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RE: MOKI BOOTLEG & RE-LABELED ENGINES - 9/10/2004 6:47 AM   
downunder



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This all kinda reminds me of Super Tigre when one of the big distributors (Tower?) wanted exclusive rights to them. ST changed the mould to read Como for the American market so there was no question about warranty repairs. Now if Enya did the same thing for an enthusiastic distributor (maybe call them USEnya*?) then you guys could finally get a decent Japanese engine

* Copyright...patented....I got it first...send me money...

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RE: MOKI BOOTLEG & RE-LABELED ENGINES - 9/10/2004 7:36 AM   
William Robison



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DU:

I think "Enya-Ear" would be a good name. Or possibly "Enya-Rear."

Haw.

Bill.

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RE: MOKI BOOTLEG & RE-LABELED ENGINES - 9/10/2004 10:02 AM   
DarZeelon



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Nomenclature is ruling everything these days.

The company that make MVVS engines in Brno, Czech Republic, is D.A.T, spol s r.o..

They are, however, fully identified with MVVS and this engine is not produced under any other name that I know of.

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RE: MOKI BOOTLEG & RE-LABELED ENGINES - 9/10/2004 2:35 PM   
ZAGNUT



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nothing new here, just look at all the different brand names that come stamped on novarossi car engines.

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RE: MOKI BOOTLEG & RE-LABELED ENGINES - 9/10/2004 3:23 PM   
buchtes


 

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now let's hear the MFG's response to this, come on MOKI Hungary, ( or MET '93 Ltd) give us your point of view.

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RE: MOKI BOOTLEG & RE-LABELED ENGINES - 9/10/2004 5:48 PM   
rmh



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Down under-- When ST made the Como--they actually changed a few internals and externals .
Garofoli's son ran the assembly of the COMO.
All of this happened in 1976-7- and I met his son while he was visiting with the owner of World Engines - in Cincinnati.
The owner of World Engines (John Maloney) had at that time, an exclusive on the ST and the OS engine lines .
If one looks around at engines made in the Eastern Rim--engines which bear a very strong resemblence to the OS , can be found -that's another story---

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RE: MOKI BOOTLEG & RE-LABELED ENGINES - 9/10/2004 11:41 PM   
Scar



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I am reminded of a situation I encountered when operating a repair shop. A customer had a Massey diesel farm tractor and wanted me to overhaul it. I learned that the engine was a Perkins diesel, manufactured for Massey, and that there were minor dimensional differences. The result was that I had to buy my parts from Massey, and could not go to other aftermarket manufacturers who sold replacement liners, pistons, etc. for Perkins engines.

Now, I work for a large diesel engine manufacturer, and know a bit more about the story. It seems the original sale of a large, expensive diesel engine is seldom profitable for the manufacturer. Sales of repair parts, however is always profitible. So, the manufacturer would sell as many engines as possible, by making the price competitive, recouping losses and making profits from later engine parts sales.

Not relevant here, perhaps, except that I will submit the following : Follow the money, to find the root of most commercial disagreements.

Best wishes,
Dave Olson

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RE: MOKI BOOTLEG & RE-LABELED ENGINES - 9/11/2004 5:36 AM   
PlaneKrazee



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I had a Como 51. They were very good engines with properly heat treated crank shafts.

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RE: MOKI BOOTLEG & RE-LABELED ENGINES - 9/15/2004 2:18 AM   
Moki Factory


 

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To member "buchtes" and all of our valued customers:
At one time Gerard Enterprises did have an exclusive sales agreement with the factory.
However, he was and is in default on his obligations under the contract.
Gerard enterprises was notified that the exclusive sales agreement is void.
Unlike Mr. Gerard we do not think this is the proper place to discuss the details of the contract or trademark violations. So we shall refrain from more comment on that.

For those of your wondering about Mark engines.
We have used the Mark name in Germany for about 10 years now. That is our alternate brand name and trademark. These are not Bootleg or Re Labeled engines.
For those of you that have purchased our engines in the last year, you will notice the Moki and the Mark name are no longer on the engines. Our engines all have a distinctive "M" in place of the old Moki or Mark logo.

Our engines are available just about everywhere except Gerard Enterprises. (At least after he sells out his present stock anyway)
Our gasoline engines that were previously only available in Europe are now being made available to the US market too. We hope to have a major shipment of these in the US very soon.
We of course suggest you see one of our authorized dealers first. If there is no dealer near you, we do accept direct orders. Please note that we are a factory and we are not a stocking distributor. Our stock depends what the most recent production run was. Some motors might be in stock, some might not.

As we transition to our new distribution setup, Dave Patrick Models has agreed to do any service work that might come up.

