RE: THE SKY IS NOT THE LIMIT ANYMORE - Simple RC plane reaches 16,900 AGL. Denied Class A clearance

RE: THE SKY IS NOT THE LIMIT ANYMORE - Simple RC plane reaches 16,900 AGL. Denied Class A clearance
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All Forums >> RC Airplanes >> Crash & Rebuild >> RE: THE SKY IS NOT THE LIMIT ANYMORE - Simple RC plane reaches 16,900 AGL. Denied Class A clearance

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RE: THE SKY IS NOT THE LIMIT ANYMORE - Simple RC plane ... - 9/30/2004 7:01:08 AM

randall1959

Posts: 863
Joined: 8/29/2004
From: Bolckow, MO, USA
Status: offline

You prove to me that the main rule you are breaking is the rule of common sense. Whether something is "legal" or not is not really the issue. Almost everything was legal at one time or another. At one time you could buy Laudinum (0pium) over the counter, along with a whole host of medications and such. So, did society use common sense or did the federal govt have to step in because people were getting hurt and killed?
When cars were invented there were no speed limits, but there are now. The reason? People were slaughtering each other on a daily basis and once again the rule of "common sense" was not followed and the govt had to step in.
And yes, believe it or not the government is keenly aware of the potential for a model plane to be flown into something, loaded down with explosives. Nowadays, if you throw enough money at it, you can come up with what can be compared to a Preditor. GPS, on board navigation and engine management systems are readily available and the technology is such that you can do just about anything you want today with almost any vehicle.
In Japan there are several tests going on right now with autonomous "model" helicopters that can spray crops. The entire flight can be entered into a computer and the copter does the rest.
We all know that before 911 that terrorists were HIGHLY interested in crop dusters.
Now I'm not saying that you are involved in anything like that so don't get your pants in a knot.
I'm just saying that if you ever downplay your enemy's cunning or means of accomplishing a goal, then you better have plenty of body bags.
So having said that, just because you can fly a large model plane in such a way that you can "possibly" endanger the lives of others, should you? Heck I can douse myself and light a match and prove I can go up like Michael Jackson at a Pepsi Commercial but the rule of "common sense" says otherwise.
Wouldn't your style of high altitude flying be akin to trying to drive an rc car down the highway?
Who cares if it's really legal to fly up to a certain altitude? Yes, maybe it's "legal" to fly up to the figure you just mentioned, but is it "common sense" to do so?
Actually, most aircraft accidents happen at much lower altitudes than 18,000 feet. Usually if you get up that high you are safe.
I don't care how good you think you are as an rc pilot. You are not in complete control of something you can't see. You simply can't be. There aren't enough cameras in the world to give you completely unlimited field of vision, or even very good field of vision.
I say fly the damned thing to the moon, but unless you can find some compelling reason other than to get yourself fifteen minutes of fame, then I have to disagree.
As for myself, I've seen more than one close call between model aircraft and full scale. I can quote two personal experiences. Five years ago I was at the local field. I was flying my 96 inch Telemaster not high above the ground. All of a sudden everyone starts telling me to "get down, GET DOWN NOW!!!.....it was at that time that I head this roar very closely behind me. It was a national guard C 130 doing low level practice runs and if I hadn't banked and yanked when I did I would have flown right into his aircraft

Another time I was invited to fly at a local airport fly in. I was told that all the aircraft had landed and go ahead and put on a show for the pilots. So I'm up there wringing out my Raven and once again something came from behind me and it was a National Guard Cobra that was being flown in for the event. The Raven nearly went through his rotor blades. Might have ruined all our days because I was flying in close.
Would I have been at fault? No. But, having said that, I'd really hate to be the one having to tell some sobbing widow that "gee lady I'm sorry but I was only showing off".........
Go ahead and fly the damned thing to the moon if you wish, but do it somewhere you won't be a hassle to aircraft navigation and possibly cause an accident, which I assure you will cause a real crusade to ground everything that can fly above a certain altitude, and I don't really want to fly park flyers.
Maybe you need to remember one other thing. You are basically wanting to be up there for no other reason than to get your fifteen minutes of fame. For most in the full scale community, being up there is their JOB.

_____________________________

I meant to do that.........

(in reply to jbdismukes)

Post #: 51

RE: THE SKY IS NOT THE LIMIT ANYMORE - Simple RC plane ... - 9/30/2004 8:20:35 AM

MikeMc

Posts: 572
Joined: 2/19/2004
From: Union City, CA, USA
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: randall1959

Actually, most aircraft accidents happen at much lower altitudes than 18,000 feet. Usually if you get up that high you are safe.

I'm staying out of this one but I find this comment kinda silly. Mid-air collissions are super rare so don't most accidents happen at 0 feet? Like when the plane hits the ground. 18,000 feet, 180 feet, 18 feet, 1.8 feet are all safe in that case.

