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MOKI BOOTLEG & RE-LABELED ENGINES - 9/8/2004 2:36:55 AM   
mr.moki


 

Posts: 3
Joined: 8/27/2004
From: Brookfield, WI, USA
Status: offline 		It has come to our attention that the manufacturer of Moki engines in Hungary is attempting to sell re-labeled engines in the US, and engines bearing the Moki name as well. This is in direct violation of our exclusive import contract. This also represents a direct violation of our ownership of the US Moki registered trademark. Please be advised that purchasing one of these engines may subject you to a US customs violation. These engines will not be serviced by us in any fashion. If you acquire one of these bootleg engines, your only service recourse will be to send it back to Hungary. If anyone has any information regarding this illegal activity, please let us know.

James Gerard
Gerard Enterprises, Inc
MOKI USA
moki usa@wi.rr.com
(262) 784-4510

>>EDIT: Reformat print. wr.

< Message edited by William Robison -- 9/8/2004 7:37:43 AM >
       Post #: 1

RE: MOKI BOOTLEG & RE-LABELED ENGINES - 9/8/2004 3:10:47 AM   
ben flyn



Posts: 1463
Joined: 11/12/2003
From: Windsor, CO, USA
Status: offline 		Has YOUR price gone up on these fine engines? If not what ARE YOU worrying about?

(in reply to mr.moki)
       Post #: 2

RE: MOKI BOOTLEG & RE-LABELED ENGINES - 9/8/2004 3:41:27 AM   
Cyclic Hardover



Posts: 7082
Joined: 5/7/2002
From: New Mexico, USA
Status: offline 		Although I am not a Moki man, this is good information. I also doubt that threats of Customs Violations will win you any new customers in this crowd. However please elaborate as to how the R/C world is to identify one of these engines. If you don't, well with the area RCU covers, you may as well hang it up. Nobody will take a chance on either one of them

< Message edited by Cyclic Hardover -- 9/8/2004 8:13:41 PM >

(in reply to ben flyn)
       Post #: 3

RE: MOKI BOOTLEG & RE-LABELED ENGINES - 9/8/2004 12:08:53 PM   
Flyboy Dave



Posts: 13181
Joined: 3/20/2002
From: San Bernardino County, CA, USA
Status: online 		A "customs violation" for buying an engine from the manufacturer ?

FBD.

_____________________________

An engineer says.... "That won''t work".
A mechanic says..."Oh yeah, watch this".
"Old Age, and Treachery will overcome youth and skill".
Revver Bro #4.

(in reply to Cyclic Hardover)
       Post #: 4

RE: MOKI BOOTLEG & RE-LABELED ENGINES - 9/8/2004 12:24:14 PM   
Spoiler



Posts: 309
Joined: 6/5/2003
From: Cape TownWestern Cape, SOUTH AFRICA
Status: offline 		Sounds like they aren't so pleased with you either! What about internet orders. If someone in the US orders one from just engines for instance, is that also a bootleg engine?? Bootleg means "counterfeight" - the manufacturer cant counterfeight (fake) its own product.

(in reply to Flyboy Dave)
       Post #: 5

RE: MOKI BOOTLEG & RE-LABELED ENGINES - 9/8/2004 1:42:08 PM   
JoeAirPort



Posts: 6609
Joined: 8/11/2003
From: Milwaukee, WI, USA
Status: online
quote:

ORIGINAL: Spoiler

Sounds like they aren't so pleased with you either! What about internet orders. If someone in the US orders one from just engines for instance, is that also a bootleg engine?? Bootleg means "counterfeight" - the manufacturer cant counterfeight (fake) its own product.


You can't order a Moki from JustEngines if you live in the US. It's in JustEngine's FAQ for US customers.

It sounds like Moki MFG is trying to sell the same engine with a different label to skirt around their contract with Mr Moki (and try to sell more engines). It's kind of like brand labeling. A company I used to work for did this as well. They just painted the product a different color and had a different logo. Although they had no contract with anyone so there was no re-course possible. Is it ethical? Ethical is getting to be an old fashioned word in the business world these days.

So the way I understand it, it's the same engine. But if you have problems with one, you might not be able to get support (except maybe here).

