PAMPA Politics

PAMPA Politics
View related threads: (in this forum | in all forums)

Logged in as Guest

Users viewing this topic: none

Printable Version

All Forums >> Radios, Batteries, Clubhouse and more >> Control Lines >> PAMPA Politics Page: [1]

Login

Message

<< Older Topic Newer Topic >>

PAMPA Politics - 9/24/2004 5:03:25 PM

tperry2054

Posts: 81
Joined: 11/6/2003
From: Norfolk, VA, USA
Status: offline

I very recently posted a message on the Stuka Stunt Forum that Mr. Neuman didn't see fit to leave on there. My message was not merely locked down like most of the others. It was deleted, twice.

I wonder if it will survive the light of day here?

Here's the Message followed by a public message by Mr. Neuman and my response:

Very early this morning I posted a message in this forum subject was Vice Presidential Statement. I don't know why it has disappeared. I am repeating it verbatim just as I posted it previously.

Second try:

Mr. Fancher,

I’ve just complete reading your campaign statement, for about the 30th time or so, still find it as depressing as when I first read it. For the first column and first paragraph it is fine, Your bonafides certainly appear to be in order, no argument there. I know of nothing, up ‘til now that would keep me from voting for you in any office PAMPA has to offer.

Starting with the second column, second paragraph the remainder of your statement has to be the most condescending, patronizing, mean spirited, insincere garbage it has ever been my displeasure to read. The reason I consider it insincere is that I don’t consider you a stupid person. I know I don’t buy what you’re attempting to sell.

My impression is Mr. Brodak will never fit in to your “good ol’e boys club” no matter how he conducts himself. I guess I could have said mutual admiration society, but some how good ol’e boys seems to fit a little better. We can’t let this Brodak feller tell us anointed ones what to do, Yea you tell ‘em Bubba, teach ‘em to screw with usuns.

The disagreement between Mr. Brodak and Mr. Tiahrt seems to be one of the bones of contention that are getting a lot of press. Why? Am I to understand that two supposedly grown men can’t work it out between them. It seems to me that if enough people keep picking at a scab it will never heal and mean time it can cause nothing but irritation and suffering.

Mr. Brodak didn’t call a meeting of the Executive Council? Shame on him! Wait a minute… did anyone ask him to? Communication is a two way street. Can anyone of the whiners or complainers honestly say they have tried to help Mr. Brodak and PAMPA with out demanding he “suck up” or bow to the PAMPA elite?

I didn’t vote for Mr. Brodak, I don’t even know him. I might not even like him if I did know him. I didn’t vote for him because I joined PAMPA after the last election. I understand he won by a large margin. Is that the real problem, one of the anointed didn’t win? Could it possibly be that it is one of the "my ball my rules" or I’m gonna take it and go home? Do you feel as some have said that PAMPA has been hijacked? Do you think that the constant nit picking will solve anything? I don’t.

Mr. Brodak signs off with “Your Friend in CL” and you can sincerely find fault with that? Good lord that is really petty.

If enough people think stunt and sport Control Liners should form separate organizations, why not get it out in the open and talk about it instead of just continuing to be rude to one another? This contentious, internecine bickering certainly isn’t doing sport, stunt or Control Line in general any good.

Tight Lines,

Tom Perry

LNeumann
Charter Member
6015 posts Sep-24-04, 10:12 AM (CDT)

"procedures"

Just another comment for all in general. In trying to cool a certain issue I locked down certain topics, and, yes, deleted a few others. I try to run fair and balanced. I try to allow a lot of lee way in topics and discussions. But I also set rules. And I also reserve the right to delete, and to do so without question.
In the past I have had several people resurrect topics that I deleted. I had to delete them again. There are times I will contact people when doing so in order to explain to them why I am doing so. But if I delete a topic, I have done so for a reason. If you have a question as to the reason, you can contact me direct. But you are a guest here. This is not a democracy. I reserve editorial rights. The lawyers will go after me, not you.

