offline 		thinking about the possibilities of hooking up test chute on my harpoon... bungee shock loops could attach to wing tube, then metal cable[heat proof and strong] exits tail under engine, loops back forward to chute pod with release mechanism on exterior of belly hatch. ...a/c would land on nose but slowed by chute to reduce possible total loss/crash. thinking the jerk on the a/c would be straight out tail [ like a carrier bird tail arrestor hook] and cause less stresses on airframe.... maybe a release on chute to cut it away for test only...

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< Message edited by daytona kid -- 8/14/2004 11:25:50 PM >

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RE: FAILSAFE CHUTE - 8/14/2004 6:59 AM   
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Status: offline 		Watch using bungee cords. You don't want something that is going to snap back. Maybe something like some kind of friction slide. The bungee could throw the plane back into the chute.

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RE: FAILSAFE CHUTE - 8/14/2004 7:37 AM   
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Status: offline 		I think you will need to do a lot of testing to come up with something that will work for our application on the jets. I can give you an example of what can happen to one of our jets when they come to an instant stop in mid air at full throttle.

My friend had a Bandit which lost the vertical stab in a high speed pass right over the runway and directly in front of us. When the vertical stab came off the plane lost yaw control and started rolling and yawing to the right. When this happened, the plane eventually obtained an orientation with the bottom of the plane going directly into the path of travel. It was travelling like a big flat pancake at probably 180mph or more and with the plane in that orientation it just acted like a giant air brake.

The results were ugly to say the least. First the extreme air velocity on the jet broke the nose of the jet off in mid-air and the next thing I saw was something fly out of the center of the fuselage and roll across the field. This was the turbine which ejected itself out of the fuselage, also in mid-air. It landed about 200 feet away and was still enclosed in the bypass.

This all happened in mid-air before the plane ever hit the ground. Needless to say the plane was totaled but this should give you an idea what you will be facing when trying to bring a plane to a sudden stop in the sky at 180mph or so.

I think the fuselages will require major reinforcement just to have any chance of not ripping the the jet into pieces when the chute is ejected and I am not sure it can be accomplished on our models. I am guessing that most other structures that employ chutes are using metal reinforcement or extremely heavy duty composite structures to work properly. Just some other things to consider.

< Message edited by Gary Jefferson -- 8/14/2004 4:41:25 AM >

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