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Draganflyer IV problems - 9/17/2004 1:49:49 PM   
SenseiTG


 

Posts: 12
Joined: 9/1/2004
From: TrelleborgScania, SWEDEN
Status: offline 		Att: Other Draganflyer Users


I have a few problems with my newly purchased draganflyer that i'd like your help/thoughts on:
I recieved my draganflyer yesterday and it is now assembled and has been successfully airborne.

1 - The edges on the blades are *very* rugged and no matter how much i adjust the flyer it seems extremely unstable. Maybe my expectations on ease of flight were too high but i have read that bad blades could cause instability. When you got your DFs how did the blades look? I could sand the blades to make them smooth but should this really be necessary when buying a brand new flyer? (Could be a problem with me rather than the flyer tho )

2 - After fully charging the draganflyer it only flew for about 6 minutes (just hovering max 10cm above the ground) before i needed more than 3/4 throttle to keep it up... can this really be right? (same thing both flights i have had time to do)

3 - The charger behaves very strange... sometimes when plugged in the green light stays off.. Sometimes it turns on for a few seconds then goes off... sometimes it starts to blink after about one second. If it doesnt blink (about halv of the times) nothing happens when i connect the battery. If it does the light goes to steady on for anywhere between a few seconds to nearly 10 minutes then goes off again even though the battery apparently does not have much juice in it when i connect it to the draganflyer. Have also tried connecting the battery first... sometimes it begins charging (green light), but stops after a while. Sometimes nothing happens at all.

4 - One of the motors on the draganflyer has been acting up since the first time i started the flyer. It spins up but oncee it reaches just below the speed required to lift off it stops completely! Adding attitional thrust will fire up the motor again so takeoff is possible yet rather difficult since it veers off to the right as it leaves the ground. Once airborne it works well.

Would be greatful for quick replies... i am very exited to starting my "pilot training"
       Post #: 1

RE: Draganflyer IV problems - 9/18/2004 9:12:41 AM   
Nyala


 

Posts: 28
Joined: 5/9/2004
From: Heitersheim, GERMANY
Status: offline 		Hi SenseiTG

For starters it is recommended that you sand your blades to increase efficiency however the DF should fly no problem on unsanded blades. As for stability, the DF is relatively hard to fly in the begining. It will take some practice to become a smooth pilot. Remember to give very small inputs on the sticks. Like a helicopter it requires constant controlling. The issue on your battery charge is another problem. I assume you have Li-poly batteries. Take a multimeter and check the voltage of your packs. make sure that they never get discharged below 9 V. If they have gone below 9 V you will need to read some info on Li-Poly batteries to see if you can save them. At full charge they should have 12.6 V. Be very carefull with the Li-Polys as they can explode if overcharged or damaged. I would recomend that you get a decent charger like the Jamara X-Peak 3. This will help save your batteries and you will see exactly what the charger is doing at all times and it turns off automaticaly when the batteries are fully charged.

In the mean time to get some airtime you can make a tether cord and connect the DF to a 12 V car or motorbike battery. This will give you unlimited flight time. Remember to let the motors cool off every 10 minutes or so.

The motor speed problems could be related to you battery problems.Also make sure that all the rotors can turn freely without resistance (except from the motors of-course). Hold the DF in your hand and put some throttle on. Tilt the DF in all directions and make sure that the DF tries to counter your movements. This will tell you if all the gyro's are working.

Make sure your trim sliders are in the center to start. From there you can adjust you trim to keep the DF level. You will still need to fly it though, it will never hover just on its own.

I hope this helps a bit.

Good flying

Nyala

< Message edited by Nyala -- 9/18/2004 9:16:26 AM >

(in reply to SenseiTG)
       Post #: 2

RE: Draganflyer IV problems - 9/18/2004 10:13:52 AM   
SenseiTG


 

Posts: 12
Joined: 9/1/2004
From: TrelleborgScania, SWEDEN
Status: offline 		Thank you very much for your help.

I am considering buying a new charger and another battery.
The current one seems fine though when checking with my multimeter.

By the way, do you know the weight of the original 1320mah lipo pack?