Leonard Neumann

Alert | IP Printer-friendly page | Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top

tperry2054
Member since Dec-23-03
284 posts Sep-24-04, 10:41 AM (CDT)

1. "RE: procedures"
In response to message #0

LAST EDITED ON Sep-24-04 AT 10:44 AM (CDT)

There goes the second post I've written to this forum on this subject. Where does one go for equal time? I suppose I could have written it and buried it in one of the other posts and it may have survived longer. I made it a separate post because I wanted it to be read. I wasn't looking for a consensus of opinion; I just wanted my opinion to be read. I insinuated nothing, and avoided the word "we". I wrote the message telling it like I see it. I get pretty tired of people giving their so-called opinion using the word "we". I wonder who the we represents? Is it the courtly we as used by monarchs, does the we mean me and my yes men and hangers on, does the we merely mean me and the frog in my pocket?
Like you said Leonard, your forum your rules. I can respect that and live with it, no choice really. I didn't really enjoy writing the message, and trust me I mulled it over for the last three days before posting it. I still believe it deserves a read. And before the deadline of the election. Not much chance of it now

I was sorry to see the lawyer cop-out there was nothing in the message that could not survive legal scrutiny.

Tom Perry

Note: edited to correct mis-spelling

Thanks for suffering through this.

Tight Lines,

Tom Perry

Post #: 1

RE: PAMPA Politics - 9/24/2004 9:01:05 PM

Hossfly

Posts: 3934
Joined: 12/3/2001
From: New Caney, TX, USA
Status: offline

quote:

I didn’t vote for Mr. Brodak, I don’t even know him. I might not even like him if I did know him. I didn’t vote for him because I joined PAMPA after the last election. I understand he won by a large margin. Is that the real problem, one of the anointed didn’t win? Could it possibly be that it is one of the "my ball my rules" or I’m gonna take it and go home? Do you feel as some have said that PAMPA has been hijacked? Do you think that the constant nit picking will solve anything? I don’t.

Mr. Perry:

While I am not familiar with the current PAMPA situation, I would like to say this:

I was a fairly decent CL competitor back in the '60s and early '70s so I am familiar with CL Stunt a bit. I joined PAMPA for a few years when it was first organized, then let it go. Also I was a member for several years up until 2 years ago when I again let it go.

You say that you don't know Mr. Brodak. Well neither do I face to face, however I definitely would consider it a real honor to be allowed to shake hands with the gentleman. Mr. Brodak has, in the past 10 years or so, done more for Control-Line model aviation than any 100 PAMPA members that I can think of. Mr. Brodak through his work with ALL of CL model aviation has brought to the new generation both CL and model products that all disciplines can benefit from. He does not follow the theory that only stunters have a right to walk in this world, but promotes all phases of CL modeling.

From your letter, I get the notion that you too are an OK guy. Maybe some day the both of us will get to fly with or at least meet John Brodak.

edited to reformat quote.

< Message edited by Hossfly -- 9/24/2004 9:02:37 PM >

_____________________________

H. Cain AMA L-93

T Roosevelt "..the man who really counts in the world is the doer, NOT the mere critic, the man who actually does the work, even if roughly and imperfectly, NOT the man who only talks or writes about how it ought to be done."

(in reply to tperry2054)

Post #: 2

RE: PAMPA Politics - 9/24/2004 11:45:12 PM

William Robison

Posts: 20269
Joined: 11/10/2002
From: Mary Esther, Florida, FL, USA
Status: offline

Tom:

I'm going to leave your post. In CL we are sort of an unwanted child in an RC dominated world, I debated moving this to the AMA forum, then decided since PAMPA is CL only, its interest was limited to CL fliers, and it would have better exposure here.

Unless someone higher in the RCU organization disagrees, I'll leave it up.

Please bear in mind that if Mr. Fancher, or other candidate, wants to express himself that also will be allowed.

Bill.

_____________________________

Real Airplanes have Two Engines
AMA 25139 - More than 40 years.

(in reply to Hossfly)

Post #: 3

RE: PAMPA Politics - 9/25/2004 12:54:37 AM

tperry2054

Posts: 81
Joined: 11/6/2003
From: Norfolk, VA, USA
Status: offline

Bill,

Thank you for that. I have no problem with Len over on SSW. I don't agree with his removing my message, but he has to do what he feels is best for his board. I have no problem with Ted Fancher or anyone else posting here either. Again not my board or my choice. I will say this though; I believe that his disingenuous blurb in the latest issue of stunt new was timed just right. He gets his message out and mine almost never gets to see the light of day. One of my main concerns is the younger people in Control line are buying into his BullCrap.