_____________________________

Sponge Mike Square Pants - Insubordinate Renegade Airforce (IRA 1)

(in reply to randall1959)

Post #: 52

RE: THE SKY IS NOT THE LIMIT ANYMORE - Simple RC plane ... - 9/30/2004 2:38:53 PM

azza1105

Posts: 10
Joined: 5/6/2004
From: Ponte Vedra Beach, FL, USA
Status: offline

Ok finally we agree on something I didn’t broke any laws. You said that, I broke the common sense , your common sense. The reason that there are laws is that the word common sense is dangerous. For Osama Bin Laden group common sense is to kill most American that he can, for some other religious fanatics is close all the stores on Sunday and for you is to fly model airplane not too high.
I ‘m building models airplane for 34 years, I’ a full scale pilot for 24 years and before to start this project I deeply studied all the safety issues. I called and wrote to FAA, to the local airport tower, the FBI, and the Sheriff office that is on the corner of the field were I fly. Under 18,000 nobody told me that was illegal or dangerous. The plane is only 10 pound it has two receiver with two complete separate circuits(like the full scale) if one fail the other take control ,if the signal fail the system goes on safe mode and a autopilot take control of the model flying the plane to the take off point.
In front of an FAA inspector I turn off my TX and the plane flew back to us and slowly descending. This model airplane is 10 times safer that most of the 35 pound 40% plane that you usually see at the field.
I don’t know if you went to the TOP GUN at Palm Beach Polo club. Well these turbines were flying a 200 miles per hours in front of 5,000 people if something fail they can really kill someone. Did you ever read on Model Aviation about the danger of this meetings, no because there are sponsor involved. So do not lecture me about safety because I can prove any time that my flights are not 100% safe but they are safer of the most of the others.
After all this work I open this forum and I found you comparing me to a drug dealer, a pig headed moron, an idiot and a self-promoting imbecile.
What I have to say?
Life is unfair

Giorgio

(in reply to MikeMc)

Post #: 53

RE: THE SKY IS NOT THE LIMIT ANYMORE - Simple RC plane ... - 9/30/2004 3:00:52 PM

azza1105

Posts: 10
Joined: 5/6/2004
From: Ponte Vedra Beach, FL, USA
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: jbdismukes

You seem to imply that you should not have to be limited by safety rules established to protect others, i.e. people in commercial/government/private aircraft and on the ground beneath them, by indulging your desire to set a record without coordinating your actions within those rules. I did not say you broke such rules, but it appears I struck a nerve. Besides, if you choose to make the investment to have a reasonable chance of setting the record, wouldn't you rather have it sanctioned by the agency which could help ensure some other aircraft won't interrupt your attempt?

If someone choses to break any rule, he has no complaint about facing the consequences. Strict enforcement of rules, and the penalties for breaking them, might discourage many violators and encourage more of us to toe the line on our own.

I don’t’ know why you say that because I ‘m not braking any rule and I’m taking all the precautions to do not harm anybody .About the Sanction, I already have that my problem is that over 18,000 feet ( the actual record is 27,000) there is a Class A airspace were is mandatory an authorization from the ATC ( tower).To enter in that airspace you need a Trasponder that is an equipment too heavy for my little plane. To brake a FAI world record the model airplane needs to weight no more that 11 pounds.
So I apply with a FAA for a waiver over 18,000 feet and they denied it. They said that this area is too busy and they cannot divert airlines from their routes.
It’s fine I’m working with them to fly in another area in Florida close to an Air force bombing range were airline usually don’t fly. The reason that I wrote on my web site that I disagree with the denial is because I didn’t asked for 8 days like they wrote on the letter but for 20 minutes of time on the class A, the 8 days were raining dates if the weather wasn’t good.
Everything on public displays no problem at all. I didn’t start this forum somebody else did it, I replay to Randall only because he insulted me personally. This is typical of people that take a position without knowing the facts . I hope he will apologize for all the insults that with my surprise the forum moderator didn’t stop.
Have nice flights.
Giorgio

(in reply to jbdismukes)

Post #: 54

RE: THE SKY IS NOT THE LIMIT ANYMORE - Simple RC plane ... - 9/30/2004 6:45:49 PM

randall1959

Posts: 863
Joined: 8/29/2004
From: Bolckow, MO, USA
Status: offline

Sorry azza but you'll get no appology from me. I say what I think and don't really care who's toes I step on. In my world if you play in heavy traffic you're an idiot. If you take chances with the lives of others, you're a complete moron and that's the way I see it. You can have all the clearances in the world but that doesn't make your practice prudent or safe. It only means that someone in the govt opened a door for you and it's up to you to operate in a safe and controlled manner. And the mindset being what it is in govt these days, I wouldn't put it past them to figure that maybe you'll do something stupid and then they can shut us down. There are elements in the FAA that think that we need to go back to string flying anyway and more than a few in the aviation community feel the same way. Like I said, in my original post I said that "idiots" that fly in registered airspace will do more harm than good to this hobby. You took it upon yourself to identify with that remark, so maybe this leads me to believe that you DO sometimes fly way the hell up there hoping that you won't get noticed on radar, but yet telling the rest of us that you are doing things completely legal. But we all KNOW that even if you don't practice unsafe flying habits, there are those that do. I think this is more about grandstanding than any sort of "national pride" issue. Who's national pride anyway? France? If that's the case then why come here and not go there and set the record? Oh yea, France is nearly completely controlled by it's own government and probably wouldn't allow it either unless someone got paid off. That is simply my oppinion though and that's all.
Do what you want, but if you do happen to get someone killed, look out for the angry mob that will beat a path to your door. Having said that, I'm done with this thread. This pony has been beat black and blue and it still ain't goin nowhere.

