RE: Cam For Aerobird Challenger On The Way (Many Plane Prep Questions)

RE: Cam For Aerobird Challenger On The Way (Many Plane Prep Questions)
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RE: Cam For Aerobird Challenger On The Way (Many Plane ... - 10/16/2004 5:49:44 PM

critterhunter

Posts: 2542
Joined: 9/24/2004
From: Brook Park, OH, USA
Status: offline

Yep, I also feel it's better for external plane parts to break away in some fashion instead of being rock solid. It helps to release energy and absorb the crash momentum. That's why I like using an extra wing rubberband peg to hold the styraphoam in place between the battery and the PC board. An average crash won't move it, but a real hard nose hit will cause one of the peg caps to pop and release energy to the side as the body bows outward. Keep in mind to check the pegs if you crash hard as I've already lost two or three. Darn Hobbyzone is making a fortune off me just in pegs. You need to use the longer peg shaft. I was thinking of putting a zip tie straight through this hole and cutting the head off a second zip tie to secure the other end. I know that won't move but then I'd be concerned that the body would flex inward as the battery tries to push back. Any thoughts?

I had done the zip tie engine mod that everybody uses but I also took this a step further. I removed the two screws on the back of the motor and took off that flimsy little metal oblong washer looking thing that is supposed to hold the motor to the plastic at the prop. I then took a heavy guitar pick that was strong yet flexible without cracking (there are many types out there) and drilled two holes in it for the two screws. The middle shaft hole needs to be bigger than the shaft, as it's going around a raised round area where the shaft enters the motor. Put the screws back on and snugged them up. Works great and keeps the back end of the plane body straight to prevent distortions.

Looking forward to tomorrow as we are going to cook out, drink beers, watch the Browns game outside on TV, and of course fly the planes. I'll be doing some fly overs of the woods with my camera where the one guy's plane might have landed. If it's near the top of a tree we should see it's orange color stick out, but with my luck all the trees will have orange leaves as they are changing around here right now.

I've been looking at that darn audio trace connection through the goop on the TX. I need to figure out how to clean it up enough to solder the wire back in place. Even if I clear a small access point I'm worried the goop will do bad things from the soldering iron. Don't want to make things worse. Don't know if I told you but the version of the regulator I bought was the 9V you listed. After a soldered it to the wires coming from the X-Port connector I tested the output on it before wiring it to the camera to be safe. It was putting out a perfect 9.05V. I went back and re-tested the old RCA harness that I cut off the camera and TX. Still reading 9 volts at both outputs to the TX and camera so I'm positive now that there wasn't a regulator hiding in there somewhere. The RX says "9-12V" on it and I'm using a car battery for it and my tv/vcr. I figure the higher the voltage the better it's reception. The back of the TX says either 8 or 9V, so that's right in line with the regulator. The camera doesn't have any voltage markings but I expect both it and the TX have an 8 to 12v power range. As Randall said he's run the same camera/TX on straight on 9.6V (and I think higher), so 9V should be a safe bet.

From all the threads the F27 Styrker looks like a real fun plane to fly. Either I'll impulse buy it in a week or two or wait until next spring. I should wait but I'm not real careful with my money. :')

(in reply to Troglotech)

Post #: 51

RE: Cam For Aerobird Challenger On The Way (Many Plane ... - 10/16/2004 6:07:38 PM

critterhunter

Posts: 2542
Joined: 9/24/2004
From: Brook Park, OH, USA
Status: offline

Forgot to ask, in the future after I'm confident with the current camera setup I might want to replace the CMOS camera with a CCD. I took a peak at the Panasonic camera on the Blackwidow site and see that it's only about as big as a quarter, so this should be a possible option unless these things are REAL heavy? Since I've already went through the trouble of buying the 9V regulator (Neward DID have the one you listed, by the way), do they offer CCD cameras in the 9V range or are most of the cheap ones 5V? Also, would this be a simple matter of wiring it up to the video/audio outputs going to the TX I have now or could there be other issues?

