RE: Cam For Aerobird Challenger On The Way (Many Plane Prep Questions)  
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RE: Cam For Aerobird Challenger On The Way (Many Plane ... - 10/29/2004 12:58:54 AM   
Troglotech



Posts: 165
Joined: 9/8/2004
From: WhitehillHants, UNITED KINGDOM
Status: offline 		That part will do fine, just checked the data sheet and it meets all requirements....I did post the part number for the 2n2 (581-MD015C222K), ages ago in post #62 I think!

(in reply to critterhunter)
       Post #: 76

RE: Cam For Aerobird Challenger On The Way (Many Plane ... - 10/29/2004 9:47:27 PM   
critterhunter



Posts: 2542
Joined: 9/24/2004
From: Brook Park, OH, USA
Status: offline 		Yes you did. Actually, I was sitting at home doing the math and realized that 2200pfd equals the 2n2 value. I called them up this morning and ordered 6 inductors, 3 2200uf 16V electrolytic caps, and 6 2200 pico farad ceramic caps. Not sure if it's the same part # you just gave but I told the guy I needed ceramic axial lead (non-surface mount) types. These are rated to handle 50V DC. I believe the "percentage" rating was 20% if that matters. Did I screw up or does this sound OK? Even though I only need 2 inductors and caps I figured I'd order more in case a friend wants one built for him, or to replace potential crash damage. If this works I won't need to use the simple 2200uf/diode circuit, but I figured again that there might be some future need with another cam/RC project. By the way, how heat sensitive are those inductors/caps? I'm halfway decent with solder but since you said to keep them close to the regulator I won't be using much component wire lead. Do they have to be kept REAL close, as in cut off as much lead as possible, or just in general within an inch or so of the regulator? Parts should arrive Monday or Tuesday and I'll have more to report when fitted.

(in reply to Troglotech)
       Post #: 77

RE: Cam For Aerobird Challenger On The Way (Many Plane ... - 10/30/2004 2:37:16 PM   
critterhunter



Posts: 2542
Joined: 9/24/2004
From: Brook Park, OH, USA
Status: offline 		Here's the capacitors I bought: 140-50P5-22K 50V, Y5P, 2200pfd, 10%, Xicon Ceramic Disc.

(in reply to critterhunter)
       Post #: 78

RE: Cam For Aerobird Challenger On The Way (Many Plane ... - 11/1/2004 8:10:58 AM   
Troglotech



Posts: 165
Joined: 9/8/2004
From: WhitehillHants, UNITED KINGDOM
Status: offline 		Sorry I took so long to reply.....been out flying this weekend.....this has been the first break in the weather for quite a few days now so I took advantage of it. The bits you have ordered are fine....they will do nicely. Keep the parts close but don't go mad trying to shorten all the legs too much, within an inch will be fine.

I tried flying from another site this weekend, somewhere where I used to blap around on a motorbike when I was a teenager, the site belongs to the Army and I was pleased to see there were remnants of the old football field still in existence (although it was a lot smaller than I remember). I got a good few flights in with a little while spent retrieving the Challenger from a tree. The next day I went back and was surprised to see a couple of people flying a helicopter and a Tiger Moth. Apparently the site is hired by the Border Model Aircraft Club but they were very welcoming and friendly. They had finished for the day as the Tiger had engine problems and the Helicopter had just crashed! One of the pilots was pleased to see I had the camera fitted as he does the same (he ordered all his stuff from BlackWidowAV). They have a web site worth checking (http://www.bordermac.org.uk) as they have some aerial video shot at Bramshot (where I flew this weekend). He uses a 100mW system sporting a Panasonic GP CX161 although the video shown on their site suffers from being shot out of focus it does show the local countryside and some excellent footage of the first flight of a bi-plane.

Stopped flying on the second day due to blustery conditions returning......during the last flight the blustery conditions plucked the Challenger from the air and I ended up with it stuck into the soft ground up to the top of the canopy! Nothing broken though....those things are tough!

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       Post #: 79

RE: Cam For Aerobird Challenger On The Way (Many Plane ... - 11/1/2004 2:29:18 PM   
critterhunter



Posts: 2542
Joined: 9/24/2004
From: Brook Park, OH, USA
Status: offline 		Thanks for the input on the components. Haven't done anything as I'm waiting to try the chokes/caps circuit on the regulator. Didn't bother testing the simple cap/diode noise circuit 'cuz if I can get the regulator working with the plane that's going to be the best setup.

