Hawk III aerobatic possibilities  
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All Forums >> RC Helicopters >> Century - Predator, Hawk IV, Falcon, Raven >> Hawk III aerobatic possibilities
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Hawk III aerobatic possibilities - 8/10/2002 8:53:06 AM   
Bill Rademacher



Posts: 274
Joined: 12/31/2001
From: Rineyville, KY, USA
Status: offline 		Hi all,
I have a Hawk III, OS 32, Telebee gyro, stock blades.

I have just broken into forward flight, and I can hover all over.
I really love the Hawk III. What a sweet machine. Flies like a dream! My friends have Nexus and raptors, but I'll keep my Hawk III

I ws just curious though. Is anyone doing mild aerobatics with theirs? I'm just talking loops, rols, inverted hovering, etc. Not 3d.

Any advice? Setup info?

thanks

Bill R.
       Post #: 1

Hawk III Aerobatics - 8/11/2002 8:54:53 AM   
syclic



Posts: 1030
Joined: 2/8/2002
From: rural, AB, CANADA
Status: offline 		Hi Bill,

The Hawk III can be set up for all the aerobatics you mentioned then some. Like any other helicopter, when you set it with a proper symetrical 3D curve, an appropriately matched throttle curve and cyclic/throttle mixing it is very aerobatic. Even in fairly complex 3D manouvers. Of course, like any other heli, the better the blades, the better the overall performance. But the stock blades are quite aerobatics.

The IV is a more sturdy and nimble 3D'er because the longer 10mm mainshaft allows for a more cyclic/collective at the bottom and the 6mm feathering spindle/bearing system from the Falcon allows one to turn at the high RPM's required for longer without wearing the blade grip bearings.

Contrary to much hearsay, even the tube type tail rotor wire drive can be set with a good gyro and digital servo to lock on very well in backward flight (though nothing does so as well as a torque tube shaft drive.)

There are a number of local fellows doing all out 3D with theirs.

Syclic

(in reply to Bill Rademacher)
       Post #: 2

Hawk III aerobatic possibilities - 8/11/2002 8:21:53 PM   
Bill Rademacher



Posts: 274
Joined: 12/31/2001
From: Rineyville, KY, USA
Status: offline 		cool, thanks!

I have a telebee heading hold gyro, with high speed hitec servo mounted in the rear upgrade pracket. On heading hold, it is steady as a rock, and I have the mechanics set so I can switch between the gyro modes in flight.

Bill

(in reply to Bill Rademacher)
       Post #: 3

Hawk III aerobatic possibilities - 12/2/2002 5:27:40 PM   
firemanstat14


 

Posts: 23
Joined: 11/28/2002
From: Valley SPrings, CA, USA
Status: offline 		HEy!I just bought a hawk III complete and was just looking for opinons about it.I am new at helis but with all the kncoking people have been doing on it I am almost tempted to sell it and get a nexus before I hurt it? ??

(in reply to Bill Rademacher)
       Post #: 4

Hawk III - 12/3/2002 6:42:02 AM   
syclic



Posts: 1030
Joined: 2/8/2002
From: rural, AB, CANADA
Status: offline 		Firemanstat14

As I said earlier, the Hawk III is a great machine - far better then the Nexus. It has a better rotor head, better clutch system, better start system, better control system etc. etc. The Nexus wears out a lot faster also.

Believe me, anyone who knocks it are obviously not all that knowlegeable about the various systems used on all the various heli's. They are probably playing "follow the peer leader" instead of thinking for themselves. It may be their way of hidding their ignorance in such matters.

A number of years ago there was a lot of negative heresay locally about Century helicopters because one of the local "all talk - no action" locals had a bad experience with an old original used Hawk I. He did not want to admit that he did not know how to set it up properly. Another flyer bought it off of him and still flies it regularly, (I have even done 3D with it) but the fellow in question still bad mouths Century helis to any potential newbies whenever no one is around to tell the truth.

Today the Century heli's have become the most popular by far locally, taking over from Shuttles, Ergos and Raptors. Given just half a chance, they will win over a lot of die hards.