Oh....one quick question about lense focus. My camera has an "adjustable" focus on it in that the thing screws in and out. How should I set this sucker for best focus on far away objects...simply point it at something far away and turn it until things look best?

(in reply to critterhunter)

Post #: 52

RE: Cam For Aerobird Challenger On The Way (Many Plane ... - 10/16/2004 7:34:09 PM

randall1959

Posts: 863
Joined: 8/29/2004
From: Bolckow, MO, USA
Status: offline

That's the way you do it Critter. To conserve weight go with a CCD board camera and stay away from bullet cams and cams that have enclosures. They help contain damage but they also add extra weight. You might want to check out www.supercircuits.com for a camera also.

http://www.supercircuits.com/STORE/prodinfo.asp?number=PC303XP&variation=&aitem=1&mitem=21

< Message edited by randall1959 -- 10/16/2004 7:36:21 PM >

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(in reply to critterhunter)

Post #: 53

RE: Cam For Aerobird Challenger On The Way (Many Plane ... - 10/17/2004 1:21:30 AM

Troglotech

Posts: 165
Joined: 9/8/2004
From: WhitehillHants, UNITED KINGDOM
Status: offline

I recommend the Panasonic cameras (while you can still get them), or the replacement (Videology 20K14), the best place I know in the US (and I have regularly bought cameras from them even from the UK) is Rock 2000:

http://www.rock2000.com/showproducts.php?Category=4

They do the Videology cameras. Most of these cameras expect 5V, for this you can utilise your 7805 regulator! Both the Panasonic and the Videology cameras are very small and you can buy them with all sorts of lenses, although I would recommend something like an F2.0 4mm or something close. Focusing lenses is best done with a reasonable amount of light, outside. Screw the lens IN to focus further away and OUT to focus near. With pin-hole lenses find the point when you screw the lens in where everything starts to go out of focus and then bring it back until everything is sharp again (the point of infinity focus).

I've had a look at the F27 as well, I don't think it would make a good camera plane though, with the camera on top you are going to get mostly sky, great to start with but it will get a bit boring! Sounds like a great plane to fly though from all the posts I've seen here. I hope it goes well tomorrow and look forward to seeing the results....Tim....

(in reply to randall1959)

Post #: 54

RE: Cam For Aerobird Challenger On The Way (Many Plane ... - 10/18/2004 3:35:32 PM

critterhunter

Posts: 2542
Joined: 9/24/2004
From: Brook Park, OH, USA
Status: offline

Well, once again the camera gods have prevented me from using the camera. Took it out to my buddies place to fly. I first took a test flight without the camera mounted on the plane to make sure she was flying well. Everything was fine, so time to strap on the camera. Launched the plane and all was well for about thirty yards, then suddenly the plane looses power and glids to the ground. Checked my battery in the plane and I had just put brand new batteries in the transmitter before the trip so that wasn't the problem. Launch her again and she does the same thing, loosing power and gliding in when it gets about thirty yards away. Hmmmm....maybe these "new" batteries in the transmitter are acting up. I take the camera off the plane and fly it again with no range problems. Great...., looks like the camera TX is interfering with the RX on the plane. Well, I did have the camera TX mounted on the right side of the plane, where as last week when I got it high and folded a wing (pre-voltage regulator flight) I didn't have any range problem. On that flight I had the TX on the left side of the plane. OK, I thought I'd just move the TX to the left side with some more velcro. Still had the same range problem with the plane shutting down right after launch. I have read a thread before from somebody using a Challenger in which he had the same problem and had to re-locate the TX somewhere on the plane. Looks like I'll have to try various mounting positions and on-the-ground range tests to find what I need. Any input or thoughts on this would be welcome. Just think it's funny that the plane still cut out on the left side where I didn't experience a problem last week. Maybe the cheap Rayovac batteries I bought for the plane's TX are producing a poor signal?

