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Marketing and Pylon Racing - 8/6/2002 7:12:25 AM   
matchlessaero



Posts: 1288
Joined: 1/6/2002
From: Cordova, TN, USA
Status: offline 		Ok, go easy on me. I am not an NMPRA member, so I am unsure if they have done this already, but here is an idea I think we should pirate from another form of racing.......

I race a 73 TR6 in Sports Car Club of America Autocrosses. Autocrosses are the entry level/beginners event in the nation's largest amateur auto racing club. The SCCA works like crazy to get new blood in.

The idea that I think applies to our sport is that of Marketing to get new blood. The local SCCA club has marketing materials created to inform and enthuse the locals. They hand them out whenever they can. They also provide "ride-a-longs" at local events for a couple of dollars. Finally, at most events, you will find locals that are willing to ride along with you and instruct you in your driving.

*Don's site (it is a great marketing tool) provides good stuff to help a racer get started, but what about some real basic information like: Getting Started Checklist (for the pilot and for a club that wants to host a race), Videos of each section of the race (start, turns, calling, flagmen, landing), instructions on how to properly do a tech, maybe printable flyers that you can hand out to club members to answer some of these basic questions and pique their interest (I think this list could go on and on, but you get the idea)

*At most clubs I have raced with, there have always been great people that were willing to help, but what if before or after the races, some of the racers went to the line with their interested sport flying buddies, and helped them 'learn the course' to give them the feel. (at the two races I have gone to in the last year, I have done this, and I think it works.....) 'Doing' provides a better understanding than listening or reading about something.

Maybe some of the rest of you have some similar ideas or some better ones. Lets hear them........

_____________________________

Go fast turn left-----3D is life-----Fly S.M.A.L.L. I'm having an RC identity crisis!!!!!!!!!
       Post #: 1

Marketing and Pylon Racing - 8/6/2002 8:07:34 AM   
PylonWorld



Posts: 1346
Joined: 12/29/2001
From: Monroe, NC, USA
Status: offline 		Matchless,

My Getting Started sections were intended to go into the details you are talking about and I've tried to spread the word that I will publish articles on PylonWorld.com. I can only do so much and some of the Getting Started articles that I started on still need to "get finished". But I will publish anything pylon related as long as I don't have a problem with the content. And I don't mean a difference of opinion. I welcome differences of opinion, because opinions are formed by experience.

I absolutely agree that a big marketing effort needs to be made. One of the things I started and have talked to some people and potential sponsors about is a sponsored 424 series. There are some issues to be dealt with, though. Some feel that the speed of 424 is too high for newcomers. Some feel that the local and regional variants of 424 are a problem. APRA and all of the groups that restrict the airframe with good intent, also make the selling of the sponsored series more difficult. The locking out of major engine manufacturers by some groups is a problem. Let me give some people a hint: Thunder Tiger is a second tier product. The top tier engine manufacturers need to be in the game.

Most people seem to agree that "competition for attention" is at an all time high. I personally believe that a lot of racers can come out of the park and backyard flyer ranks because people tend to fly around themselves with the smaller planes. I also see the possibility for cross-over with the combat crowd because they are used to tearing up planes and flying in close proximity to other planes. One of the reasons I developed the Q2 and Q3 classes for the locals is that many who were giving Combat a try already had the engines they needed for Q2/Q3.

_____________________________

Don Stegall
RCPRO Chairman of the Board

(in reply to matchlessaero)
       Post #: 2

UTT OHH! - 8/13/2002 11:23:27 PM   
Bill Vargas



Posts: 1572
Joined: 1/6/2002
From: Team Coldies, CA, USA
Status: offline 		>>> I absolutely agree that a big marketing effort needs to be made. One of the things I started and have talked to some people and potential sponsors about is a sponsored 424 series. There are some issues to be dealt with, though. Some feel that the speed of 424 is too high for newcomers. Some feel that the local and regional variants of 424 are a problem. APRA and all of the groups that restrict the airframe with good intent, also make the selling of the sponsored series more difficult. The locking out of major engine manufacturers by some groups is a problem. Let me give some people a hint: Thunder Tiger is a second tier product. The top tier engine manufacturers need to be in the game. <<<

What are you trying to say? What issues?

I have to disagree,,, TT Pro just left everyone else behind in the dust and you get more Bang for your buck using TT Pro!

TT Pro is way in the lead on this one

BV

_____________________________

If it ain't leaking oil, then something's wrong,,, USMC, RETIRED!

(in reply to matchlessaero)
       Post #: 3

Marketing and Pylon Racing - 8/13/2002 11:43:31 PM   
PylonWorld



Posts: 1346
Joined: 12/29/2001
From: Monroe, NC, USA
Status: offline 		Re-read the quote. The issues are part of the paragraph.