Sorry about the crash but glad to hear the Challenger made it out OK. I know, they are tough little birds. I haven't been flying either due to wind conditions and other obligations.

However, a couple of days ago I did go with my friend to look for his brand new replacement Challenger (the guy who lost it a week or so ago). Where he was flying it there was a field about 100 yards across. Beyond this field was some woods, and then beyond that was an even larger dirt field with woods around it. The plane (as it was getting away from him) looked to be over the larger field in the back. He could hardly see the plane when he gave up, and saw it dive to the right as it went down.

Based on this data we walked straight back there past the larger field and believe it is in the woods somewhere along it's back parameter. Did some walking in the woods and couldn't spy it on the ground or in a tree, even with most of the leaves being gone. These woods don't have too many trees, but are rather more scrub brush towards ground level with not much tree canopy.

For this reason I think using my plane with the camera would have a good chance of spotting it, as the ground is mostly brown now and his plane is orange wings and all. I would think it would stick out like a sore thumb in these conditions. Trying to walk the woods isn't too much help as much of it is thick briar patches about six feet high, limiting access and ability to see.

One other idea I want to try with him is for him to stand where he was flying the plane. I'll then go to the back field and fly my plane while talking with him on a cell phone. He can then tell me where to put the plane height and distance to make it appear about where his was in the sky. This should give us a good idea of what general area to conduct are search in.

Have you made any more attempts to find the Commander. Anyway, back with more when I have something to report on the camera.

(in reply to Troglotech)
       Post #: 80

RE: Cam For Aerobird Challenger On The Way (Many Plane ... - 11/1/2004 9:54:15 PM   
Troglotech



Posts: 165
Joined: 9/8/2004
From: WhitehillHants, UNITED KINGDOM
Status: offline 		No, I haven't looked for the Commander recently, I would have thought the pikeys would have got it by now. I've just been enjoying flying at new places...getting reasonably good at landing in smaller places now. After seeing another Forum member ...stevenh...(or something, please excuse me for not remembering) flying the Extreme from a car park I thought I'd better wise up and try harder!

(in reply to critterhunter)
       Post #: 81

RE: Cam For Aerobird Challenger On The Way (Many Plane ... - 11/7/2004 6:56:29 PM   
critterhunter



Posts: 2542
Joined: 9/24/2004
From: Brook Park, OH, USA
Status: offline 		Well, here's the update on the Challenger camera project...I installed the two chokes and caps between the Xport and the regulator as detailed in your schematic. Tested the video first and everything was fine. Took the plane outside to do a range test. Once again I lost contact with the plane and experienced falsing at about 80 to 90 yards. It appears whatever noise is being fed back through the Xport was not stopped by the chokes/caps.

I then tried the simple 2200uf cap/diode noise circuit (no regulator) feeding off the Xport. The plane had no range problems with this setup. I then took it inside to see if the video remained good while at full throttle. It remained in good shape with maybe slight noise lines at full throttle but really no major problems. Great, I thought that at least I have something that will maintain good video and no range problems.

Today I took the plane out for a test flight. It was REAL windy but I couldn't wait to try this camera out. I mounted the camera RX on a 5 foot tall plastic pole. The video was good until the plane reach about two or three stories in height. It then went to fuzz and I never got the video back even with the engine off. I figured maybe I had to tune the camera RX knob and while I was playing with that for a few seconds the wind decided to turn my plane into a nose dive from way up. The camera mount blew apart and I found the camera about ten feet away from the plane. Plugged it back in and was glad to see that it still works fine. However, I folded a tail on the crash and so once again I've been defeated.

When I was doing my engine tests with this simple filter in the house with the engine at full throttle after a few minutes the video would go unstable. Shutting down the engine would correct this, and I could once again run the engine at full throttle with no video trouble for a while. Not sure but I think the drop in voltage with a full throttle was causing this as it didn't look like static but rather signal drift. However, I ran the engine down to safety shutoff where the battery was almost dead and the camera would still produce good video with no re-tuning. I also noticed that when the battery was full I could run at half throttle with no video trouble after a minute or two. So, this setup would probably be workable but I think the problem I'm having now is voltage drop on the plane battery after a few minutes at full throttle causing the camera tx signal to drift a bit. Problems...problems...problems. I wish I could get the plane to work with the 9v regulator as that produces the purest video, halts signal drift due to voltage drop, and maintains good camera performance at various battery voltage levels.