Tight Lines,

Tom

< Message edited by tperry2054 -- 9/25/2004 2:00:16 AM >

(in reply to William Robison)

Post #: 4

RE: PAMPA Politics - 9/26/2004 3:48:18 PM

Fix-it

Posts: 64
Joined: 10/28/2002
From: orlando, FL, USA
Status: offline

Tom,

I agree with you on the following points - Ted's letter set a poor tone for a camaign statement, John B. has done great things for all of C/L, a small group of PAMPA has their shorts in a wad - mainly over John's treatment of Warren T.

I also think it will die out, tempest in a teapot in my opinion. If John runs for PAMPA pres again I will vote for him-unless he does something much worse than the endlessly belabored incident with Warren and the Executive Board meeting. An apology from a couple people to each other would go a long way here.

We just have to remember - this is supposed to be fun! I guess I can't relate to people on the NATS / World Champion level, I think the fun would go out of it if I had to work that hard, but to each their own.

_____________________________

Wheher a.k.a. Fix-it
If it's broke - Fix-it! If it's not broke, let me see it for a minute.

(in reply to tperry2054)

Post #: 5

RE: PAMPA Politics - 9/26/2004 4:55:31 PM

tperry2054

Posts: 81
Joined: 11/6/2003
From: Norfolk, VA, USA
Status: offline

Fix-it,

The problem as I see it if it wasn't a argument with Warren or some miscommunication over scheduling of a meeting it would be something else. The problem as I see it is John really does not fit in with the "chosen few". The problem is John Brodak was elected by the "unchosen many" and it really galls the few elitests. Understand that I don't begrudge the Experts their well deserved honors, I do not, however believe their exaulted positions give them the right to behave as they have toward an elected PAMPA officer, or anyone else for that matter. Does any one else see this as a good ol'e boy network run Amok?

Tight Lines,

Tom

(in reply to Fix-it)

Post #: 6

RE: PAMPA Politics - 9/27/2004 1:16:56 AM

highflyinguy

Posts: 90
Joined: 10/14/2002
From: Longmont, CO, USA
Status: offline

Pampa, whats a Pampa? Is that close to Tampa? I thought this was a controline forum. maybe this PAMPA should get it's own forum and let the people hash out thier personal problems there, where they should. I dont need no stinkin PAMPA.
Jerry Bohn

(in reply to tperry2054)

Post #: 7

RE: PAMPA Politics - 9/27/2004 1:25:13 AM

William Robison

Posts: 20269
Joined: 11/10/2002
From: Mary Esther, Florida, FL, USA
Status: offline

Jerry:

Very funny.

PAMPA? I think it's Precision Aerobatic Model Pilot's Association.

Just in case you really don't know, it is the special interest group for CLPA. And now you want to know what the heck is CLPA. Control Line Precision Aerobatics. U/C stunt, to you.

It does have a place in this forum.

Bill.

_____________________________

Real Airplanes have Two Engines
AMA 25139 - More than 40 years.

(in reply to highflyinguy)

Post #: 8

RE: PAMPA Politics - 9/27/2004 2:25:07 PM

highflyinguy

Posts: 90
Joined: 10/14/2002
From: Longmont, CO, USA
Status: offline

Bill, Sorry, I was trying to be funny. I have been a member of PAMPA for 6 years. I was just wondering why, other PAMPA members don't hash out their personal grips directly with the people they have problems with, instead of going on private forums.
I'm sure the communication lines are there in the PAMPA organization to remedy the problems thru proper channels.

(in reply to William Robison)

Post #: 9

RE: PAMPA Politics - 9/27/2004 3:05:32 PM

tperry2054

Posts: 81
Joined: 11/6/2003
From: Norfolk, VA, USA
Status: offline

Jerry,

I know you addressed your last response to Bill, but I'd like to answer it with a few questions. How sure are you about the communications? The article by Fancher was in stunt news, the votes for V.P. are counted at the end of September. Convenient isn't it that the earliest any reply of mine, in Stunt News would appear in two months. I don't really have the time and monetary resources to send each member a letter through the post. The PAMPA URL does not support a users forum. Other than through a forum like this, where else might I get my message out?