< Message edited by JoeAirPort -- 9/8/2004 7:58:36 AM >

(in reply to Spoiler)
       Post #: 6

RE: MOKI BOOTLEG & RE-LABELED ENGINES - 9/8/2004 2:14:41 PM   
Rudeboy



Posts: 3249
Joined: 12/9/2002
From: Bejing, BELGIUM
Status: offline 		Re-labeled as what...?

Aero-naut in Germany sells them as "Mark Engines"...

moki .htm">Mark Motoren

_____________________________

Revver Brother #33
...I think it needs more power...

(in reply to JoeAirPort)
       Post #: 7

RE: MOKI BOOTLEG & RE-LABELED ENGINES - 9/8/2004 2:28:15 PM   
Sport_Pilot



Posts: 7269
Joined: 1/21/2002
From: Acworth, GA, USA
Status: online 		So the Huns are flooding the market with Moki 's.

(in reply to mr.moki)
       Post #: 8

RE: MOKI BOOTLEG & RE-LABELED ENGINES - 9/8/2004 2:30:20 PM   
LuvBipes



Posts: 1059
Joined: 12/29/2001
From: Luxembourg City, LUXEMBOURG
Status: offline 		Yep. they are sold via the internet direct from Hungary under the "Mark" brand. I fail to see the illegality of a hobbiest responding to an offer from the manufacturer to sell an item under a different brand name. GM makes very similar cars under various "brands" Chevy, Pontiac, Olds, etc. I know from personal experience, that Mark and Moki engines are identical other than the name on the engine case. And no, you won't have any service on the engines in the U.S. (gotta' send them back to Hungary), that's what you give up in exchange for a great price.

That Mr Gerard is upset I can understand, since nobody likes competition, but threatening his potential customers is not very smart from a commercial point of view IMHO.

_____________________________

Keep your eyes in the skies and your future should follow.

(in reply to Rudeboy)
       Post #: 9

RE: MOKI BOOTLEG & RE-LABELED ENGINES - 9/8/2004 6:03:21 PM   
Cyclic Hardover



Posts: 7082
Joined: 5/7/2002
From: New Mexico, USA
Status: offline 		Do we know if these are actually " Moki 's" for less. Not that I want one but it could be like comparing the OS to TT which in my opinion are equal in performance but the cost is a big spread. I think he should have kept quiet about it.

(in reply to LuvBipes)
       Post #: 10

RE: MOKI BOOTLEG & RE-LABELED ENGINES - 9/8/2004 6:33:02 PM   
Ed Smith


 

Posts: 2773
Joined: 12/29/2001
From: Brantford, ON, CANADA
Status: offline 		If Gerard Enterprises/ Moki USA has a written agreement to be the sole US distributor of that engine then the company has valid complaint. If Moki is using back door methods to bypass the distributor then that is wrong. It begs the question as to what the relationship between these two companies is.

As was mentioned, Moki USA should explain to the potential customer how to identify the legitimate engine, if for no other reason than the buyer can get it serviced.

Threatening me with customs violations will just make me rush out and buy the lookalike!!

Ed S

(in reply to Cyclic Hardover)
       Post #: 11

RE: MOKI BOOTLEG & RE-LABELED ENGINES - 9/8/2004 6:55:04 PM   
JoeAirPort



Posts: 6609
Joined: 8/11/2003
From: Milwaukee, WI, USA
Status: online 		Mr Moki , does this have anything to do with your selling Moki 2.10's NIB for a well discounted price in the RCU Marketplace? Are you getting out of the Moki business? Or are you trying to compete with these re-labled Moki engines that are selling for less? Just curious.

< Message edited by JoeAirPort -- 9/8/2004 6:57:44 PM >

(in reply to Ed Smith)
       Post #: 12

RE: MOKI BOOTLEG & RE-LABELED ENGINES - 9/8/2004 8:09:51 PM   
Cyclic Hardover



Posts: 7082
Joined: 5/7/2002
From: New Mexico, USA
Status: offline 		This will be an interesting outcome.

(in reply to JoeAirPort)
       Post #: 13

RE: MOKI BOOTLEG & RE-LABELED ENGINES - 9/8/2004 8:47:23 PM   
hilleyja


 

Posts: 2168
Joined: 1/7/2002
From: Salem, WV, USA
Status: offline
quote:

Cyclic Hardover:
This will be an interesting outcome.