Do you have a vested interest in Thunder Tiger or something?

The only reason the TT Pro 40 is dominate in APRA is that it happens to be the strongest engine on the list. The O.S. 40 FX is a stronger and better engine than the TT and it only costs $110, and I've seen it as low as $100.

The O.S. 40 FX can easily turn a 9x6 over the 16,500 limit, though.

An O.S. 32 SX can turn a 9x6 right at 16,500 and they cost about $125. They are tough as nails and will last much better and longer than most engines.

Just a few months ago you were arguing for APRA to test and allow the MDS and other engines. Your current comments don't match your previous statements. Did you change your mind, or something?

_____________________________

Don Stegall
RCPRO Chairman of the Board

(in reply to matchlessaero)
       Post #: 4

Thunder Tiger is a second tier product ???? - 8/13/2002 11:49:59 PM   
vector-RCU


 

Posts: 69
Joined: 1/17/2002
From: Melville, NY,
Status: offline 		Hello,
To this point I have tried to keep my mouth shut, but this time I just have to say my piece. Thunder Tiger is NOT " a second tier product" They have been incredibly responsive to any problems that we have had. The bearings were upgraded, they improved the carb and have gone way beyond any other manufacturers in backing the engines.
I don't know if you have really dealt with Thunder Tiger on a service basis, but we have sent in basket case engines only to get back news ones with only the smallest charge. Try that with Great Planes. They will hit you for a new piston and liner quicker than you can bat an eye. Yes the OS may be a more POLISHED engine out of the box, but lets see how many of them hold up to NEWCOMERS abusing them. Remember 424 is an entry level event, the engines will get abused. As far as sponsors go, I used to drum up over $2500 worth of stuff for our annual awards banquet. Some of the smallest suppliers gave the best donations. Just mention the words "FREE ADVERTISING" and always send out thank you letters.


Lewis

(in reply to matchlessaero)
       Post #: 5

Marketing and Pylon Racing - 8/14/2002 12:06:42 AM   
PylonWorld



Posts: 1346
Joined: 12/29/2001
From: Monroe, NC, USA
Status: offline 		Lewis,

Thanks for commenting. I wish everyone would say what's really on their mind.

I'm not saying that other engines should be let in because the TT Pro 40 is an inferior product. I'm saying that other manufacturers should be allowed into the game because there is a bigger "FREE ADVERTISING" pool then. And competition for "FREE ADVERTISING" makes it easier to obtain sponsorships.

You may be correct that Thunder Tiger service is very good. However, several times this year, I've gone to try to buy TT Pro 40's at online sites, in stores, and called the advertisers in the magazines, only to be told "Sorry we don't have any, and we're not sure when we will". I've heard they were moving, but that is no excuse.

You can go into almost any hobby shop and find OS 40 FX or MDS 40 engines because Horizon Hobby and Hobbico are the top tier manufacturers and distributors. Global and Ace R/C are way below the top two in sales.

Maybe you have a point about the need for "FREE ADVERTISING", but engine choice is like color choice. Everyone has likes and dislikes.

_____________________________

Don Stegall
RCPRO Chairman of the Board

(in reply to matchlessaero)
       Post #: 6

Mind Change - 8/14/2002 12:14:25 AM   
Bill Vargas



Posts: 1572
Joined: 1/6/2002
From: Team Coldies, CA, USA
Status: offline 		Just a few months ago you were arguing for APRA to test and allow the MDS and other engines. Your current comments don't match your previous statements. Did you change your mind, or something? [/QUOTE]

Yup, More like last year, almost 2 now,,, I was told them other engines had to many variables and was not in the best intrest of 424, so it got dropped.


BV

< Message edited by Bill Vargas -- Aug 13 2002 7:55PM >

_____________________________

If it ain't leaking oil, then something's wrong,,, USMC, RETIRED!

