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All Forums >> RC Airplanes >> AMA Discussions >> Dave Brown vs Lithium
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Dave Brown vs Lithium - 9/29/2004 1:41 AM   
Red Scholefield



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Status: offline 		Gentlemen,
AMA voting for the presidency is in process. The information presented here is vital to that process.
Please read the unmodified Soapbox item as submitted. Then review the modifications Brown insists be made.
1. Dave Brown has been AMA Pres for three terms and should have stepped down this term as he had agreed. Yet, he chose to run again.
2. In May, 2004, Brown presented a Presidents Perspective column that was on the subject of Lithium Polymer Batteries that he knows almost nothing about, but chose to make it confrontational and misleading.
3. I took the matter up with him directly in dialogue, tried to educate and correct his most glaring errors. I spent an hour with Don Lowe of the Safety Committee at Toledo and Don and that committee handled the situation accurately and professionally. Yet, Brown belittles their efforts in his mark up of my article.
4. His response was a follow on column in the August issue that added more of the same and closed with an asinine remark.
5. I wrote a Letter to the Editor of Model Aviation in response and submited it to Bob Hunt, Editor.
6. Hunt requested that I make it a Soapbox article as one of the AMA's methods of presenting other viewpoints. This was done and the article attached was promised to be published in the November issue to hit the mail in Sept. All this has obviously been delayed in an attempt to stonewall and delay to the point that voters would not see a true picture.
7. The Oct issue arrived and there was no Soap Box. Surprise!
8. On Sept 27. I received a lengthy haranguing call from Dave Brown insisting that I change my opinion to conform with his. This is not arguable. I insisted that he send me a redline copy laying out his objections. I have attached the redline copy Brown sent me that shows it clearly.
9. I called Bob Hunt on Sept 28 to get his reading and he informed me he had sent the article to Brown for review. Why should this be done with a Soapbox article that is supposed to represent another viewpoint? This was done even though Hunt admits he never had the opportunity to edit Browns two columns. Hunt then insisted that the article would not be published unless it was modified to accomodate Browns directives.
10. Thus Brown demands to deprive AMA membership of a more accurate viewpoint from one who has led the way in AMA Frequency matters and in the introduction and promotion of Li Po technology via strong eductional activity.
11. This is a travesty and an egregious misues of power to suppress the first amendment rights of any AMA member to be heard and to exercise undue influence on the editorial staff of Model Aviation.
12. Truly, it is time for a new AMA Pres. I take this opportunity to endorse Dave Matthewson for that position.
13. You have my authorization to forward this message to any member of AMA that you know. The number of electric flyers alone is enough to decide this election.
14. An attempt to reach Rob Kurek, Director of Publications today to see if he was aware of this situation brought the usual AMA response: leave a message.

Fred Marks AMA 1733

I have tested Kokam lithium Ion extensively, discussed issues with Don Lowe and as Fred states they handled the situation accurately and professionally.

Not many DB Products addressing electric flight.

< Message edited by Red Scholefield -- 9/29/2004 1:42 AM >

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RE: Dave Brown vs Lithium - 9/29/2004 2:56 AM   
smokingcrater


 

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RE: Dave Brown vs Lithium - 9/29/2004 3:31 AM   
BobbyRichardson


 

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Status: offline 		Red do you ever have anything positive to say about anyone. Relax, this is a hobby. We'll make up our own minds as to who we want to vote for.

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RE: Dave Brown vs Lithium - 9/29/2004 3:45 AM   
J_R


 

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Status: offline 		Can't see that Red had much to say, other than he tested the batteries. The letter is from Fred Marks . If you do not know who Fred Marks is, he is the FM in FMA Direct, an AMA Hall of Famer and one of the real electrical experts in model aviation.

Either you guys want facts, or you don't. I seems some would rather shoot the messanger then hear the message.

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RE: Dave Brown vs Lithium - 9/29/2004 3:47 AM   
BobbyRichardson


 

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RE: Dave Brown vs Lithium - 9/29/2004 3:53 AM   
J_R


 

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Status: offline 		The thing starts with "Gentlemen" and ends with FM's sig. Everything between is FM's. No edits. The last to paragraphs are Red's.

