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RE: Shot Down - 3/15/2005 3:15:46 PM   
Haldor


 

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Joined: 1/16/2004
From: Algard, NORWAY
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quote:

ORIGINAL: RC-FIEND
The point I am arguing is , compensation for your loss isn't always the available.


And the point I was arguing was the one that is to blame is the first one thats expected to fess up
Of course, compensation is not always available but that is a totally different issue.

Happy flying,
Haldor



(in reply to RC-Captain)
       Post #: 376

RE: Shot Down - 3/15/2005 3:45:28 PM   
mr_matt



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quote:

ORIGINAL: RC-FIEND

Is this starting to make sense. All I can say is if you are flying a 10K dollar jet amoung $100-$300 dollar planes expect the worse.




Don't worry, after reading this thread again, I certainly do expect the worst from many people now.


_____________________________

Matt
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       Post #: 377

RE: Shot Down - 3/15/2005 11:20:14 PM   
Dragon Soaring


 

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Before I fly a plane i ask myself "Self can i afford to throw $XXXX in to the air and watch it fly away??" if the answer is "NO" then i fly somthing else. You launched it you take the risk. If he dont want to pay hes not wecome to fly with me or any one else i know.

< Message edited by Dragon Soaring -- 3/15/2005 11:21:16 PM >

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       Post #: 378

RE: Shot Down - 3/16/2005 12:21:57 AM   
RC-Captain



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quote:

Before I fly a plane i ask myself "Self can i afford to throw $XXXX in to the air and watch it fly away??" if the answer is "NO" then i fly somthing else. You launched it you take the risk. If he dont want to pay hes not wecome to fly with me or any one else i know.


I'm confused, who is he ?

_____________________________

I finally broke bread and bought a real charger , THE TRITON 2............

(in reply to Dragon Soaring)
       Post #: 379

RE: Shot Down - 3/16/2005 4:00:46 AM   
Broken



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From: Herriman, UT, USA
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Dragon Soaring

Before I fly a plane i ask myself "Self can i afford to throw $XXXX in to the air and watch it fly away??" if the answer is "NO" then i fly somthing else. You launched it you take the risk. If he dont want to pay hes not wecome to fly with me or any one else i know.


WOW!!! I ask my self stuff all the time- But I never get any replies!!!!!!

_____________________________

I think I will do one more flight!!!!

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       Post #: 380

RE: Shot Down - 3/17/2005 5:55:01 AM   
CafeenMan



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OK, my question is this to all those who feel that the person "responsible" for the shoot down should pay in all cases...

If I am barely able to afford the basic costs of living and marginally maintain a model to fly and I shoot down a $10K airplane which I obviously can't afford which is evident when you see my car that has rust holes all over, it's missing the hood and the muffler is about to fall off, how do you expect me to pay the $10K?

I think we're all well aware that people make mistakes. We also know that most clubs are very casual. We also know that the cost of the average RC plane in the air is probably less than $500.00 completed and ready to fly.

Not necessarily true, but probably true is that the guy flying the $10K airplane has more expendable income than 99% of all participants in this hobby. When I drive I drive like everyone else wants to kill me personally. I have never been in an accident.

If I had an Indy car you would not see me driving it on the road with the average person knowing that he could probably not afford to replace my car. I don't care whose fault it is. I don't want my car destroyed.

The same goes for my models. If I spent a year building a model, which I do sometimes, I don't fly it when the known yahoos are at the field. It won't matter to me if I can blame him for destroying my plane. What matters is that a year's work is destroyed and no court in the world is going to compensate me for my time. The materials in the plane are probably about $500.00 and I'd be lucky to get that.

Everybody here seems to think it's all about money. There's not one guy in my club who can build to my standards and therefore nobody can replace one of my planes.

It's my responsibility to protect myself.

All of this is going on the assumption that it was a true accident. If the guy walked over to my plane and jumped on it or I knew for a fact he deliberately shot me down, I'd want blood, but that's as far as it would go. I still doubt I'd get anything.

I can tell you right now that if I shoot down a guy's $10K airplane he'll never see the money. I would offer to pay what I could afford and I would offer to do some work for him. That's what I can do.

My suggestion is to look at the average member of your club and try to make a determination of what they could compensate you. Then weigh the risk of bringing your plane out. If you're willing to take the risk then take responsibility for taking it.

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RE: Shot Down - 3/17/2005 7:25:45 AM   
RC-Captain



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Well written CafeenMan.

_____________________________

I finally broke bread and bought a real charger , THE TRITON 2............

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       Post #: 382

RE: Shot Down - 3/17/2005 12:40:55 PM   
jonkoppisch



Posts: 1924
Joined: 12/17/2001
From: Wilmer, AL, USA
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The question is, if you turn on your radio while someone else has the pin, are you responsible for their plane. Not are you responsible if the plane doesn't cost over $400 or are you only responsible if you do it on purpose or...... If you are at fault, you are responsible for the other persons property if you cause damage to it. As far as the replacement cost, that's between them and you. Most people are very reasonable if the person admits they made a mistake and are willing to try and fix it!!! Once again, if i see a jet flying i know that he's only going to fly for maybe 7 minutes. Instead of taking a chance, I'll just wait a couple of minutes until he's landed then I'll go ahead and fly. That's using a little common sense. If there's a Ferrari cruising down the road in front of me, I'm not going to tailgate it, I'm going to give it plenty of extra room because I know there's no way in **** that I can afford to ever replace it!! There's plenty of time for everyone to fly and enjoy their hobby!!!