I have managed to charge the battery but it requires unplugging and connecting the battery several times since the charger turns off. This works fine though and the battery does not get hot or anything. Shaking the charger a bit makes it behave weird so I'm fairly confident that it's a bad connection somewhere in the charger which does make me kind of worried since lipos are so unstable...

The motor problem has stopped, don't ask me why and I have been able to get some flight time and i'm steadily learning to keep this thing stable.

Had already figured how to check the gyros and they are fine. Motors are turning perfectly.

So: most problems "solved"! However, the charger still seems broken. Will ask draganfly inc for a replacement or buy a better one.


And thanks again for your help!

(in reply to Nyala)
       Post #: 3

RE: Draganflyer IV problems - 9/18/2004 10:38:49 AM   
Nyala


 

Posts: 28
Joined: 5/9/2004
From: Heitersheim, GERMANY
Status: offline 		No problem

glat to offer some advice. I have had my DF for 2 and half years now. I will be replacing my motors today for the 3rd time. The graupner speed 300 7.2 V are the one to use. You will see the need to replace them when they get too weak to lift the DF in a couple of months time. After having learned to fly the DF I now have several Helis including a Zoom 400. I use the DF to practice my nose in hovering and other basic moves required to fly a heli properly. Its loads of fun.

If you have any problems, feel free to contact me.

Regards

Nyala

(in reply to SenseiTG)
       Post #: 4

RE: Draganflyer IV problems - 9/20/2004 5:09:22 AM   
Pipefish



Posts: 194
Joined: 1/23/2004
From: CuritibaParanᬠBRAZIL
Status: offline 		Hin there!

In my experience the Graupner (read Mabuchi) speed 300 7,2V don´t - exactly - match the size (in height) as the original ones.

Mine was 1,5mm lower than the original, so I bought 4 originals and it works perfectly.

Nyala, can you tell me about your Shogun 400? How high it flies? How windy can you pilot him in outdoors? You can carry the Eyecam that comes with the DF ?

Regards.

P.S. let´s keep this topic, because I think we have plenty of experiences to share here about the DF IV!!!!!

(in reply to Nyala)
       Post #: 5

Draganflyer IV replacement parts - 9/20/2004 8:39:37 AM   
SenseiTG


 

Posts: 12
Joined: 9/1/2004
From: TrelleborgScania, SWEDEN
Status: offline 		Does it really matter if they are a few mm lower than the originals?
If they are cheaper and work just as well then why not use the Graupner motors instead?

Does anybody know the weight of the original DF battery?
Could somebody give me acceptable specifications for the DF motors?

Reason for asking is that i'm looking for locally available replacement parts.
Don't want to wait weeks everytime I order.

If money was no issue (yeah i wish...) what replacement motors would you reccommend for the DF?
Is there any other motor that would increase performance, flight time or not wear down as fast as the original motors?

Battery: same question... ?

(in reply to Pipefish)
       Post #: 6

RE: Draganflyer IV replacement parts - 9/20/2004 11:02:45 PM   
Pipefish



Posts: 194
Joined: 1/23/2004
From: CuritibaParanᬠBRAZIL
Status: offline 		Yes, it matters, because the friction.

When you have a pinion that touches only 50% of your gear you´ll have problems...

(in reply to SenseiTG)
       Post #: 7

RE: Draganflyer IV replacement parts - 9/21/2004 1:40:08 AM   
Pipefish



Posts: 194
Joined: 1/23/2004
From: CuritibaParanᬠBRAZIL
Status: offline 		Besides, if money is not the problem, what about you to try the Intellicopter?

Just in time. It hovers with no compensations made by the pilot:

http://ovirc.free.fr/Tribelle.php

(in reply to Pipefish)
       Post #: 8

RE: Draganflyer IV replacement parts - 9/21/2004 1:20:03 PM   
SenseiTG


 

Posts: 12
Joined: 9/1/2004
From: TrelleborgScania, SWEDEN
Status: offline 		Oh, so the pinion is shorter?
I thought the actual motor was shorter that's why I didn't understand why it would matter

Actually money is an issue, a big one too at that... was just asking because i'd like to know which the absolutely best motor money can buy that is suitable for the draganflyer is. And the same thing with the battery.

