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RE: Shot Down - 10/18/2004 5:21:13 PM   
twistr



Posts: 468
Joined: 8/24/2004
From: Lone Grove, OK, USA
Status: offline 		As Nebbie said, this is a hobby, and to put someone in debt for 200$ a month for the rest of their life is ridiculous! Is that going to replace your $8000 plane immediately? No, what you are doing is taking food off the table of their kids and family and definitely putting them out of the hobby. This hobby is not for the *elite*. It is for anyone who wants to get into it and as far into it as they can afford or want to pay. If you have $8000 tied up in a plane, and money *is* an object, then you need some serious therapy!

I say take your $8000 plane and go fly it in the desert, where noobody will be there to *shoot* you down.

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Fly 'em if ya got 'em !!

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RE: Shot Down - 10/18/2004 5:54:06 PM   
MikeMc



Posts: 572
Joined: 2/19/2004
From: Union City, CA, USA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: mr_matt

You guys are a little behind the times.

Of course insurance is the answer...the SHOOTER's insurance, not the plane owner.

The 8000 jet guy just sues you and your homeowners will have to pay, under the general liability type clause. If you do not have insurance you get a judgement.

I know of 2 cases just like this in LA, both very cut and dried, in one case insurance paid, in another a judgement getting paied at like 200 a month for the next million years.

You know what happens if the SHOOTER doesn't have $8000? Right, nothing. In fact no lawer will take an owners case ones they figure out the SHOOTER has no insurance and no money. Nice try.

I love how guys with expensive planes "play" with poor guys and in fact know that the system is not 100% perfect, and have it all figured out how the poor dude will pay for their plane. Get a clue, we fly $100 planes because that's all we can afford. If we could afford to pay for your $8000 plane we'd have one ourself. OMG, this argument is so stupid.

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Sponge Mike Square Pants - Insubordinate Renegade Airforce (IRA 1)

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RE: Shot Down - 10/18/2004 6:05:02 PM   
mr_matt



Posts: 6634
Joined: 12/7/2001
From: Oak Park, CA,
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: MikeMc


You know what happens if the SHOOTER doesn't have $8000? Right, nothing. In fact no lawer will take an owners case ones they figure out the SHOOTER has no insurance and no money. Nice try.



Hey genius, didn't you see my post, I already know a guy that got a judgement in Los Angeles, small claims, no lawyer. In many places, small claims limits can be quite high.

Don't blame me, blame the US judicial system for holding people responsible for personal negligence...how dare they!!

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Matt
JetCat rep

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       Post #: 28

RE: Shot Down - 10/18/2004 6:22:08 PM   
MikeMc



Posts: 572
Joined: 2/19/2004
From: Union City, CA, USA
Status: offline 		Hey Matt,

$8000 in small claims? Guess what, I think you're full of crap.

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Sponge Mike Square Pants - Insubordinate Renegade Airforce (IRA 1)

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       Post #: 29

RE: Shot Down - 10/18/2004 6:36:04 PM   
mr_matt



Posts: 6634
Joined: 12/7/2001
From: Oak Park, CA,
Status: offline 		I never said the case in Californa was for that much, the limit is $5k in California.

About 1/2 the states have limits of at least $5K, several are over $10K.

The best place to be negligent is in Kentucy ($1,200 limit), but make sure you radio does not bleed over the border into Tennessee! ($15K-$25K limit in small claims)

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Matt
JetCat rep

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       Post #: 30

RE: Shot Down - 10/18/2004 6:50:01 PM   
MikeMc



Posts: 572
Joined: 2/19/2004
From: Union City, CA, USA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: mr_matt

You guys are a little behind the times.

Of course insurance is the answer...the SHOOTER's insurance, not the plane owner.

The 8000 jet guy just sues you and your homeowners will have to pay, under the general liability type clause. If you do not have insurance you get a judgement.