Unless Troglotech can come up with a new fix for this regulator my options are getting more narrow. I can run the camera (AND regulator) off a seperate battery but this will create weight concerns. I did notice that the car alarm remotes use a very small 12V battery (about half the length of a double A battery and a little bit thicker) but I'm not sure how long that would power the camera. I see others with Challengers have used a 9V but they did have some trouble with keeping the plane stable. Perhaps there is a 9 or 12V rechargable out there that is smaller than a 9V yet will give me at least twenty or thirty minutes of run time? The only other option I can think of is to try the original 12v regulator or some other different regulator than the 9V I've been using. Perhaps they won't cause the interference problems with the plane. I'm starting to think this camera has beaten me but still hold out hope for more options.

(in reply to Troglotech)
       Post #: 82

RE: Cam For Aerobird Challenger On The Way (Many Plane ... - 11/8/2004 8:50:16 AM   
Troglotech



Posts: 165
Joined: 9/8/2004
From: WhitehillHants, UNITED KINGDOM
Status: offline 		Hello Critterhunter, I'm sorry you are having so many problems, sounds like nothing but bad luck so far. I think we should try and tackle one problem at a time. Let's go back to the simple diode / capacitor noise removal circuit. If you fit a fully charged 8.4V battery (I believe that you have some of these?), the terminal voltage is somewhere around 10V, allow a 0.6V drop for the diode and you should still have around 9.4V available when the battery is fully charged. That should be perfectly acceptable to both the camera and TX, there should be no frequency drift. If the system does not work in that configuration then you have more problems elsewhere.

You say that you lost the picture at about three storeys high......how was the RX and TX aerials positioned? They both need to be polarized in the same direction...i.e. both the TX and RX aerials must be either horizontal or vertical. If you use vertical polarization then you can get problems when the TX is directly above the RX but generally less problems than when both aerials are horizontal. I have been using vertical polarization for a while and get good results (300M+) with the RX just sitting on top of the field battery so you should have no problems with the RX on a pole. It is quite normal to lose the signal if the plane gets between the TX aerial and the RX aerial, this becomes less of a problem when you get some altitude as the aerial is 'seen' by the RX from below. As you have done tests showing that you still get a good signal even with a flat battery then you should be looking elsewhere other than the power supply for the cause of the problem. We need to get the system working correctly in this situation first....later we can worry about getting the DC to DC converter to work.

You can get small 12V batteries, as you say, key-fobs have them fitted, the problem is that they are have a feeble capacity of not more than 40mAH, giving a mission time of a few minutes at best, and they are not rechargeable. The PP3 9V batteries (smoke alarm type) can be bought in NiMh with capacities of 250mAH or so, they will give you a mission time of an hour or so before they need recharging, that is, if you can lift that much. If you want to try lifting a PP3 it might well be worth fitting the Commander main wing as these give a bit more lift than the Challenger.

There are a few more possibilities for increasing the voltage using the simple diode / capacitor filter, for instance a single AA cell wired in series with the X-Port will increase the voltage by 1.5V without adding too much weight (-ve terminal of the battery to the +ve output of the X-Port, +ve terminal of the battery to the diode). Alternatively, we could look at replacing the DC to DC converter with a lower-voltage type and use this to boost the X-Port voltage above the regulator threshold, a lot cheaper than starting again.

As I said earleir, let's get the simple stuff working to start with before we try and get the DC to DC converter going properly. 8.4V battery, fully charged, simple diode / capacitor filter and correct aerial polarization. Get that working and then we will worry about the next bits.....Tim....

< Message edited by Troglotech -- 11/8/2004 9:02:39 AM >

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       Post #: 83

RE: Cam For Aerobird Challenger On The Way (Many Plane ... - 11/8/2004 2:28:58 PM   
critterhunter



Posts: 2542
Joined: 9/24/2004
From: Brook Park, OH, USA
Status: offline 		Trog, yes...I agree. Really I didn't have enough fly time to see what the camera was doing. My first step will be to try flying the plane using my 8.4v 1100ma battery and simple diode/cap filter again. Perhaps I just didn't have the camera RX tuned properly (there are one or two false signal settings on the knob), or as you said the antenna wasn't positioned for best results. I had the camera RX straight up and down and the same with the camera TX. However, the way I mounted the camera TX I had the antenna wire coming out the upper left side of the TX card, requiring me to bend it downward to be verticle. Perhaps I should mount the TX card so that the antenna wire is coming straight out the bottom so I don't have to bend it. That change will be real easy, as the card will do nicely in either position on my mount.