_____________________________

xps and a flash = NO MORE FLASH...
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(in reply to RC-Captain)
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RE: Shot Down - 3/17/2005 1:10:24 PM   
RC-Captain



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quote:

The question is, if you turn on your radio while someone else has the pin, are you responsible for their plane. Not are you responsible if the plane doesn't cost over $400 or are you only responsible if you do it on purpose


Of course you are responsible I never argued this point from the beginning of the post.


quote:

Once again, if i see a jet flying i know that he's only going to fly for maybe 7 minutes. Instead of taking a chance, I'll just wait a couple of minutes until he's landed then I'll go ahead and fly. That's using a little common sense. If there's a Ferrari cruising down the road in front of me,


If every body thinks the way you do then there wouldn't be a reason for this post. But knowing every body doesn't think like you this where the 10k jet flyers responsibility should kick in .....


quote:

If there's a Ferrari cruising down the road in front of me, I'm not going to tailgate it, I'm going to give it plenty of extra room because I know there's no way in **** that I can afford to ever replace it!!



I wouldn't tailgate a junker never mind a Farrari. Besides I work in NYC often and I almost never see a Farrari cruising any where. Would you like to guess why ?

_____________________________

I finally broke bread and bought a real charger , THE TRITON 2............

(in reply to jonkoppisch)
       Post #: 384

RE: Shot Down - 3/17/2005 2:28:46 PM   
jonkoppisch



Posts: 1924
Joined: 12/17/2001
From: Wilmer, AL, USA
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quote:

quote:

The question is, if you turn on your radio while someone else has the pin, are you responsible for their plane. Not are you responsible if the plane doesn't cost over $400 or are you only responsible if you do it on purpose

Of course you are responsible I never argued this point from the beginning of the post.


This is important because it establishes fault! If you're at fault then you're responsible for the consequences!!

Several times I've heard that 'you shouldn't fly if your not prepared to loose it', well this is true and even by these standards, you shouldn't fly if you're not prepared for the consequences, whether that is loosing your plane or fixing someone elses!!!

It's simple. If you shoot somone down, it's your fault. If it's your fault then it's your responsiblity to make it work it out with the other person whether it's a $35 park flier or a $8000 jet. It's the principle, not the price!! Are you respectible enough to do the right thing?

As far as the jet fliers being responsible. If they fly with you they take the same responsibility as you. They shoot you down, they work it out with you!! Fair is fair or is there an extra set of rules for those people that shouldn't be held to the ama/club rules?

_____________________________

xps and a flash = NO MORE FLASH...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m2HxRNgkjpQ

(in reply to RC-Captain)
       Post #: 385

RE: Shot Down - 3/17/2005 2:29:57 PM   
jonkoppisch



Posts: 1924
Joined: 12/17/2001
From: Wilmer, AL, USA
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quote:

Talk is cheap but mistakes are not.......


PS, I find this very interesting.....





< Message edited by jonkoppisch -- 3/17/2005 2:30:27 PM >


_____________________________

xps and a flash = NO MORE FLASH...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m2HxRNgkjpQ

(in reply to RC-Captain)
       Post #: 386

RE: Shot Down - 3/17/2005 3:28:59 PM   
Broken



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From: Herriman, UT, USA
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remember- LABELS ARE BAD..... such as

quote:

Not necessarily true, but probably true is that the guy flying the $10K airplane has more expendable income than 99% of all participants in this hobby. When I drive I drive like everyone else wants to kill me personally. I have never been in an accident.


Your assumption of jet flyers is overstate - wrong - and dividing. It is know wonder this discussion has carried on so long. I AM POOR therefore I should not be held fully accountable for my actions- That is ludicrous...

Just because you cause damage by accident does not release you from liability- You may not be able to afford 10,000 up front. But I bet you could pay $6.00 every week for 1666 weeks..... Never underestimate the court systems- BESIDES if you are correct the Jet guy can afford to sue you and has the money to do it!!!!

Just a reminder to not make blanket assumptions- THEY ARE BAD...

_____________________________

I think I will do one more flight!!!!

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RE: Shot Down - 3/17/2005 5:58:17 PM   
CafeenMan



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quote:

ORIGINAL: Broken

remember- LABELS ARE BAD..... such as

quote:

Not necessarily true, but probably true is that the guy flying the $10K airplane has more expendable income than 99% of all participants in this hobby. When I drive I drive like everyone else wants to kill me personally. I have never been in an accident.


Your assumption of jet flyers is overstate - wrong - and dividing.


My assumption??? I never mentioned "jets". Why do you "assume" I'm talking about jets. If I spent a year building a model I would value it at far higher than a mere $10K. Are you going to pay me $20K for my time even though materials "only" cost $500.00??? I doubt it.

quote:


I AM POOR therefore I should not be held fully accountable for my actions- That is ludicrous...

Just because you cause damage by accident does not release you from liability- You may not be able to afford 10,000 up front. But I bet you could pay $6.00 every week for 1666 weeks.


You shouldn't make blanket statements and assumptions. I might not be able to afford to pay $6.00 a week. Maybe I can afford to pay $1.00 a month for 10,000 months. If that would make what you assume to be a jet guy happy then fine.


_____________________________

Work is what I do for the love of it. A job is how I pay for it. :)
Please visit AirfieldModels.com

(in reply to Broken)