We do look forward to a bright future now that we will be able to bring our valued customers the new products they have wanted for so long.

From all the staff at:
The Moki Factory

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RE: MOKI BOOTLEG & RE-LABELED ENGINES - 9/15/2004 2:50 AM   
djlyon



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Dead silence.

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RE: MOKI BOOTLEG & RE-LABELED ENGINES - 9/15/2004 2:54 AM   
djlyon



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Tell us Mr Gerard; were your previous posts some sort of flim flam? What did you hope to accomplish by them? To convince potential buyers that you were still in the loop and were going to provide a service to your customers more than any other seller? A bit of misinformation don't you think? That was a true disservice to legitimate importers.

Denis

Love my Moki 1.35

< Message edited by djlyon -- 9/15/2004 4:43 AM >


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RE: MOKI BOOTLEG & RE-LABELED ENGINES - 9/15/2004 3:04 AM   
JoeAirPort



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So Gerrard IS selling out his stock. Well it is a great price I must admit.

Joe

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RE: MOKI BOOTLEG & RE-LABELED ENGINES - 9/15/2004 3:12 AM   
buchtes


 

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Thanks Moki , there are allways two sides to the coin.

besides, Mark or Moki , one of the Best

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RE: MOKI BOOTLEG & RE-LABELED ENGINES - 9/15/2004 3:26 AM   
harryg


 

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oh boy, this is really getting fun now. Come on - I want to hear more dirty laundry!

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RE: MOKI BOOTLEG & RE-LABELED ENGINES - 9/15/2004 4:27 AM   
ossie



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G'day to the guys at the MOKI factory,
Good luck with your new distribution setup, I'm sure you guys will do okay.
I've got two MARK 2.10's both work like a charm......
Kind regards
Ken

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RE: MOKI BOOTLEG & RE-LABELED ENGINES - 9/15/2004 4:45 PM   
PlaneKrazee



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It would appear the old US rep was trying to sell the engines at a higher profit and then couldn't meet his sales quota. I met him a few years ago at the WRAM show.

Moki 2.10 or ZDZ 40, it's a toss up. If the plug wire fits I would say ZDZ. Sorry Moki .

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RE: MOKI BOOTLEG & RE-LABELED ENGINES - 9/15/2004 4:56 PM   
Hobbsy



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Mr. Moki Factory, I have two of your older engines, a .51 RC and a .61 LongStroke, both are very fine engines, have you entertained the idea of making some more of them? Thanks

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RE: MOKI BOOTLEG & RE-LABELED ENGINES - 9/15/2004 9:05 PM   
maxtenet



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MVVS markets engines in the smaller sizes as Modela. In the '70's they also made the BE line of engines including an inline twin.

Skyward = Picco

Como =Supertigre

Engel Rebels = Hungarian Fok

Mohawk = O.K. engine


This kind of stuff happens all the time , these are just the ones I could think of off the top of my head, but there are many rebadged engines out there.

Max

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RE: MOKI BOOTLEG & RE-LABELED ENGINES - 9/16/2004 2:02 AM   
Todd D


 

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I've read alot of threads on RCU this one is by far the most interesting! REally alot of good info. Thanks Moki factory for clearing this up!

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RE: MOKI BOOTLEG & RE-LABELED ENGINES - 9/17/2004 12:12 AM   
dirtybird


 

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I am curious about the new Moki gasoline engines. Any information somewhere on those?

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RE: MOKI BOOTLEG & RE-LABELED ENGINES - 9/17/2004 2:28 AM   
rmh



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nice but not very light according to spies--

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RE: MOKI BOOTLEG & RE-LABELED ENGINES - 9/17/2004 6:15 PM   
IXLR8


 

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Does this mean we can buy a Moki from Just Engines now?

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RE: MOKI BOOTLEG & RE-LABELED ENGINES - 9/17/2004 10:02 PM   
JoeAirPort



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quote:

ORIGINAL: IXLR8

Does this mean we can buy a Moki from Just Engines now?


Now THAT is a good question. I didn't think about that issue. Right now, for those of you who don't know, JustEngines cannot sell Moki engines in the US. Wonder if that will change. hmmmm.

Joe

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RE: MOKI BOOTLEG & RE-LABELED ENGINES - 9/20/2004 9:13 PM   
JBjr



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i'm posting this for my father Jim Bisson......