(in reply to matchlessaero)
       Post #: 7

Marketing and Pylon Racing - 8/14/2002 3:26:33 AM   
garys


 

Posts: 782
Joined: 1/31/2002
From: San Diego, CA, USA
Status: offline 		Don,
How much experience do you have with the MDS engines? At the Nats, a well known pilot told me he had purchased an MDS, and wouldn't take another for free, as the quality was rather poor. I can't really say I would recommend the engines based on what he told me. Horizon may be a great company, but I can't say the MDS is a great product.
If the OS's make more power that the TT's, as you say you do, why should the APRA allow them and make all the TT's obsolete and uncompetitive? Here in Phoenix I haven't heard of a serious shortage of TT's. Each time I've gone to our monthly races, there are usually one or two new ones on people's planes. The APRA rules were never intended to be national rules. While I would like to see a solid set of National 424 type rules, we are currently more concerned with our local participation and want to do what's best or our area. Making changes such as allowing OS FX's would only hurt our local racing.
Gary

(in reply to matchlessaero)
       Post #: 8

Marketing and Pylon Racing - 8/14/2002 8:09:04 AM   
PAINLESS


 

Posts: 360
Joined: 5/7/2002
From: Los Alamos, NM, USA
Status: offline 		There are many more companies to seek sponsorship and advertising dollars from than engine manufacturers.
What about radio, prop, glue and fuel manufactures? Get Futaba, JR, APC, ZAP and Wildcat on board and the engine guys will follow suit.

(in reply to matchlessaero)
       Post #: 9

Marketing and Pylon Racing - 8/14/2002 8:32:47 AM   
PylonWorld



Posts: 1346
Joined: 12/29/2001
From: Monroe, NC, USA
Status: offline 		[QUOTE]Originally posted by garys
Don,
How much experience do you have with the MDS engines? At the Nats, a well known pilot told me he had purchased an MDS, and wouldn't take another for free, as the quality was rather poor. I can't really say I would recommend the engines based on what he told me. Horizon may be a great company, but I can't say the MDS is a great product.

...
[/QUOTE]

Gary,

The early MDS engines were not very good. Horizon has gotten the quality problems straightened out. I've looked at the inside of the older ones and they were crappy ... the new ones (FS Pro Series) are quite decent. The engines on some dealer's shelves are still the old ones, and are not recommended, especially if they have the black head on them. I've been around old and new, and I'm going to get a 28 to test for Slow Quickie, because the new ones run well and seem to last.

I haven't tested an O.S. 40 FX myself ... yet. But I probably will soon. If anyone has one, please let us know what yours will turn an APC 9x6 at.

_____________________________

Don Stegall
RCPRO Chairman of the Board

(in reply to matchlessaero)
       Post #: 10

Marketing and Pylon Racing - 8/14/2002 10:48:30 AM   
Druce



Posts: 79
Joined: 1/6/2002
From: Edmonton, AB, CANADA
Status: offline 		I think you guys are making to much fuss over these so called "entry level" engines.
We have an eight weeks of club racing (every Monday night once a week) in the spring . I guess it's equal to your 424 class.

Anyways, back to the subject here .. we allow the TT 40's and the MDS 40 and also the GMS 40 and a bunch of other ones in that group. They are all around 1.2 hp and all around a $100,s or so, give or take $10 . We use APC 9X7 props and the altitude is around 2200 to 2300 feet above sea level.

Guys there all the same!!
I think you guys can't see the trees for the forest!!!

Let the rookies have there fun and you experienced guys stay in the pylons.
Wether you like it or not, it works

(in reply to matchlessaero)
       Post #: 11

Marketing and Pylon Racing - 8/14/2002 11:27:44 PM   
regis



Posts: 74
Joined: 1/7/2002
From: La Plata, MD,
Status: offline 		First; we have to differentiate between AMA 424 and APRA, NEPRO, SEMPRA etc. Local (regional) racing can and have specified an engine (NE PRO - KB 4011) or had a list (APRA). This has worked will for them. Several years ago, NMPRA did unify the the sport pylon rules. That effort is the current AMA 424 rules. That is why AMA 424 is - as has been pointed out - so similar to APRA rules. AMA can NOT be expected to restrict any engine manufacture. Effectively, AMA can't make a list. It can only do what it has done in an effort to keep it [COLOR=red]SLOW PYLON [/COLOR], ie. 16.5K rule. Before the current rules AMA required non-schnuerle side port Front intake only engines (in an effort to hold down the cost). Engine restrictions came about when K&B produced the first K&B 8065 schnuerles ('69-'70, specifically for pylon racing - F1). It was a limited run. They were not available in the hobby shops or from any of the wholesalers (much easier to get one now). [COLOR=green]K&B apparently subscribed to the theory that "....the experienced guys are supposed to win."[/COLOR] Thats when NMPRA (and AMA followed) with the 500 and available rule .
Bottom line . We already have unified 424 rules. It is called [COLOR=red]Sport Pylon [/COLOR] (AMA 424). An NMPRA team spent more than a year unifying them. If you have an AMA legal Sport Pylon plane you should be able to fly (enter it) in any 424 race in the US. Now if we just don't mess up by ignoring them.


_____________________________

Regis 0o

(in reply to matchlessaero)
       Post #: 12

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