I know of 2 cases just like this in LA, both very cut and dried, in one case insurance paid, in another a judgement getting paied at like 200 a month for the next million years.


Hey genius, yes you did say that.

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Sponge Mike Square Pants - Insubordinate Renegade Airforce (IRA 1)

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       Post #: 31

RE: Shot Down - 10/18/2004 7:54:34 PM   
Broken



Posts: 790
Joined: 9/8/2002
From: Herriman, UT, USA
Status: offline 		When you tie that much money ($8g's) into a model why not get yourself off of the frequency board altogether. Leave it for us poor poppers who feel the need to share with others. The expensive planes at my local area field use Ham Radio frequencies. They own the channel they fly on!! With your Amateur Radio license you can operate RC models with the use of exclusive Amateur Radio frequency.

If your going to put the money in it DO IT RIGHT and stop crying about your expensive model being shot down by a $100 arf flown by unexperienced kid who just wants to learn to fly a plane.
Bottom line:
If you share the board bad things WILL happen. I share the board therefore I accept the risk of someone making a mistake.

P.S. I really like the idea of a radio that scans before it will transmit. I would like to see this on my LCD when I turn the radio on.: ((CH38 Clr)) Press enter to xmit..

(in reply to MikeMc)
       Post #: 32

RE: Shot Down - 10/18/2004 7:59:54 PM   
CGRetired



Posts: 4223
Joined: 9/14/2004
From: Galloway, NJ, USA
Status: offline 		Is there such a radio?

(in reply to Broken)
       Post #: 33

RE: Shot Down - 10/18/2004 8:12:08 PM   
MikeMc



Posts: 572
Joined: 2/19/2004
From: Union City, CA, USA
Status: offline 		There's a discussion about radios and technology that can do this in the AMA forums. For use poor guys (besides having the pin) we just turn on the reciever first and watch for a few moments to see if anybody is flying our plane. If they really want to be elitists then they can buy their own airfield and keep the rest of us out.

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Sponge Mike Square Pants - Insubordinate Renegade Airforce (IRA 1)

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       Post #: 34

RE: Shot Down - 10/18/2004 8:15:56 PM   
CGRetired



Posts: 4223
Joined: 9/14/2004
From: Galloway, NJ, USA
Status: offline 		Good point. It's probably something that most (maybe not most, but many) people overlook. I do, as a matter of habit, but that doesn't help when you are flying, nor would the expensive gizmo on the transmitter. I guess it all comes down to diligence and faith that someone at the field won't do it by accident.

Personally, I think that there is a lot of paranoia going on in this thread. And I will still fly.

(in reply to MikeMc)
       Post #: 35

RE: Shot Down - 10/18/2004 8:16:15 PM   
CptCliffhanger



Posts: 411
Joined: 1/23/2002
From: san diego, CA, USA
Status: offline 		I'm flying more expensive planes every year.. I've got quite a bit tied up in my new 1/3rd scale edge.. I've got to say. It would really piss me off to have my plane destroyed becuase of someone elses neglect. I't a lot easier to handle the loss when it's your own fault.

That being said, when I load up the car in the morning, and get ready to fly, I am prepared to lose my plane and my investvestmen.. For whatever reason!I'd like to think that every modeler leaves the house with the same preperation.

This doesn't mean I have no resposibility to make sure that No one is flying on my frequency. But if you're the type of person that will kick somebodys' A$$ over a $6,000 toy. Then maybe you're not emotionally ready to be flying that toy.. Maybe you should get up that morning, and load a foamie jet, with a GWS ducted fan, and a 3-cell LiPo, into your car. Maybe you're prepared to lose that, without loosing your cool.

My point is: Just because you spend a certain amount on your hobby, doesn't mean you can expect someone else to spend that much on your hobby. The fact of the matter is; if some guy shows up next weekend, with a right flyer, and a magnum gp 40, in a 78 corolla station wagon, I have to accept the fact that he wont be able to replace my 1/3rd scale edge if he shoots it down.. It'll ruin my day, I'll be pissed, and I'll think less of him if he doesn't at least offer to do what he can affored. But, I'd think even less of myself, if I took it out on him, and his property!