(in reply to Troglotech)

Post #: 55

RE: Cam For Aerobird Challenger On The Way (Many Plane ... - 10/18/2004 8:56:42 PM

Troglotech

Posts: 165
Joined: 9/8/2004
From: WhitehillHants, UNITED KINGDOM
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If you had no range problems before then it is possible that the DC to DC converter is either in oscillation or is producing some noise that is affecting the range.....sounds like a bit of a long shot though. My Challenger has a similar DC to DC converter, plane is Channel 6 and camera is 2.4GHz Channel 3, I don't suffer from range problems. To rule out noise issues from the converter it is worth putting the capacitor you bought previously across the X-Port (the input to the DC to DC converter), this should stop noise going back the other way (into the Challengers RX). It is certainly worth doing some range tests with different set-ups.

For instance, retract the TX aerial, set the throttle partially on and walk away from the TX (holding the plane obviously) with the camera setup as it was yesterday, find the point where reception is lost (the motor stops turning)....then remove the plug from the X-Port and see if that starts the motor going again. If this is the case (and it is quite possible that the camera will affect the range very slightly) then get power for the DC to DC converter from a 9V battery instead, this will give a clue as to if the noise from the DC to DC converter is getting back into the X-Port. With the standard setup of the video equipment plugged into the X-Port try moving the video TX around and see if you get control back in different positions.....try moving the other parts of the video setup around like the camera and the DC to DC converter. It is only through experiments like this that you will be able to find the cause of the problem....Tim.....

(in reply to critterhunter)

Post #: 56

RE: Cam For Aerobird Challenger On The Way (Many Plane ... - 10/18/2004 11:26:15 PM

critterhunter

Posts: 2542
Joined: 9/24/2004
From: Brook Park, OH, USA
Status: offline

Good troubleshooting tips, Troglotech. I'll try them and see. Yes, since the flight last week had the TX on the left side of the plane with no range problems the only difference would be the voltage regulator. However, that doesn't rule out for sure that it isn't the TX for the camera. I plan to walk away with the plane until the plane shuts off, then move the TX around to see if I re-gain control. I'll have to be careful with this test as the plane controller has a safety engine shutoff, in that the motor will not spin if the controller is turned on with the throttle already opened. So, if the plane TX is being totaly blocked at one point the plane might think the controller has been shutoff, and won't work again until the throttle is reset. Maybe it works that way, maybe not. Perhaps I'll just use a rubberband to hold the joystick in a downward position, then if I see the tail flaps level out I'll know it's lost transmision. Somewhere on this website I saw reference to a Challenger user who had to mount the TX on the nose (I think) or he would get similar problems. I'm going to attempt to contact him for input. The capacitor across (before) the voltage regulator is also a good idea to try. Will report back when I have further info. Oh, so 2.4ghz is in the channel 3 frequency range? Hmmm...what channel would 1.2ghz be? My plane is either channel 2 or 3, can't remember.

< Message edited by critterhunter -- 10/18/2004 11:28:31 PM >

(in reply to Troglotech)

Post #: 57

RE: Cam For Aerobird Challenger On The Way (Many Plane ... - 10/19/2004 5:38:31 AM

pkrska

Posts: 30
Joined: 11/6/2003
From: Toronto, ON, CANADA
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: critterhunter said: .......... I'm considering purchase of the ready to fly Stryker F27.

F27 Stryker AirCam and Videos

Recommend it to anyone wanting a fun plane to fly. Oh and it hauls a camera up OK too. Although I think that too much epoxy, using heavy niMH batteries and after a lot of crashes, this plane is ready to be upgraded. I had to replace my internals to support my own 4 channel radio. Now if I can only afford those lipolys and their charger!!! Much more expensive here in Toronto, Ontario Canada!

This plane flies pretty good in the wind.