Hey Red, draw em a picutre next time. Stuff like this stands well on its own with no comments at all.

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RE: Dave Brown vs Lithium - 9/29/2004 4:10 AM   
mongo



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Status: offline 		so, where do i find the refrenced soabbox article?

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RE: Dave Brown vs Lithium - 9/29/2004 4:16 AM   
J_R


 

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http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/Make_your_AMA_Vote_count/m_2210962/tm.htm

This should settle it. Marks made his own post... with the soapbox article

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RE: Dave Brown vs Lithium - 9/29/2004 4:26 AM   
mongo



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just was a ways down on the new posts list

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RE: Dave Brown vs Lithium - 9/29/2004 10:48 AM   
Red Scholefield



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quote:

ORIGINAL: BobbyRichardson

Red do you ever have anything positive to say about anyone. Relax, this is a hobby. We'll make up our own minds as to who we want to vote for.


I note your address. It explains your view. McNeill is gone! His legacy will be gone soon! Live with it!

Red S.

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RE: Dave Brown vs Lithium - 9/29/2004 11:03 AM   
Red Scholefield



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quote:

ORIGINAL: BobbyRichardson

Red do you ever have anything positive to say about anyone. Relax, this is a hobby. We'll make up our own minds as to who we want to vote for.


Sure, just like we got to made up our minds to vote for our present incumbent D-V VP!

Red S.

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RE: Dave Brown vs Lithium - 9/29/2004 5:02 PM   
BillyGoat


 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: BobbyRichardson

You must have read every other line.


You obviously didn’t read the part where it says, Fred Marks AMA 1733
As in the Author.

quote:

ORIGINAL: BobbyRichardson
Red do you ever have anything positive to say about anyone. Relax, this is a hobby. We'll make up our own minds as to who we want to vote for.


Red calls a spade a spade and certainly doesn’t sugar coat his post. I may not agree with everything he’s posted on this forum but I sure do appreciate his candor. If more people were as passionate about the AMA as Red it would be a much better organization.

< Message edited by BillyGoat -- 9/29/2004 5:05 PM >

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RE: Dave Brown vs Lithium - 9/30/2004 3:16 AM   
BobbyRichardson


 

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Status: offline 		Red calls everything a spade. I would like to see how many votes he would get if he run for DVP. By the way if he knows so much why don't he run?

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Jim McNeil - 9/30/2004 4:12 AM   
nick.wright


 

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Status: offline 		How the heck did Jim get brought into this. I thought it was about Dave Brown's position on lithium batteries. Red, one day you and your "legacy" will be gone. LIVE WITH THAT

< Message edited by nick.wright -- 9/30/2004 4:16 AM >

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RE: Dave Brown vs Lithium - 9/30/2004 4:24 AM   
J_R


 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: BobbyRichardson

Red calls everything a spade. I would like to see how many votes he would get if he run for DVP. By the way if he knows so much why don't he run?

You have a point. Red rarely posts unless he has something to say. There are a few here who dig for facts, and when they find them, they share them. Red is one.

He has all the finesse of a bull in a china shop, but, he gets his point across. When he offers an opinion, as opposed to facts, you rarely have to wonder what he said.

If you would read, which, if your earlier interpretation of what Red posted is an example of your ability to do, shows as something you don't like to do, you can go through the posts in this forum and find any one of several times Red has said exactly why he will not run for office.

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RE: Jim McNeil - 9/30/2004 4:33 AM   
J_R


 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: nick.wright

How the heck did Jim get brought into this. I thought it was about Dave Brown's position on lithium batteries. Red, one day you and your "legacy" will be gone. LIVE WITH THAT

This forum is about the way the AMA is run. If you expect a thread to stay on topic, you are kidding yourself.

You seem on the inside with Judi Dunlop, having claimed to talk to her last night. Can you explain something to us? She was NOT considered as an incumbent when she was placed on the ballot as a candidate by the nominating committee. A few minutes later she was named INTRIEM VP of DV, as evidenced in the EC minutes. How does that make her an incumbent? When she was named as a candidate she was an AVP, that was it. Who, exactly, authorized her to use the word "incumbent" in her campaign statement?

