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Vailly Hurricane - 8/31/2004 8:10:10 PM   
Moggy


 

Posts: 116
Joined: 7/28/2004
From: Waterbury, CT, USA
Status: offline 		This could be my next project. If you would like to donate your building and flight experiences it will be appreciated. Engine selection is appreciate too.


BTW, it better fly well after spending all that coin on the Siera Retracts, Ouch!








Piece of Cake

< Message edited by Moggy -- 9/1/2004 5:31:21 PM >
       Post #: 1

RE: Vailly Hurricane - 8/31/2004 8:23:44 PM   
Ham639



Posts: 230
Joined: 2/22/2002
From: Buchanan, MI, USA
Status: offline 		Moggy,
Mine is in paint right now. G-62 for power and Seirra retracts. Projected weight with ballast . . . about 26-27 lbs. My own combination of fiberglass and Solortex with a latex finish. All the Camo is on, I just need to paint the markings and weather.
Chuck

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(in reply to Moggy)
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RE: Vailly Hurricane - 8/31/2004 10:06:17 PM   
LA7flier



Posts: 375
Joined: 10/18/2002
From: pleasanton, CA,
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Moggy

This could be my next project. If you would like to donate your building and flight experiences it will be appreciated. Engine selection is appreciate too.

I own and have flown a Vailly Hurricane...still hanging from my garage ceiling and all ready to fly. Probably never fly it again. terrible landing characteristics (and I'm not the only one who has experienced this). I've asked this list several times to hear from folks who have successfully flown this plane (not just heard second hand that it's a great flier with no vices or stood beside someone who flew the plane) Nobody yet has come forward who has experience flying this plane. My experience is as follows: great takeoff and level flight characteristics. Very little right rudder needed for straight down the runway. weight all up is about 32 pounds but has lots of detail as I built it for the Scale Masters. 3W 60 engine turning a 22 x 12 Mejlik CF prop. Landing is a different story. I have four flights on the plane and three broken wings as a result. The plane simply will not flare. If I bring it in too fast, it balloons, one click lower on the throttle and it mushes into the ground...there is no in between...now I have flown many, many scale warbirds at competition level so it's not my inability to fly the big, heavy iron and I figure nothing was as tough to land as my LA-7 but the Vailly Hurricane simply won't flare. Even the LA-7 would flare at exactly the right speed (which was very fast) I have a buddy who also flies at the Scale Masters....his Vailly Hurricane exhibited the same inability to flare...he sold it and last I heard, the guy that bought it added nose weight and still can't flare the plane....I balanced the cg at 18% back from the leading edge....this is a universally good point to balance as it is not too nose heavy nor tailheavy but just right and is where I balance all my warbirds. Now I have a theory that says if the plane is a good, solid flier, you'll see a bunch of them...especially if they are out there in numbers like most of Vailly's plans are
....when was the last time you saw a Vailly Hurricane show up at the field and fly? Again, I ask, if there is anybody out there with first hand experience flying this plane, I would love to hear from you and see what I am doing wrong...I love the Hurricane but won't risk another broken wing unless or until I can figure out how to get it to flare.....nuff said








Piece of Cake

(in reply to Moggy)
       Post #: 3

RE: Vailly Hurricane - 8/31/2004 11:42:40 PM   
Moggy


 

Posts: 116
Joined: 7/28/2004
From: Waterbury, CT, USA
Status: offline 		Did you call Roy and ask him what's going on with this beast? You're right about not seeing many. Let's see if anyone answers your challenge to come forward and put the cards on the table. I hope that Chuck doesn't get discouraged. Could it be wing loading the way it is detailed out? Maybe Roy will hop in if he gets wind of this thread.