That three rotor thing was kind of cool but not as stylish as the draganflyer :P

(in reply to Pipefish)
       Post #: 9

RE: Draganflyer IV replacement parts - 9/21/2004 9:50:50 PM   
Pipefish



Posts: 194
Joined: 1/23/2004
From: CuritibaParanᬠBRAZIL
Status: offline 		You have to look for the INTELLICOPTER, not the Tribelle

(in reply to SenseiTG)
       Post #: 10

RE: Draganflyer IV replacement parts - 9/22/2004 6:19:01 AM   
SenseiTG


 

Posts: 12
Joined: 9/1/2004
From: TrelleborgScania, SWEDEN
Status: offline 		Ah yes, I found that a few seconds after posting.

It does look rather boring to fly though (videos) doesn't it?
Doesn't seem like it has the maneuverability of the DF which is still fun, but in a different way :P For example a stable enough craft could be piloted from the eyecam alone.

I'm in the progress of constructing a new mainboard for the DF that uses some different ideas on stabilization that if i'm correct should be able to hold the thing much more steady using a combination of accelerometers, gyros and new software. Hopefully the results will be somewhat like the intellicopter. Possibly it will turn out to be crap haha :P Will be a few months in the making though, since my economy is very limited right now.

(in reply to Pipefish)
       Post #: 11

RE: Draganflyer IV problems - 9/22/2004 7:50:34 AM   
Nyala


 

Posts: 28
Joined: 5/9/2004
From: Heitersheim, GERMANY
Status: offline 		Hi All

Funny about the shaft being shorter, I have checked the Graupner Speed 300 7.2V that I got here in Europe and they are identicle to the DF motors. Shaft is 45mm. This is what you are looking for : http://www.mabuchi-motor.co.jp/cgi-bin/catalog/e_catalog.cgi?CAT_ID=rk_370sd

The original Nicads for the DF were 182 grams. The Li-Poly are the way to go, RCtoys recomends the 11.1V 1350 mA/h, I am using The 11.1V 2100 mA/h and 1800 mA/h the weight 132 g and 122 g respectively. Easy 15 - 18 minute flight times.

Pipefish, the Zoom/Zap/Shogun 400 is a realy nice e-heli, fly's like crazy, It has lots of power with the stock motor and I use the DF li-po's in it. It can go as high as you can see and it can do that inverted too. I use the DF to practice my nose-in hovering and other basic moves which I then do with the Zoom. The heli can fly in some wind up to about 15 km/h I have tried so far with no problems. The DF was unflyable in this wind. I have not tried the eyecam on it yet but I think it will be no problem at all. The best part is that I can still go to brushless if I need more power later.

The DF has been the key to flying conventional heli's. It was the best way to learn.

I think the heli was a nice next step towards doing some aerobatics which are impossible with the DF.

Work time now, see you all later.

Nyala

(in reply to SenseiTG)
       Post #: 12

RE: Draganflyer IV replacement parts - 9/22/2004 9:28:13 AM   
Nyala


 

Posts: 28
Joined: 5/9/2004
From: Heitersheim, GERMANY
Status: offline 		Hi again

Here is a pic of the original DF motor and the Graupner speed 300 7.2V. I think its the same motor.

Its definitely the cheaper way to go

Attachments
Click to see fullsize image.
Click for fullsize 		Click to see fullsize image.
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(in reply to SenseiTG)
       Post #: 13

RE: Draganflyer IV replacement parts - 9/22/2004 5:04:35 PM   
Pipefish



Posts: 194
Joined: 1/23/2004
From: CuritibaParanᬠBRAZIL
Status: offline 		Interestig, check out these pics:

the one with pinion is the Mabuchi 370 SD 7,2V that I´ve bought from ACW. The other is the original DF Motor.

Attachments
Click to see fullsize image.
Click for fullsize 		Click to see fullsize image.
Click for fullsize

(in reply to Nyala)
       Post #: 14

RE: Draganflyer IV problems - 9/22/2004 7:30:33 PM   
Nyala


 

Posts: 28
Joined: 5/9/2004
From: Heitersheim, GERMANY
Status: offline