RE: Trainers...what are they good for?  
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RE: Trainers...what are they good for? - 10/10/2004 11:19:38 PM   
rcdude37


 

Posts: 678
Joined: 2/10/2004
From: lil hicktown, SD, USA
Status: offline 		trainer this trainer that
man alot of people responded to this topic!
you would rather have something you can grow into not out of..... crash that UCD and you will grow out of it, its an arf corect!? if i am right arf planes dont come with plans, you crash you are in a hole and trying to put parts together to get the basic shape to trace for a new piece.... corect or incorect?
also you can do a lot to a trainer that will make it more fun to fly, take the dyhedral out of the wing, bigger engine, more through, things like that or if you are more into it you could mount a new wing.... you ever fly a "trainer" with a fully symetrical flat wing?
trainers arnt a waist of money in any way....

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       Post #: 51

RE: Trainers...what are they good for? - 10/10/2004 11:50:32 PM   
ELTIGRE


 

Posts: 418
Joined: 8/4/2004
From: BERNVILLE, PA, USA
Status: offline 		ive been around this game quite a while & witnessed the majority of the trainers. nearly ALL of the trainers today are better than the majority that used to be availible . that is they are easier to fly. the idea is that they are designed for the majority of folks learning. there will always be exceptions both ways. ive seen a wide differences in skills and learning curves as well as retention rates.also the type of fun fly planeswith thick , forgiving airfoils were not around at one time and the normal progression was to a shoulder wing "ugly stick type" then a gentle low wing etc. I saw several examples of people who soloed trainers of the era , go immediately to the pattern types & get badly over whelmed by them.again some made faster progress than others due to time , age,effort,natural ability etc.To say that the trainer is useless is too general a statement or that in full size aviation a trainer or an instuctional plane is useless( there is some variance here since full scale IS different and the choices are as well.)you dont fly C-130's right out of OCS, you start on something less powerful & easier to handle.the idea of growing into a plane has some merit but you can bite off more than you can chew if your experience level is low to begin with.

(in reply to rcdude37)
       Post #: 52

RE: Trainers...what are they good for? - 10/11/2004 7:08:21 AM   
superflea


 

Posts: 294
Joined: 5/25/2003
From: raymond, WA, USA
Status: offline 		i think as is so often the case here people are getting the point of the issue but are ignoring it. A trainer is supposed to be slow to roll and pitch that is so that it will give the student time to see what he made the plane do and come to an understanding, you know cause and effect, and learn from it. if anyone really thinks they can learn much from a plane that rolls like a rifle bullet they are nuts. yeah ok so turn the rates down.....oh wait a minute here now are we talking about throwing a comp. radio in to the mix here? did the learning curve just sharpen? just wondering is all. a 3d plane will go where you point it as if on rails that is good for a 3d plane or a sport plane but for a pre-solo student this can cause one to chew a bunch of altitude fast. ok ok so this is where the instructor comes in and saves the day new paragraph time.

another problem is that the newly soloed pilot will too soon try to wring that little 3d plane out and end up sweeping it up. just because you can take off and land and fly the pattern doesnt mean that you can hover or torque roll. but you know with a 3d plane you will be tempted to try and you will be tempted before you are ready. a trainer is a stepping stone, it is meant to fly the pattern, figure eights etc. they dont lend themselves to snap rolling in to the ground, its hard to get disoriented with them and they are forgiving in flight too many low wing sport/3d planes arent a trainer is a tool like a hammer can you learn to fly without this tool sure you can and you can build a house with out a hammer but its more trouble than its worth. in my opinion but what do i know i live on the coast

(in reply to ELTIGRE)
       Post #: 53

RE: Trainers...what are they good for? - 10/11/2004 3:24:54 PM   
britbrat


 

Posts: 3299
Joined: 6/15/2004
From: Deep River, ON, CANADA
Status: offline 		I've been doing this stuff for 55 yrs & I still keep a pair of hot-rodded Superstars around & fly them regularly. Trainers are good for training & they are good for flying -- long after you can fly the butt off something more challenging

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       Post #: 54

RE: Trainers...what are they good for? - 10/11/2004 7:28:45 PM   
JohnBuckner



Posts: 4009
Joined: 12/23/2001
From: Kingman, AZ, USA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: britbrat

I've been doing this stuff for 55 yrs & I still keep a pair of hot-rodded Superstars around & fly them regularly. Trainers are good for training & they are good for flying -- long after you can fly the butt off something more challenging



Amen, Dittos!

John

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       Post #: 55

RE: Trainers...what are they good for? - 10/15/2004 2:43:27 PM   
britbrat


 

Posts: 3299
Joined: 6/15/2004
From: Deep River, ON, CANADA
Status: offline 		I just spent yesterday afternoon flying one of my old Superstar hot rods -- it was so much fun that I didn't bother flying anything else. It is very satisfying making a low inverted pass (~2') just above stall down the length of the runway, then accelerating into an outside loop from there. I also did some backwards flying in the wind & managed a perfect vertical landing. These things never get old.

(in reply to JohnBuckner)
       Post #: 56

RE: Trainers...what are they good for? - 10/16/2004 6:24:04 AM   
CafeenMan



Posts: 3906
Joined: 1/19/2003
From: Spring Hill, FL, USA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: MikeMc

I've never seen anything fly worse than a trainer.


A lot of people design a trainer as their first design and as such they aren't very good designs. A lot of companies put out trainers that really aren't that great either. In fact, some companies simply don't know how to design a model properly, period. They put their bottom line ahead of all else which usually means substandard engineering and materials. Of course this only applies to certain companies - not all.