(in reply to LA7flier)
       Post #: 4

RE: Vailly Hurricane - 9/1/2004 12:20:59 AM   
LA7flier



Posts: 375
Joined: 10/18/2002
From: pleasanton, CA,
Status: offline 		I didn't call Roy but my buddy did....unfortunately, some of these plan designers figure it's the pilots problem not theirs and that was Roy's perspective when my buddy spoke with him....he claimed the plane flew fine. I rarely bother speaking with plan designers anymore as I have built and flown enough of these planes that I can usually figure out what the problem is and fix it....not in this case, however. I set the tail, wing and thrust line incidences at zero and 32 pounds is not a very heavy load for something like 1100 sq inches of wing area...I guess we'll just wait and see what, if anything someone with experience on this bird has to say

(in reply to Moggy)
       Post #: 5

RE: Vailly Hurricane - 9/1/2004 1:51:00 AM   
Moggy


 

Posts: 116
Joined: 7/28/2004
From: Waterbury, CT, USA
Status: offline 		Chuck

Hurry up and get that baby airborne so we can see if the characteristics are designed into the plane. BTW, you did a nice job on her. I hope you have better luck than LA7flier.

Com'on you lot, there has to be more Vailly Hurricane drivers out there.







Piece of Cake

(in reply to LA7flier)
       Post #: 6

RE: Vailly Hurricane - 9/1/2004 4:28:23 PM   
Ham639



Posts: 230
Joined: 2/22/2002
From: Buchanan, MI, USA
Status: offline 		Moggy,
I have been in contact with a Top Gun pilot whose has flown one for 13 years now! He said just cg it a little forward of the plans and she should be fine. I did build mine with 2 degrees of positive in the wing and 1 1/2 in the Stab. This will give you a down thrust effective. I fear this might be the case of LA7fliers problem. He built his 0/0. The weight of his plane is fine. it should be a floater (for a warbird) at thoes numbers. oh, well we will see what happens.
Chuck

(in reply to Moggy)
       Post #: 7

RE: Vailly Hurricane - 9/1/2004 5:28:55 PM   
Moggy


 

Posts: 116
Joined: 7/28/2004
From: Waterbury, CT, USA
Status: offline 		Good stuff, Chuck. Exactly how much forward should the CG be? Keep us informed.








Piece of Cake

(in reply to Ham639)
       Post #: 8

RE: Vailly Hurricane - 9/1/2004 5:41:18 PM   
Ham639



Posts: 230
Joined: 2/22/2002
From: Buchanan, MI, USA
Status: offline 		1/2 inch forward. I'll keep you posted.

(in reply to Moggy)
       Post #: 9

RE: Vailly Hurricane - 9/1/2004 10:48:52 PM   
Moggy


 

Posts: 116
Joined: 7/28/2004
From: Waterbury, CT, USA
Status: offline 		LA7flier what do you think about Chuck's info? Makes sense to me but then again.....














Piece of Cake

(in reply to Ham639)
       Post #: 10

RE: Vailly Hurricane - 9/1/2004 11:25:02 PM   
LA7flier



Posts: 375
Joined: 10/18/2002
From: pleasanton, CA,
Status: offline 		Moggy
If I recall correctly, 18% was a bit forward of the plan cg...could have been 1/2 inch or so but I don't remember as I built the plane about 6 years ago and haven't flown it for 2 years. Regarding the incidences....I have always built at 0/0/0 unless the full size flew with a distinctive nose up or nose down tendency. Chuck put 2 degrees pos in the wing and 1.5 degrees pos in the stab. I don't think that will substantially affect the flight characteristics but I can't recall what the plans called for. Chucks plane looks very nice (and reminds me of mine before the BoB camo went on) One thing I did contemplate is whether full flaps is blanking the elevator. When I built the plane, I put full flaps (85 degrees I think it was) in it and landed with full flaps. Some have commented that the Vailly hurricanes they have seen look to have a very small tail surface. I'm not convinced of that but I have never measured the tail surfaces of a full size bird and scaled them down. It wouldn't make any sense to put smaller tail feathers on the plane as it would make it much more difficult to fly. Putting more nose weight into the plane didn't cure the problem and I have removed a very small amount of nose weight thinking it might solve the problem but haven't flown it to test the theory...it is still well within cg envelope. One interesting point, I read a report of a pilot that flies a restored Hurricane out of the LA area...I think it belongs to the CAF or something like that. His report was rather startling as he said it was a very difficult plane to fly....extremely pitch sensitive and required retrimming with every throttle change. DFlying formation with it was exhausting. He did say it landed just fine, however so I'm left with trying to figure whether I've somehow incorporated some odd charactistics into the flight envelope...still haven't seen a Hurri driver step forward with experience on this bird....they appear to be rarer than hens teeth and like the legendary Flying Dutchman, many have heard they are out there but none have actually seen one.....