< Message edited by pkrska -- 10/23/2004 7:10:22 AM >

(in reply to critterhunter)

Post #: 58

RE: Cam For Aerobird Challenger On The Way (Many Plane ... - 10/19/2004 9:42:49 PM

critterhunter

Posts: 2542
Joined: 9/24/2004
From: Brook Park, OH, USA
Status: offline

RE: F27. Yes, it will for sure be my next plane purchase. It will come out on the days that I want extreme speed and more stunt ability. Well, if the body is getting heavy from glue then a new body can be had for under $20. Not bad at all. I also hear total new plane electronics is only something like $26. Right in line with cheap replacement parts for other Parkzone (Hobbyzone) airplanes. I just wish I could buy a new body for the Challenger without electronics, as you are stuck purchasing it with new electronics for $45...which isn't bad at all anyway. I see the Extreme body can be bought without electronics for under $20. I don't want to make the switch to standard controllers or electronics as that requires a major investment, so I'm quite happy with the cheap non-standard stuff Hobbyzone crams into their planes. By the way, I saw a discussion thread on this webesite about the F27 where guys were wanting more flight time. The F27 comes standard with the same "pro" battery pack (8.4v 900ma) and connector that you can buy for the Challenger (The stock Challenger pack is a 7.2v 900ma). There are several aftermarket batteries from Venom and a few others that are the same size and weight as the 8.4v 900ma, yet provide an 1100ma rating. I purchased one of the Venoms and it gives a few minutes extra time at full throttle. Refer to the E Power Sources forum for comparison test times I did on these batteries.

(in reply to pkrska)

Post #: 59

RE: Cam For Aerobird Challenger On The Way (Many Plane ... - 10/22/2004 5:59:17 PM

critterhunter

Posts: 2542
Joined: 9/24/2004
From: Brook Park, OH, USA
Status: offline

Troglotech, did some tests today and the results are interesting. I'll try to keep it short and to the point...

Stuck a rubberband on the plane's controller joystick to put flaps in downward position. Plugged the camera/tx/regulator combo into the X-port. Walked about thirty yards away and lost contact with the controller (flaps returned to level position). Started moving tx and camera into various positions on the plane. No help, sometimes the engine would come on and off (even though I had it off) and the flaps would loose control off and on depending on where the TX and camera was placed. I could find no happy medium and the random engine fires really bothered me. Back to the soldering room...

Quickly hacked one of the 220uf 16v capacitors (paying attention to polarity) across the power lines between the Xport and the regulator. Went outside and tried the range test again. Same results as above. Back inside to tinker some more...

Cut off the voltage regulator and hacked on a 9V battery as the camera power source, just to see if it was the camera TX transmission that was blocking the plane RX or something other. Went outside for another range test. No loss of control of the plane even at great distance. Also tried putting the camera TX in various spots on the plane to see if I could get the interference to come back. No loss of plane control was experienced. Great...atleast the camera TX doesn't appear to be the cause. Back in the house for more...

Re-attached the X-Port plug with NO voltage regulator but this time I used the simple noise filter circuit you described prior in this thread (diode and capacitor). Went back outside and experienced NO loss of plane control. Looking better, now to test this setup for engine noise with the video. The video remains stable all the way up until about half throttle. Beyond that I get video interference (not as bad as it was without anything buffering the Xport/cam connection, but with the regulator I had no engine video interference). While still testing this quick hack job (IE: bear wires soldered together) I notice a soft small glow out of the corner of my eye. Yikes, one of the diode/capacitor tangle leads was touching the outside metal shell of the camera TX, causing a glowing short! Power it all down, re-position my wires, and then turn it back on to make sure I didn't fry something. Camera was working.

So, what I've found: Camera/TX without regulator or diode/cap. buffering Xport produces useless video with any engine use. Camera/TX with regulator only produces perfect video at all engine speeds, but plane TX gets blocked. Camera/TX with regulator and a capacitor does not fix the range problem. Camera/TX with a 9V battery causes no range problems and probably good video (didn't test it). Camera/TX with diode/capacitor appears not to have range problems but produces bad video at above half engine speed.