I don't have a personal grip (sic) with Mr. Fancher, as I indicated previously I find fault with his disingenuous statements in the Stunt News. Pardon me, but if this is a private forum, what is either one of us doing here? Did I offend you? Do you have a personal "grip" with me? Pardon me if I "peed in your wheaties" but let me assure you that I in no way intended to offend you personally.

Tight lines,

Tom Perry

(in reply to highflyinguy)

Post #: 10

RE: PAMPA Politics - 9/27/2004 3:09:55 PM

William Robison

Posts: 20269
Joined: 11/10/2002
From: Mary Esther, Florida, FL, USA
Status: offline

Jerry:

Total lack of perspiration re your post. I couldn't tell whether it was serious or ironic, I tried to cover it either way.

I've never been a PAMPA member, so I have no idea what communication channels might or might not be used.

Regardless, if Tom Perry wants to post notes on PAMPA here I see no reason why he should not be allowed to do so. Your comments are also welcome.

Bill.

_____________________________

Real Airplanes have Two Engines
AMA 25139 - More than 40 years.

(in reply to highflyinguy)

Post #: 11

RE: PAMPA Politics - 9/27/2004 3:57:12 PM

highflyinguy

Posts: 90
Joined: 10/14/2002
From: Longmont, CO, USA
Status: offline

Terry, You are absolutly correct. That is the reason I am not renewing my membership to PAMPA for 2005. I will monitor forums for members input. I hope people like you keep on keeping on and keep the information flowing about PAMPA. When PAMPA gets to the type of organization it was six years ago, perhaps I will concider rejoining. Good Luck.

(in reply to tperry2054)

Post #: 12

RE: PAMPA Politics - 9/29/2004 3:57:33 PM

mccoy40

Posts: 3
Joined: 11/18/2003
From: Phoenixville, PA, USA
Status: offline

HighflyingGuy,
That is actually what the Ted's and the others want you to do - leave. Do yourself a favor and get back at them by staying in and voting your opinion - There was a big hellabelew when John was runnig for President because some wanted someone who had been a past president to be voted back in. Both ran and John was the winner.

(in reply to highflyinguy)

Post #: 13

RE: PAMPA Politics - 9/29/2004 7:04:51 PM

tperry2054

Posts: 81
Joined: 11/6/2003
From: Norfolk, VA, USA
Status: offline

Jerry,

I agree with mccoy40. I'm not really as passionate about anything that has been rumored, proposed or thought out loud as one might think by reading my message on the VP candidate statement.

I believe some of the people active in PAMPA politics are suffering an acute case of "fear it's self". I am happy with the rules as they are now. This by no means should indicate that I am opposed to change. It's been my observation that if an organization stagnates for too long it tends to die. I believe that shouting down ideas before they have hardly seen the light of day is counter productive.

I've seen many discussions, where someone presents something new and untried, that has been shouted down by some responding; This is the way it has always been done, this is generally done this way, that'll never work, you don't know what you're talking about, etc. etc. etc. I know this turns me off and I would suggest many others also.

I looked at Ted Fancher's statement and could hardly believe what I was reading. I'm not the sharpest person in the world, and it insulted my intelligence. I don't believe Ted Fancher is stupid either, so I had to ask my self what is he really saying here? After several more days of mulling it over it still look pretty disingenuous to me. I think if something looks like bullcrap, and smells like bullcrap, and somebody is forcing it down my throat, I know its bullcrap with out tasting it thank you.

As has been pointed out before, the bylaws are pretty succinct; I don't think John Brodak needs a baby sitter to keep him in line.

I can't remember the source now so I will just paraphrase and hope whoever it was will not begrudge my using his example here. He compared the disagreement between John and Warren to a couple of schoolboys who had a difference of opinion and were going to have a fistfight after school to settle it. Meanwhile word of the fight had spread and all the fight fans gathered after school formed a circle around the pair and agitated for the fight to commence. Didn't matter that the pair had already shook hands and ended it, they just had to see the fight. (Sorry to the source who first presented it this way, I know I butchered your story, but it is a great example of what’s going on here.) I compare this to the "Gang of 14" who signed the letter appearing in Stunt News insisting that John Brodak apologize to Warren in writing. Shame on you Ted Fancher and Shame on the Gang of 14.

Jerry, don't let the ****s get you down. It is still a good News Letter/Magazine.

Tight Lines,

Tom

(in reply to mccoy40)

Post #: 14