< Message edited by randall1959 -- 9/30/2004 6:48:02 PM >

_____________________________

I meant to do that.........

(in reply to azza1105)

Post #: 55

RE: THE SKY IS NOT THE LIMIT ANYMORE - Simple RC plane ... - 9/30/2004 7:28:18 PM

azza1105

Posts: 10
Joined: 5/6/2004
From: Ponte Vedra Beach, FL, USA
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: randall1959
I'm done with this thread. This pony has been beat black and blue and it still ain't goin nowhere.

Me too, but Randall calm down I will not kill anybody ,hopefully one of this days I will receive a waiver and break this 30 years old record, put my plane in the attic and everybody will be happy.
I still regret your insults, take a anger management class and have a nice day

Giorgio

(in reply to randall1959)

Post #: 56

RE: THE SKY IS NOT THE LIMIT ANYMORE - Simple RC plane ... - 9/30/2004 7:32:42 PM

ghee-grose

Posts: 1229
Joined: 4/15/2004
From: Athens, AL, USA
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: azza1105

take a anger management class and have a nice day

Giorgio

That's a great movie... Anger Management (Adam Sandler and Jack Nicholson)....everybody should see that one at least twice! I just watched it last night!!!

(in reply to azza1105)

Post #: 57

RE: THE SKY IS NOT THE LIMIT ANYMORE - Simple RC plane ... - 9/30/2004 11:01:59 PM

randall1959

Posts: 863
Joined: 8/29/2004
From: Bolckow, MO, USA
Status: offline

Actually I'm a pretty mellow dude. If I wasn't I'm sure my coworkers wouldn't have survived so long working beside me since we work in such a high stress environment. I'm a great guy! Just ask my exes

_____________________________

I meant to do that.........

(in reply to ghee-grose)

Post #: 58

RE: THE SKY IS NOT THE LIMIT ANYMORE - Simple RC plane ... - 10/1/2004 1:49:34 AM

rw Guinn

Posts: 463
Joined: 1/9/2002
From: Fort Worth, TX, USA
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: azza1105

quote:

ORIGINAL: randall1959
I'm done with this thread. This pony has been beat black and blue and it still ain't goin nowhere.

Me too, but Randall calm down I will not kill anybody ,hopefully one of this days I will receive a waiver and break this 30 years old record, put my plane in the attic and everybody will be happy.
I still regret your insults, take a anger management class and have a nice day

Giorgio

Famous last words, uttered by a number of felons.
You are a danger to the world at large. Period. You seem to think that those people landing at Orlando have no rights, but you do. You are flying at high altitude (above 2000' AGL), in an extremely crowded air corridor, and don't seem to see anything wrong. The FAA told you that it was too crowded, find another place. WE even pointed out a few places where you would have no problem, no traffic--zero chance of a mid-air. Yot you persist in wanting (and possibly even using) the airspace around a few dozen major airports/military bases.
I just hope you get caught before you do kill somebody

(in reply to azza1105)

Post #: 59

RE: THE SKY IS NOT THE LIMIT ANYMORE - Simple RC plane ... - 10/1/2004 2:22:32 AM

azza1105

Posts: 10
Joined: 5/6/2004
From: Ponte Vedra Beach, FL, USA
Status: offline

quote:

Famous last words, uttered by a number of felons.
You are a danger to the world at large. Period. You seem to think that those people landing at Orlando have no rights, but you do. You are flying at high altitude (above 2000' AGL), in an extremely crowded air corridor, and don't seem to see anything wrong. The FAA told you that it was too crowded, find another place. WE even pointed out a few places where you would have no problem, no traffic--zero chance of a mid-air. Yot you persist in wanting (and possibly even using) the airspace around a few dozen major airports/military bases.
I just hope you get caught before you do kill somebody

I do not have an answer for your post , I think that you didn't read my posts or you need some serious help. Now you are in charge an decided that over 2000 feet is dangerous, well is better that AMA that said 400 feet .Who are “we” you ? Who are you that have a place with 0 chance of mid air collision?
Caught from whom? The forum police? I wrote several times that I’m in contact with all the authorities and work with them, do you really think that I will keep a web site with my address and all my videos for something illegal.
You are probably crazy!

< Message edited by azza1105 -- 10/1/2004 2:24:19 AM >

(in reply to rw Guinn)

Post #: 60

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