A good trainer flies very well and actually flies rather than being hauled around by the engine. Too many guys never learn how to fly an airplane. They can't perform basic maneuvers with any precision at all. Instead they yank their planes around the sky.


quote:

This whole idea that they will self right themself is bunk.


Says who? A properly designed trainer can right itself. The student needs to get into the habit of cutting the throttle when he gets into trouble so that plane isn't boring toward the ground at full throttle. Again, if a trainer doesn't right itself, then it's not designed properly. Yes, it may take 200 feet, but that's why a beginner is supposed to fly 3 mistakes high (400 feet or so).


quote:

I don't know about a UCD but a low or mid wing sport plane makes a better trainer.


I strongly disagree with this as well. I believe proper flight training is a 3-airplane process and also believe that an instructor should sign off on all three of the models before the student can start flying whatever he wants. This hobby is getting more and more dangerous for a lot of reasons, but I think the biggest reason is because of what I already said - folks want to move up too quickly and never learn the fundamentals.

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RE: Trainers...what are they good for? - 10/16/2004 12:26:48 PM   
Vortec



Posts: 409
Joined: 1/15/2004
From: Alstonville, AUSTRALIA
Status: offline 		My trainer helped me to learn the setup and repair of the aircraft,not only the flying bit.

It is going to come off the wall as i want to fly it again JUST FOR SOME FUN,and thats what its all about.

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       Post #: 58

RE: Trainers...what are they good for? - 10/17/2004 1:31:09 AM   
rcdude37


 

Posts: 678
Joined: 2/10/2004
From: lil hicktown, SD, USA
Status: offline 		cafeenman-
i would have to agree with the 3 plane training thing
but the way i see it most of these "new guys" in the hobby arent going to listen and most will just have to find out the hard way!.....
my first trainer flew like crap too(tail heavy), but i still acctually have in hanging on the wall....
and im still trying to decide if i should just get a bigger engine for it and fix that problem
just because a plane flyes like crap dont mean its a bad thing to fly.... it prepares you for when you have problems with a plane in the future...

_____________________________

t-maxx3.0(18tm), the more i give it the more it gives back

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       Post #: 59

RE: Trainers...what are they good for? - 10/17/2004 1:47:36 AM   
CafeenMan



Posts: 3906
Joined: 1/19/2003
From: Spring Hill, FL, USA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: rcdude37

cafeenman-
i would have to agree with the 3 plane training thing
but the way i see it most of these "new guys" in the hobby arent going to listen and most will just have to find out the hard way!.....
my first trainer flew like crap too(tail heavy), but i still acctually have in hanging on the wall....
and im still trying to decide if i should just get a bigger engine for it and fix that problem
just because a plane flyes like crap dont mean its a bad thing to fly.... it prepares you for when you have problems with a plane in the future...

You'll be surprised the difference it makes just getting the plane balanced properly. You might want to consider cutting off the tail and building a lighter one. That way the plane will be lighter overall instead of heavier overall if you add a larger engine.

As far as the 3-plane thing goes, I understand that people want to do whatever they want to do. Currently the AMA can't really do anything about it and I've never seen a club that enforced most of the rules and regs.

Personally, I think things need to be set up so that a student has no choice. If that means making real laws then that's what needs to happen because this hobby is doing an extremely poor job of policing itself. If we act like children then we shouldn't complain when we are treated as such.

It doesn't matter what club I go to on any given day, almost without exception somebody loses control of their plane and it buzzes past someone else's head.

I think it's only a matter of time before our hobby starts gaining more attention in the news due to accidents. When that happens it will already be too late for us to take the matter into our own hands. Someone else will do it for us.

The only thing going on right now is Dave Brown pleading with us to be safe, but it's obvious that nobody is listening.

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Work is what I do for the love of it. A job is how I pay for it. :)
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RE: Trainers...what are they good for? - 10/18/2004 10:57:45 AM   
billyt


 

Posts: 4
Joined: 9/28/2004
From: lunenburg, VT, USA
Status: offline 		i bought a nextstar select based on review in rcu yesturday now i wonder if i should just go directly to ducted fan,and skip the learning process or stay on the ground and water

(in reply to CafeenMan)
       Post #: 61

RE: Trainers...what are they good for? - 10/18/2004 11:02:09 AM   
CafeenMan



Posts: 3906
Joined: 1/19/2003
From: Spring Hill, FL, USA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: billyt

i bought a nextstar select based on review in rcu yesturday now i wonder if i should just go directly to ducted fan,and skip the learning process or stay on the ground and water

Getting a ducted fan as your first R/C aircraft is a really bad idea!!!!!!!!!!

First, they're phasing out and the choices are very limited. Second, the technology peaked and although workable, a lot of the available energy went to waste.

That's why I recommend that you get a twin turbine F-15 to use as a trainer. If you shop around you can probably complete the model for under $15K.

_____________________________

Work is what I do for the love of it. A job is how I pay for it. :)
Please visit AirfieldModels.com

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RE: Trainers...what are they good for? - 10/18/2004 11:15:00 AM   
billyt


 

Posts: 4
Joined: 9/28/2004
From: lunenburg, VT, USA
Status: offline 		what is your advise for a beginer to learn to fly rc aircraft

(in reply to CafeenMan)
       Post #: 63

RE: Trainers...what are they good for? - 10/18/2004 11:17:47 AM