RE: Glue for Balsa to Foam??  
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All Forums >> RC Airplanes >> Profile and Fun Flying Planes >> OMP - Ohio Model Products Support Forum >> RE: Glue for Balsa to Foam??
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RE: Glue for Balsa to Foam?? - 10/28/2005 5:32 AM   
scolpit



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From: Santa MariaAzores, PORTUGAL
Status: offline 		I think im gonna buy a 65" yak, but im a little worried about the glue i should use on foam. Where i live i do not have access to many glues... i have access to epoxy and white glue only. Do you (OMP) sell Gorilla glue? I just need a little glue, ill make it thinner than possible I like white glue because its not a fast glue, its cheap, and i have it a lot. How does white glue reacts with glow fuel? Can i use it without any problems? Thanks.

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RE: Glue for Balsa to Foam?? - 11/3/2005 11:30 PM   
southern_touch9


 

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Status: offline 		Is there a reason nobody has used foam safe CA. I understand that the glue has to go deep into the foam but why not wood pecker it. It cures slow for CA but really fast for any of the other options.

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RE: Glue for Balsa to Foam?? - 12/9/2005 3:51 AM   
flybyjoe



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Status: offline 		I have never used gorilla glue, don't know as I've even seen any. The "sourdough glue" was good in it's time. However, I have cut and sheeted 25 to 30 wings in the last twelve or so years and always used 30 minute Z Poxy, one ounce per wing on good sized ones. I spread and carded the sheets only, for both sides, put it back in the cradle, and weighted them down with steel plates. If I run out of plates, doing several wings at one time, I used some ply and cement blocks. I've never had any slide, bubble or peel and never had any complaints from the recipients so, that is what I recommend. Oh, and I never dreamed of using anything as heavy as 200 lbs. or more. Seems to me that'll squish things up pretty good. lol

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RE: Glue for Balsa to Foam?? - 2/22/2006 7:04 PM   
mmattockx


 

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Status: offline 		For those who are unsure of the polyurethane glues, check out this excellent page on pattern wing construction (he adds only about 18g of glue to a 500sqin panel!):

http://www.mackrc.net/patternwings2/index.htm

For those who think that 200lb is too much weight, vacuum bagging applies MUCH more than that. 5" of vacuum is just under 2.5psi. On a 500sqin wing (half of a 2M pattern wing), that equals a load of 1250lb. And it will not crush even 1lb white foam...Good stuff for getting the best possible bond.


Mark

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RE: Glue for Balsa to Foam?? - 2/23/2006 5:34 AM   
flybyjoe



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Status: offline 		A few years ago, my son and I were cutting foam wings for customers (as AEROSMITH MODEL AVIATION). We used 30 min. epoxy carded on the sheeting, back into the mold and weighted with flat steel bars. I don't remember how much weight but sufficient, and on most wings, we only used 1 oz of epoxy per wing panel. Needless to say, we did many sets and never had a complaint of quality nor function. Nor did we ever have any sliding or bubbling. Personally I feel this is an easy, simple method and if something ain't broke, don't fix it. Of course there are other methods and all of them probably would work if done properly with diligence and common sense.

< Message edited by flybyjoe -- 2/23/2006 5:42 AM >

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RE: Glue for Balsa to Foam?? - 2/23/2006 5:50 AM   
flybyjoe



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Status: offline 		Well, I guess I'm gonna have to face it. I am getting OLD! I'm sorry fellas (and gals). Seems I have repeated myself to some extent. Didn't even remember responding to this blob before. However, as long as i'm here again, another item that may be useful to someone,. . . to make sheeting, we sanded straight edges, taped the 3" & 4" strips with masking tape on one side, turned them over and used thin CA down the seam. The tape keeps the CA from going all over the place and when you remove the tape, you have a seam that is sandable and of course there are three rules to sanding, my son always told me, and they are: 1. don' t press, 2. don't press and 3. DON'T PRESS!