(in reply to Bill Rademacher)
       Post #: 5

Hawk III aerobatic possibilities - 12/5/2002 4:13:06 AM   
Lift



Posts: 575
Joined: 1/3/2002
From: Sugar Land, TX, USA
Status: offline 		Bill,
To answer you question specifically the ONLY things that are not "ideal" for full blown 3D on the Hawk III are:

1) The wire drive no matter how well you de-tune your gyro will have some torsional twisting that makes aggressive manuevers such as tic-tocks, piro-flips, continuous flips/rolls more challenging. Notice I didn't say impossible but challenging. All that happens is the tail likes to shake a bit during the load/unload of power in the midst of the manuever. Now, as far as wire drives go the Century system is the absolute best. But, I think that if you get to the point where you are doing true 3D then you should consider the torque tube upgrade. But, for inverted flight/hovering, rolls, loops, flips/tumbles, backwards flight, tailslides, funnels, you can will be fine.

2) Cyclic performance is set tame to begin with. If you run the stock paddles and weights and get into flips/stationary rolls and fine the machine to slow then change these to the MA 3D 3mm paddles. This will wake it up but expect it to be pitchy in FFF with woodies. These paddles will do fine with any of the quality composites out of the market that have some weight to them. In addtion you can modify the mixing ratios by changing some balls on the bell mixers and swash to create a more lively flybar. This gets sticky but if you take the time to understand the head you will come out with more knowledge than most heli flyers and have a sweeeeeeeeeeeet setup!!

Hope this helps. The Century helis are very nice. People are just now beginning to realize it!

(in reply to Bill Rademacher)
       Post #: 6

Hawk III - 12/14/2002 9:06:48 AM   
hkIIIflyr



Posts: 17
Joined: 12/14/2002
From: J-Vill, FL, USA
Status: offline 		In reference to the hawk III I have owned mine for a year now and set it up on my own. Luckily I havent destroyed it yet. It has taken me through hovering with the little practice Ive had. I have had good luck with it so far but the last few flight attempts have been unsuccessful as far as the pitch goes. A regular flyer put a tach to it and said it had plenty of head speed at mid stick. My question in conjunction with the 3D question above is what servo should be used on the pitch? A bb with the same torque as a standard or should I use a high torque because of all the moving parts on the collective?

Thanks HkIIIflyr

(in reply to Bill Rademacher)
       Post #: 7

Hawk III aerobatic possibilities - 12/14/2002 6:52:40 PM   
Lift



Posts: 575
Joined: 1/3/2002
From: Sugar Land, TX, USA
Status: offline 		hkIIIflyr,
It's best on a standard mix machine to use a collective servo with good torque an speed. Sure, a standard BB servo will work. But, they age quickly because they are being used at 100% of their capacity.

I would suggest a servo like the Futaba 9202 or better. The cripser the collective is the easier it is to hover and fly. Personally, I have put digitals in my machines but a good quality coreless BB servo will do fine.

How is your pitch and throttle curve setup? Mid stick hover or 3/4 stick?

How much pitch do you have at your hover position on the collective?

(in reply to Bill Rademacher)
       Post #: 8

re Lift - 12/15/2002 3:20:01 AM   
hkIIIflyr



Posts: 17
Joined: 12/14/2002
From: J-Vill, FL, USA
Status: offline 		Thanks for the advice on the servos, I just put in a bb by airtronices to test it out. I will definitely get a higher quality servo for the collective based on your experience. As far as the pitch curve and throttle curve, pitch is -2 low 5 mid and 10 high. The throttle is 0 low 50 % mid and 100 % high nothing to extreme.

Thanks Lift

(in reply to Bill Rademacher)
       Post #: 9

Hawk III aerobatic possibilities - 12/15/2002 12:20:12 PM   
Lift



Posts: 575
Joined: 1/3/2002
From: Sugar Land, TX, USA
Status: offline 		[QUOTE]I have had good luck with it so far but the last few flight attempts have been unsuccessful as far as the pitch goes[/QUOTE]
Well, your pitch curves look fine. Your throttle curve looks fine. That should leave you with needles assuming you don't have a hover pitch knob on your transmitter that has been turned way out.