The next logical step in my mind would be to use the diode WITH the regulator, placed between the X-Port and the regulator on the + wire? Would this be the same rated diode used above in the noise filter circuit? Also, should the capacitor also be used before the regulator or just the diode with the regulator and no capacitor? If the diode/regulator combo works (waiting on your feedback to try it) then it would look as though the diode is preventing some kind of backflow to the X-Port that is messing up the plane's RX range? Can you explain you're best guess on whats going on?

If worse comes to worse and some combination of the above doesn't solve my two range/video quality problems then I have two options: Run the cam/tx off the diode/cap setup (no regulator) and just live with lack of video above half engine throttle. Or, I could bite the bullet and run the cam/tx off a 9V battery. This is my least favored option as a 9V adds weight. There might be one more option. I thought I read somewhere that you can use a rechargable (or is it just a non-rechargable lithium?) battery to power the camera. It was somewhere in one of these threads, relating to it providing more stable video and/or run time and/or weight. Can't remember but will look for the reference.

< Message edited by critterhunter -- 10/22/2004 6:27:35 PM >

(in reply to critterhunter)

Post #: 60

RE: Cam For Aerobird Challenger On The Way (Many Plane ... - 10/22/2004 7:06:51 PM

randall1959

Posts: 863
Joined: 8/29/2004
From: Bolckow, MO, USA
Status: offline

radio shack sells a rechargable 9 volt battery that has a pretty good ma rating.....

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(in reply to critterhunter)

Post #: 61

RE: Cam For Aerobird Challenger On The Way (Many Plane ... - 10/23/2004 4:20:51 PM

Troglotech

Posts: 165
Joined: 9/8/2004
From: WhitehillHants, UNITED KINGDOM
Status: offline

Hello Critterhunter....you're not having much luck are you! There are a few possibilities to why the DC to DC converter affects the range....a) it's a radio transmitter ....b) it's turning the wires into aerials ...c) the electrical noise of the DC to DC converter is getting back into the Challengers RX.

I would start by finding out which one of these is causing the trouble. To do this I would disconnect the X-Port connection and tweak out the crimps from the Molex connector (a scalpel works well by pressing down on the tabs through the side holes of the connector). I would then repeat the range test but would run the camera system from a 9V battery instead of the X-Port. If this fails to make any difference then 'c' does not hold true. If the range increases then noise is getting back into the X-Port and you will need an HF filter of some description. If the DC to DC converter does emit RF then we can do little more than wrap the thing in foil. If the DC to DC converter itself is not radiating then it is possible that the wiring is acting as an aerial. To stop this happening a pair of capacitors will be needed, a value of 100p will be acceptable, the big electrolytics have much too high an ESR to make any difference at RF which is why you require a ceramic, low value type. I will look up a suitable one on Mouser when I get back on a PC that has those facilities.

You could try increasing the capacitance on the simple diode-capacitor circuit....it may well work at higher throttle settings.....must go...will post later.....Tim....

EDIT: I'll finish off this post tomorrow morning critterhunter when I'm back on a PC that has some sense!

Right, tomorrow is today. Mouser stock some suitable capacitors for 30 cents: 581-MD015C222K, I chose a larger value just in case the lower frequencies were affecting the RX. Stick one of these across the input of the DC to DC converter and one across the output (they are not polarised so they can go either way around). This should virtually eliminate any RF that the converter is producing. The capacitors must be mounted right on the DC to DC converter to be of any use. This will reduce any RF emmisions from the wiring (which is the most likely cause of lack of range) and should hopefully do the trick. If the DC to DC converter itself is radiating RF (which they always do to some extent but it should not be enough to affect RX range) then you will have to sheild it by wrapping it in foil.

Please let me know what you decide to do and how you get on.....Tim....

< Message edited by Troglotech -- 10/25/2004 8:54:39 AM >

(in reply to randall1959)