Stephan

(in reply to MikeMc)
       Post #: 36

RE: Shot Down - 10/18/2004 8:30:36 PM   
seanreit



Posts: 6764
Joined: 4/17/2002
From: Cedar Park, TX, USA
Status: offline 		I disagree, anyone flying RC airplanes has a right to expect that anyone else flying an rc airplane knows that if he/she turns their transmitter on and shoots you down flying your RC airplane that they are totally 100% at fault as if they had physically come over and turned your transmitter off while it was in your hands. There is no differnce if the end result is your crashed airplane. I can't imagine a reasonable judge in the country not giving you a judgement on this if you can prove it with any amount of reason. The cost of the plane shot down would only justify whether or not it made sense to file suit or not. Obviosuly if you're shot down with a park flyer, or some other inexpensive model, the lost wouldn't seem to support the effort of the suit.

But if my $$$ thousand turbine gets shot down, I'll take a $100.00 a month for the duration. It's a tough lesson, but reasonable. If you give him a break on that, why don't you give him a break on child support if he makes some dumb decision some night with a chick? Or give him a break cause he's in a rental car when he hits your mustang and dents the door? Or any other number of excuses for "accidents happen".

(in reply to CptCliffhanger)
       Post #: 37

RE: Shot Down - 10/18/2004 8:42:37 PM   
CptCliffhanger



Posts: 411
Joined: 1/23/2002
From: san diego, CA, USA
Status: offline 		Well in that case, I agree with Broken.. You and your high dollar buddies should all get ham radio's. Then you have only each other to blame! And you can take turns buying each other new planes. :-)

(in reply to seanreit)
       Post #: 38

RE: Shot Down - 10/18/2004 9:01:45 PM   
CptCliffhanger



Posts: 411
Joined: 1/23/2002
From: san diego, CA, USA
Status: offline 		I'm a firm supporter that people should take responsibilities for thier actions.. You're right about that Sean. You have to keep in mind, that this is a hobby. Toys! Playground stuff! A modler needs to take some responsibility for the fact that He/She chose to spend what most other modlers would call an ungodly amount of money on thier "playgound equipment"

You bring up a child support analagy.. Good point! If I knock up some chick Saturday night...... You're right, I should have to pay Child support.. I should pay child support within my means! I shouldn't have to pay millions in child support just because the chick I happen to knock up, wants to raise her new child in a Beverly Hills mansion, where he watches Sponge Bob on a Big screen HDTV, and flies a Yellow Aircraft F-18 with a RAM 1000 by the time he's Twelve! OH NO!!! My boy living in a two bedroom cottage in Spokane WA where he flies his scratch built depron Ultimate in the backyard when he's finished with his homework! And that B*!&%^@ is paying ME!! :-) LOL

(in reply to CptCliffhanger)
       Post #: 39

RE: Shot Down - 10/18/2004 9:37:22 PM   
MikeMc



Posts: 572
Joined: 2/19/2004
From: Union City, CA, USA
Status: offline 		Sean, of course you see it differently, but the system as a whole is already setup for failure, and you know it.

Expensive plane guys, you know the system isn't perfect so you are resposible as well. You can NOT casually place blame on somebody else in a known faulty system.

1. Is there a manned impound or will a simple pin board be ok?
2. Are there new guys at your field that simple don't understand?
3. Are you willing to fly your $8000 plane with a known faulty system (anybody can transmit on any freq)?

Maybe $8000 is too much to risk if you don't like these answers.

< Message edited by MikeMc -- 10/18/2004 9:38:54 PM >

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Sponge Mike Square Pants - Insubordinate Renegade Airforce (IRA 1)

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