It would be more interesting to see Gerard respond to these follow-on posts on the discussion forum they started.


_____________________________

Jim Hilley
AMA #671825
RCCA# 758
Twist 150 Brotherhood #14

(in reply to Cyclic Hardover)
       Post #: 14

RE: MOKI BOOTLEG & RE-LABELED ENGINES - 9/8/2004 11:15:31 PM   
Ed Smith


 

Posts: 2773
Joined: 12/29/2001
From: Brantford, ON, CANADA
Status: offline
quote:

Mr Moki , does this have anything to do with your selling Moki 2.10's NIB for a well discounted price in the RCU Marketplace? Are you getting out of the Moki business? Or are you trying to compete with these re-labled Moki engines that are selling for less? Just curious.


AHA, The plot thickens.

This whole discussion brings up the issue of online sales, which of course is worldwide. Should a company have the right to sell, online, into a country in which it has contract distributer agreements? I would say NO.

Ed S

(in reply to hilleyja)
       Post #: 15

RE: MOKI BOOTLEG & RE-LABELED ENGINES - 9/8/2004 11:35:03 PM   
mr.moki


 

Posts: 3
Joined: 8/27/2004
From: Brookfield, WI, USA
Status: offline 		Wow! What an interesting stream of comments. First, let me apologize if I made anyone
apprehensive with my previously posted message. This was intended to inform rather than
intimidate. My mention of the US customs issue was aimed at possible commercial
purchases intended for resale. There is indeed a US customs declaration in effect that
would provide for possible seizure of any “ Moki ” branded goods coming into the US
“through the back door”. It has been enforced before and it could be again if necessary.
On the other hand, any individual that may purchase either a “Mark” branded engine, or
any other re-labeled Moki engine, would not have anything to be concerned about. Your
real concern should be the fact that your engine would have no US warranty, and we will
not service it. It is like buying a Nikon camera in Japan and asking Nikon USA to repair it
under warranty. They won’t, and neither will we. On the other hand, commercial
importation of Moki branded engines for resale would not only be a customs violation and
a contract violation, it would also be a registered trademark violation. Someone has
posted the question of how to identify a legal Moki engine. First of all, it is very unlikely
that you would ever find a bootleg engine being offered by any retail hobby shop, or mail
order dealer in the USA. However, this may not be the case in Canada. The real tip-off is
that the engine box would have the trademarked Moki logo. In addition, it would have a
large label on the box showing that it came from Gerard Enterprises, Inc. It would also
have all of the proper instructions and other paperwork from Gerard Enterprises in the
box. Also, all legitimate Moki engines will have a serial number on the side of the lug. All
Moki engines that pass through our hands are individually inspected and adjusted if
necessary. In addition, one engine from every carton is dismantled and checked for
dimensional consistency. Again, the primary intent of my previous forum posting was to
advise anyone considering buying a Moki engine from Hungary, that they were buying an
engine with no US service and support. In addition, you would probably not be saving
any money, particularly if you ever have any problem. If you look for my commercial ad
here in RCU for Moki 2.10 engines, you will see what I am talking about!

Thanks,
Jim Gerard
Gerard Enterprises, Inc.
MOKI USA
(262) 784-4510

(in reply to Ed Smith)
       Post #: 16

RE: MOKI BOOTLEG & RE-LABELED ENGINES - 9/8/2004 11:53:11 PM   
pilotkelowna



Posts: 143
Joined: 12/28/2001
From: Kelowna, BC, CANADA
Status: offline 		James - I presume our Canadian hobby shops selling the Moki line are obtaining their product from you, but unless you hold the Canadian copyright as well, my understanding is that our stores would not be doing anything untoward in ordering direct from Europe or wherever and selling retail. Probably not likely that they would, as the North American warranty you offer has considerable value to most modellers - I would not be wanting to send an engine overseas for this work.

If the manufacturer was bootlegging these engines, they are still factory originals with the usual logo and serial # I would think, but the instructions and warranty certificate would not be yours, right ?? Bootlegged products are still the original goods but bypassing the authorized selling network. Knockoffs are altogether different, and not the original product.

(in reply to mr.moki)
       Post #: 17