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RE: Dave Brown vs Lithium - 9/30/2004 11:23 AM   
Red Scholefield



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quote:

ORIGINAL: BobbyRichardson

Red calls everything a spade. I would like to see how many votes he would get if he run for DVP. By the way if he knows so much why don't he run?


1. Because the AMA or the District does not need another 75 year old on the EC!

2. My temperment would not allow me to work effectively with a number of the present EC board members.

It is time we got some very capable younger people on the program.

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RE: Jim McNeil - 9/30/2004 12:35 PM   
nick.wright


 

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Status: offline 		This forum is about AMA issues. Red had a valid point when he started the thread about Dave Brown's policy and opinions on lithium batteries. MY question was how did he manage to bring Jim McNeil into it?? Was it because someone from Birmingham made a statement in this thread?? Is he (Red) expressing some feelings that he might share with his pick of candidate for District 5? In regards to Judi, I believe there is another thread related to her. Why not ask your question there?

< Message edited by nick.wright -- 9/30/2004 6:18 PM >

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RE: Dave Brown vs Lithium - 9/30/2004 2:17 PM   
Sport_Pilot



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quote:

If so, maby Red should stay on topic in this thread and start another elsewhere.


You don't want Red to stay on topic or you wouldn't be screaming so. You just want Red to say he is sorry so you can feel that Jim McNeil did a good job. Well I doubt Red will apologize and if he did it wouldn't change the fact that McNeil wasn't a good VP.

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RE: Dave Brown vs Lithium - 9/30/2004 3:01 PM   
P-51B



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Status: offline 		A funnier title for this thread would be "Dave Brown on Lithium".

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RE: Dave Brown vs Lithium - 9/30/2004 3:19 PM   
nick.wright


 

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Status: offline 		If Jim wasn't a good VP, how the heck did he stay VP for so long? Crap, now I'm getting off topic!!!

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RE: Dave Brown vs Lithium - 9/30/2004 3:31 PM   
J_R


 

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You responded to Red about McNeil in this thread... and not just once.

If you think the fact you are a moderator makes any difference in this forum, you are mistaken. We have our own set of moderators who do a very nice job... thank you.

The theads take us where they go. No one can force you to answer a question, or questions. You can just ignore any you chose to ignore. So far, you offer opinions are unsupported by facts. Questions to you are not answered and, as a result, your credibility is slipping.

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RE: Dave Brown vs Lithium - 9/30/2004 3:39 PM   
Sport_Pilot



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If Jim wasn't a good VP, how the heck did he stay VP for so long?


How could that matter in a association where 3/4 of the members just check off the incumbent? And less than half heard of the incumbent before they checked it off? Only about half the members will recognize any of the three candidates.

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RE: Dave Brown vs Lithium - 9/30/2004 3:47 PM   
nick.wright


 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: J_R

nick

You responded to Red about McNeil in this thread... and not just once.

If you think the fact you are a moderator makes any difference in this forum, you are mistaken. We have our own set of moderators who do a very nice job... thank you.

The theads take us where they go. No one can force you to answer a question, or questions. You can just ignore any you chose to ignore. So far, you offer opinions are unsupported by facts. Questions to you are not answered and, as a result, your credibility is slipping.


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RE: Dave Brown vs Lithium - 9/30/2004 4:01 PM   
J_R


 

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Post 16, the current thread

Post 62 this thread: http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/m_2207831/anchors_2214250/mpage_3/anchor/tm.htm#

Other questions were directed toward Judi, which you stated she would answer (ostensibly through you). That was two days ago. They involved her position on current AMA issues. Apparently, she is having to do research to find out her position… something she will not have time to do in an EC meeting.

Keep in mind this particular thread has been supplanted by the one subsequently made by Fred Marks . This type of thing happens often in the AMA forum. As a result, the title of a thread often has no relationship to what is being discussed in the thread.

Oh.. and don’t feel bad. We have the best moderators RCU has to offer. Not everyone is equipped to keep their personal views out of the moderation process.

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