So, what exactly do you mean by the above quote? What is it not doing?

(in reply to Bill Rademacher)
       Post #: 10

Re Lift - 12/18/2002 8:58:47 AM   
hkIIIflyr



Posts: 17
Joined: 12/14/2002
From: J-Vill, FL, USA
Status: offline 		Lift
With the heli not running all the setup looks fine, pitch and throttle needle valves. I have had it for over a year now and mechanically it worked great. Sorry about the confusing sentence about the pitch. What I was trying to say was the collective dent seem to be working correctly. As I increased the throttle and pitch to hover nothing was happening. The engine rpm's were definitely high enough for hovering but nothing was happening. If I increased the throttle to max the engine would scream but no hovering. With my brother on the controls I approached the heli at mid stick and noticed the swash-plate was not traveling the full range as if it was binding or the servo gave up. We shut it down and inspected everything and didn't see anything wrong. Tried it again with no luck. So I had an experienced pilot look at it and he said the standard servo went out, so I swapped it with the bb. Today I tried it again and still nothing. So I guess I'm going to have to put in a high torque. I DOT know if this is a normal problem or not but the heli will not get off the ground.

Sorry about the novel HkIIIflyr

(in reply to Bill Rademacher)
       Post #: 11

Hawk III aerobatic possibilities - 12/18/2002 7:59:16 PM   
Lift



Posts: 575
Joined: 1/3/2002
From: Sugar Land, TX, USA
Status: offline 		hkIIIflyr,

Ok, now I understand what your saying. This should be easy to fix but will require a few tests:

1) Test the strength of the collective servo. You can do this by holding the swashplate and moving the collective stick. It should have enough strength to make holding it slightly difficult. Now I not talking about putting a death grip on it. Just a some a decent amount of resistance. Do this also in testing the down movement. If you can easily stall the servo then you need to replace it. Any standard servo with at least 40 in/oz of torque will do the job.

2) Test the ball links. Pop the link off the collective servo and manually move the link like the servo would. It should be able to move smoothly. If not, then check all your ball links and resize them for smooth operation. A properly size link can rock side-to-side on the ball smoothly without being popped off the ball easily.

3) Test the thrust bearings. With the collective link still off grab each blade grip and pull away from each other as would happen when the rotor is up to speed. Pull fairly hard and try to turn each grip in both directions. Try REAL hard to identify any notchy feelings in the rotation of the grip. If you feel unsmooth movement the inspect the radial and thrust bearings. If the thrust bearings are dry the lubricate them with some Tri-flow Synthetic grease.

4) Test the swashplate/washout hub movement. While checking the ball links also look to make sure that the swashplate is clean and well lubricated with Tri-Flow Synthetic oil. If this does not slide smoothly then you will probably need to polish the mainshaft with some Finishing compound. This is pretty rare but is an area to check nonetheless.

Report back on your findings please.....

(in reply to Bill Rademacher)
       Post #: 12

Re Lift - 12/19/2002 8:21:24 AM   
hkIIIflyr



Posts: 17
Joined: 12/14/2002
From: J-Vill, FL, USA
Status: offline 		Lift
The standard servo I was using was worn out so I tried the bb and had the same problem. I basically used the method you spoke of by holding resistance on the swash-plate up and down. The bb did seem tighter than the standard.

As far as your list of things to check

!. The swashplate without the servo hooked up, does move freely up and down without any evident binding. None of the ball link linkages seem to want to pop off throughout the range.

2. The bearings and the feathering shaft have smooth movement as I twist the blade grips back and fourth. I have also replaced the shaft with a new one in case it was bent.

I have not sanded the main shaft with polishing compound though I do keep it oiled and oil it before flying and I keep it pretty clean.

I think the last thing to do is try a high torque servo and see what happens.

It is a weird problem to diagnose and nobody around flys century for help mainly TT and JR choppers witch are a little more expensive.

Ill try sanding the main shaft and get the new servo and let you know how it goes Thanks HkIIIflyr

(in reply to Bill Rademacher)
       Post #: 13