(in reply to Moggy)
       Post #: 11

RE: Vailly Hurricane - 9/1/2004 11:28:54 PM   
Ham639



Posts: 230
Joined: 2/22/2002
From: Buchanan, MI, USA
Status: offline 		Moggy,
La7flier and I have discussed his problem in other forums. My remarks were not intended to slam LAflier in any way. He his a scale competitor and builder so he knows what he is doing. Heck, even his buddy had the same problems. On Vailly plans, it calls for the incidence numbers I stated previously. I built it to plans. I too would like to know the problems he is having so we can all avoid that issue. Once again, this is not in anyway to disrespect LA7flier in his building or flying capabilites.
Chuck

(in reply to Moggy)
       Post #: 12

RE: Vailly Hurricane - 9/1/2004 11:41:06 PM   
LA7flier



Posts: 375
Joined: 10/18/2002
From: pleasanton, CA,
Status: offline 		never took any offense to you Chuck...like you, I would love to fix this problem so I can fly my Hurricane and only put this out for anybody with one of these planes to contemplate...your plane looks great and I hope it flies as good as it looks....did I read your post right? 2 dgrees pos in the wing and 1.5 degrees pos in the stab? I would think it would be 2 pos in the wing and 1.5 NEG in the stab

(in reply to Ham639)
       Post #: 13

RE: Vailly Hurricane - 9/2/2004 12:02:23 AM   
cap10b



Posts: 493
Joined: 6/12/2002
From: Carrollton, TX, USA
Status: offline 		A friend of mine built one, Sachs Dolmar 3.2 Jr radio (Circus Hobbies back then)
Flew fine, had the custom gear from Gene whats his name out of California (he and his buddies built the A-1Sky Raiders with Webra Bully's in them) Barton is his hame.......Gene Barton Machining.
The only problem was the tail. My buddy didnt weigh the wood when he built the plane and he had to put 6.5 lbs of lead in the nose to come out right. But the plane flew fine and landed fine just the gear was a little weak.
I personally witnessed these flights and helped him build the plane. I have often thought of a Hurricane but want a Zirolli P-40 instead.

JDs

(in reply to LA7flier)
       Post #: 14

RE: Vailly Hurricane - 9/2/2004 2:48:29 AM   
Moggy


 

Posts: 116
Joined: 7/28/2004
From: Waterbury, CT, USA
Status: offline 		What we need Chaps is more pilots to step up and get in the conversation. This is an interesting subject matter. I recall talking to Clark about his 1/4 Hurricane an he said the full scale was a monster to fly. Great steady gun platform but a monster to fly. He also said his Hurricane flew like the full scale. The plane should flair though. An email I got from a Chap who is selling a DBScale Hurricane said he heard the same thing about the Vailly not flairing.

We don't need hearsay or conjecture, we need Vailly Hurricane pilots. I know there is a couple of guys in NY that fly his Hurricane, they are on his web page. Maybe word will get out about this thread and we'll get some answers.

A flair is a stall, right? Or is it a controlled crash? Chuck, can we get your Chap who has been flying one for 13 years to get on board with this thread?


JDs, 6.5 lbs of lead ? Holy Schmidts!




Piece of Cake

(in reply to cap10b)