I have been watching this discussion for a while now and feel it is time for me to weigh-in on this subject. I think that I have a better vantage point on this mess than most. My company (Bisson Custom Mufflers) has had a long working relationship with Jim Gerard (Gerard Enterprises, Inc. MOKI USA). With few exceptions, Moki engines have my mufflers on them. This symbiotic relationship started twelve years ago at the Toledo show when I was just starting to make mufflers and Jim was just starting to import and market the Moki engines. It was clear to Jim that in order to sell engines he needed good mufflers. It was equally evident to me, that working with Jim would help to expand our muffler business. I am privy to some of the problems that have resulted in this unfortunate current situation. The company in Hungary that makes the Moki glow engines, that we all know and love, is actually called Remek Motorok Kft. It has had this name for only a few months, and has actually changed it’s name four times in the last ten years! It is anybody’s guess as to what this was all about? This succession of companies has enjoyed remarkable growth in the US market from the very beginning with Gerard’s assistance. Within the last three years, that growth has turned to decline. Aside from any sales information from Remek or Gerard, I can tell you without question that the popularity of Moki glow engines is fading. This decline can be clearly seen from our sales of mufflers for Moki glow engines.

A few years back Jim Gerard was successful in getting the Moki line established as a high profile product line at Horizon. I should also point out that Jim helped make it possible for B.C.M. to become a successful product line with both Horizon and Hobbico. This relationship that Moki enjoyed with Horizon ended in February of this year. There were many reasons for this, such as declining sales, significantly higher (30-35%) wholesale costs. This was due to price increases by Moki and the unfavorable Euro/USD exchange rate. The decline in sales has to do with many things, not the least of which is the rapid change in interest from glow engines to gasoline engines in the Moki displacement range. Jim has continually stressed the importance of moving into the gasoline market to the Moki manufacture for many years with no real success. To date there have been only two prototype 1.80 gasoline engines tested that are basically quick "slap on a Walbro and an ignition system" conversions, that have proven to not be very impressive. Probably the biggest thing that caused Horizon to loose interest was the fact that Moki has not introduced any new products in over six years.

Because of declining demand, not only in the US, but in other world markets, Remek has decided that it would be OK to sell Moki engines, and engines with other names on them, through the back door! When you have established good relationships with your importers, distributors, and dealers, you don’t start selling your products trough some phony Canadian web site, or even worse, directly from Hungary. This kind of thing has been going on now for about a year or so, and in my estimation, is a very foolish move. Many of you will remember that Moki engines were often in short supply. This was not because Horizon, or Gerard failed to purchase enough to meet the demand, it was because the factory could not build them. Judging from our sales of mufflers to other Moki importers around the world, I would guess that about 80% of Moki ’s production comes to the USA. Now with the worldwide decline in sales, the factory finds, that from time to time, they have excess engines with no customers. This is one of the reasons that things have really "hit a brick wall" The Moki folks have gotten used to the idea that no matter how many engines they make, they could sell them all to Gerard Enterprise. In the middle of July, having just received a large shipment of engines, Gerard was informed that they had another large batch ready to ship. Jim had little option but to tell them that they would have to wait a while. This apparently caused widespread panic at Moki .

Unfortunately, it has always been that the Moki company never had the operating capital to produce engines and stock them. They must sell each production run (generally 150 -200 units) in order to have the cash to build the next run! This dilemma lead to much discussion that resulted in Gerard offering to take half of the engines, and a large number of spare parts in order to help them out. Jim paid the money based on a proforma invoice and shipping manifest that was sent by the factory. The bottom line is that after waiting for the funds to arrive at their bank, they refused to ship the order, and they refuse to return the money! They are claiming that they are imposing a 50% cancellation penalty because Jim did not buy all of the engines. This is B.S. of the highest order. As it turns out now, virtually all of their other customers around the world know about this, and have refused to prepay for any orders in the future, and some have dropped the Moki line altogether. It is a strange logic that would lead somebody to rip-off his biggest customer, and then expect that his other customers wouldn’t run for the hills!

One very distressing aspect of the whole mess is that a good portion of the order that was never shipped was a lot of Moki spare parts. To me this shows a real disregard for the people that are really most important, we the Moki owners. With no parts coming in, Gerard will soon have a big problem in repairing our engines and providing parts. By the way, I notice that " moki factory" has posted in this forum that Dave Patrick Models has agreed to do Moki service work. I can assure you that this is not true, this is just a desperate bit of imagination by the folks in Hungary. One other idiotic move that these guys have made is to show on their web site that Horizon is their US distributor. I guess they think that this will impress somebody somewhere. If you follow the Horizon link you will find, as you probably already know, all Moki engines and parts have been discontinued. To wrap this up I would suggest that the Remek company is probably at the end of the line. It has been a good ride, I love my Moki engines, as I am sure you do as well. Time to buy a new gas engine and retire that trusty old glow Moki .

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RE: MOKI BOOTLEG & RE-LABELED ENGINES - 9/20/2004 10:31 PM   
LuvBipes



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wow......

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