Like I said, my in house run tests produced good video at full throttle, but I would say that after about two or three minutes the video would drift (not static, but appear as if the camera RX wasn't tuned in properly). I believe this was probably caused by the battery voltage dropping below a good working level for the camera TX. If I turned the throttle off the video would return, and remain stable at full throttle again but for a less duration of time. At half throttle the video would stay good, and only began to do the above after the battery voltage had dropped a good bit.

I'm going to follow all your suggestions and keept at it. But, one of my first tests will once again be to see if the regulator running off a 9V produces no range problems. I just want to make sure that the range problems are caused by noise through the Xport and not the regulator radiating RF noise into the air. Pretty sure it's not but I want to be sure. Will report back after more hacking.

(in reply to Troglotech)
       Post #: 84

RE: Cam For Aerobird Challenger On The Way (Many Plane ... - 1/19/2005 5:03:12 AM   
TX_Firehawk


 

Posts: 37
Joined: 12/23/2004
From: Houston, TX, USA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: critterhunter

However, I folded a tail on the crash and so once again I've been defeated.





LOL Don't think that man. I went through the same problems. I also own I think the same camera and an Aerobird Challenger. I cut the RCA off if mine as well not knowing about the regulator inside. When I tried to get power off pin 1+4 it fried it What made me mad was the fact that it had a short in the connector from the start. Me cutting it voided the warrenty. Believe me I was upset about that. Thought this whole hobby may infact just be too expensive for me.

Got over it.

Camera #2. Same brand/style from Raidentech.com again. I just strap a 9V to the bottom of the plane where an XPort module would go. My antenna comes out of the camera's case and just points straight back. If you are having all this trouble with getting clean power from the Xport, why not just opt for rechargable 9v's? I fly with 8.4V 7 Cell 1,100mHh packs and can hang out up there for over 20 min depending on how windy it is.

GL with your adventures. I am new to the forums here (been flying 6 weeks) so I will prob chime in from time to time with ideas of my own.


-The Aerobird-->










A Miss2 is on here way! I cant wait to fly it.

(in reply to critterhunter)
       Post #: 85

RE: Cam For Aerobird Challenger On The Way (Many Plane ... - 1/20/2005 6:37:17 PM   
critterhunter



Posts: 2542
Joined: 9/24/2004
From: Brook Park, OH, USA
Status: offline 		Nope, not the same camera...Mine has a seperate TX card and doesn't have a regulator in the cord. I've put the project on hold until spring as the weather here in Ohio is very bad right now and besides I'm spending most of my time hunting deer and other tastey critters. :') Randall has informed me about the new digital video recorders that record on board and that looks real promising to try this spring. No transimission worries with one of those. From what I've read I think they weigh around ninety something ounces which is roughly 3 grams (without battery), so I would think the Challenger could carry one. Anybody know the weight with battery and expanded memory card? Haven't given up on the camera/transmitter setup but that'll have to wait until spring.

_____________________________

If you believe in Global Warming then shut your mouth. All that hot air is warming up the planet, remember?

(in reply to TX_Firehawk)
       Post #: 86

RE: Cam For Aerobird Challenger On The Way (Many Plane ... - 1/20/2005 7:20:22 PM   
randall1959



Posts: 863
Joined: 8/29/2004
From: Bolckow, MO, USA
Status: offline 		I'll try to get mine weighed tomorrow at the post office and get back to you critter

_____________________________

I meant to do that.........

(in reply to critterhunter)
       Post #: 87

RE: Cam For Aerobird Challenger On The Way (Many Plane ... - 1/24/2005 3:30:39 PM   
critterhunter



Posts: 2542
Joined: 9/24/2004
From: Brook Park, OH, USA
Status: offline 		I think I got that backards....they weigh around 90 something grams which equals roughly 3 to 4 ounces. However, I think thats without the