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RE: Glue for Balsa to Foam?? - 2/23/2006 3:22 PM   
mmattockx


 

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quote:

We used 30 min. epoxy carded on the sheeting, back into the mold and weighted with flat steel bars. I don't remember how much weight but sufficient, and on most wings, we only used 1 oz of epoxy per wing panel.



Joe,

That is a very valid and time tested method. I could never get proper coverage on my larger wings with only 1oz of epoxy (my problem, not the method), where the polyurethanes add even less weight and are easier to get full coverage with. If you could get the epoxy to work, the the poly glues may not be an improvement. For those of us who could not get satisfactory results with epoxy, the poly glues are a better choice. YMMV


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RE: Glue for Balsa to Foam?? - 2/23/2006 3:51 PM   
flybyjoe



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Status: offline 		Yo Mark. At that time I had little or no experience with poly glues. I'm not even sure I know what they are exactly. I did have some experience with Dave Brown's Sorguhm and it worked but I didn't think as sure and easily as epoxy. You're probably right about youre poly glues. In any case, what ever works best for you and WORKS, that is the main goal, right? Like I said, to be sure anything works, it at least requires doing it properly, which includes preparation. It's similar to covering a plane, . . what ever you leave underneath, you're gonna have on the top. If you prepare it properly, you'll have a beautiful finish. Thanks for the comeback, Mark.

Joe

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RE: Glue for Balsa to Foam?? - 3/2/2006 7:56 PM   
scolpit



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Status: offline 		I used Poly glue on my yak. Its really easy to use. It was hard to find this glue here in Portugal. But i still have one question about this glue. Is it glow fuel proof?

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RE: Glue for Balsa to Foam?? - 3/2/2006 9:04 PM   
PlanePlanter


 

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Status: offline 		No it's not. You still need to coat all exposed wood with some thinned epoxy or CA (Be careful with the CA @ the foam)

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RE: Glue for Balsa to Foam?? - 3/2/2006 9:08 PM   
flybyjoe



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quote:

ORIGINAL: scolpit

I used Poly glue on my yak. Its really easy to use. It was hard to find this glue here in Portugal. But i still have one question about this glue. Is it glow fuel proof?


I'm only guessing but from reading articles in this site, I would say probably so. I would assume that Titebond wouldn't make anything that wasn't. However, Mark should be able to help you out on this. By the way, there is a very good post by Tony Hallo of Springdale, Penn. on cutting foam wings like I use to, and he also refers to his usage of poly glue. Oh, it's headlined Foam Wings! lol

< Message edited by flybyjoe -- 3/2/2006 9:09 PM >

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RE: Glue for Balsa to Foam?? - 3/2/2006 10:17 PM   
flybyjoe



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ORIGINAL: PlanePlanter

No it's not. You still need to coat all exposed wood with some thinned epoxy or CA (Be careful with the CA @ the foam)


Hey, there you go, Scolpit. An adament answer with conviction and an essence of experience. I do know that there is a foam safe compliant CA. A little more expensive, but worth it in some cases.

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RE: Glue for Balsa to Foam?? - 3/3/2006 5:39 PM   
PlanePlanter


 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: flybyjoe


quote:

ORIGINAL: PlanePlanter

No it's not. You still need to coat all exposed wood with some thinned epoxy or CA (Be careful with the CA @ the foam)


Hey, there you go, Scolpit. An adament answer with conviction and an essence of experience. I do know that there is a foam safe compliant CA. A little more expensive, but worth it in some cases.


HHHmmmmm, I was in a hurry when I posted.
Maybe a flat out no is the wrong answer (heaven knows I have been wrong before and will be again)
In my experience, oil still seeped into the balsa in areas where I had used poly glue. Now I will also tell you this, it was in a repaired area of the plane and one of the first few times I had ever used poly glue so maybe something else was going on. I have used poly glue many times since with excellent results but I also make sure to use thinned epoxy on any and all exposed wood and openings. So I'll retract my "no". And yes foam safe CA would be well worth it.

< Message edited by PlanePlanter -- 3/3/2006 7:12 PM >

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