Why discontinue the HS5975HB servo?  
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All Forums >> Radios, Batteries, Clubhouse and more >> RC Radios, Transmitters, Receivers, Servos, gyros >> Radio Manufacturer Direct Support >> Hitec/MultiPlex Radios- Ask Hitec Customer Service >> Why discontinue the HS5975HB servo?
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Why discontinue the HS5975HB servo? - 10/15/2004 2:57:22 PM   
Capt Jim


 

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The HS5975HB specs look great, and the other similar servos in this series are not discontinued...so whats up with this? Some sources still have inventory, and at a good price, but before I buy 'em, I want to know that they are OK, and not a problem item, and that gears etc will still be available.
Thanks very much for your response.

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RE: Why discontinue the HS5975HB servo? - 11/22/2004 2:20:09 AM   
Rex Rutledge



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I am curious about this myself! I purchased 4 of the 5975HB servos several months back. The aircraft that will be using these servos is nearing completion. Is there a problem with the servos?

The original post/question is from October and was never answered.

Thanks you in advance!

Rex

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RE: Why discontinue the HS5975HB servo? - 11/22/2004 4:54:42 AM   
mglavin



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The 5975's were replaced by the new 6900 series. More choices for speed and power and beefier gear trains. These new Karbonite gear trains have approximately 30% more mass.

The 5975 are not problematic. Some have had issue with gear train failure in extreme uses. These servos or more specifically the Karbonite gear trains are not designed for high load and shock environments.

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RE: Why discontinue the HS5975HB servo? - 12/7/2004 10:37:33 PM   
lex2bits



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quote:

These servos or more specifically the Karbonite gear trains are not designed for high load and shock environments


The Karbonite gear trains are NOT designed for high load and shock?

Lex

< Message edited by lex2bits -- 12/7/2004 10:39:50 PM >


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RE: Why discontinue the HS5975HB servo? - 12/8/2004 1:07:45 AM   
mglavin



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quote:

ORIGINAL: lex2bits

The Karbonite gear trains are NOT designed for high load and shock?


Correct. They exhibit excellent resiliecne to wear and tear, but have been known to fail when subjected to high dynamic loads and shock.

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RE: Why discontinue the HS5975HB servo? - 12/8/2004 4:44:58 AM   
lex2bits



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quote:

but have been known to fail when subjected to high dynamic loads and shock.


Can you define "high dynamic loads" for me?


Lex

< Message edited by lex2bits -- 12/8/2004 5:09:59 AM >


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RE: Why discontinue the HS5975HB servo? - 12/8/2004 7:00:47 PM   
jonlowe


 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: mglavin

The 5975's were replaced by the new 6900 series. More choices for speed and power and beefier gear trains. These new Karbonite gear trains have approximately 30% more mass.


Michael,
I'm confused by your statement that the new 6900 series geartrains have more mass than the 5975s. The new 6975 and the discontinued 5975 both use the same replacement gearset, 55005, according to your website. In fact, the both use the same case also. Is this a mistake on your website, or they, in fact, the same?

Jon Lowe

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RE: Why discontinue the HS5975HB servo? - 12/8/2004 9:03:46 PM   
mglavin



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quote:

ORIGINAL: lex2bits

quote:

but have been known to fail when subjected to high dynamic loads and shock.


Can you define "high dynamic loads" for me?



I suppose I should digress somewhat BUT the concept is simple. "dynamic" as an adjective is defined as of or relating to energy or to objects in motion. Characterized by continuous change, activity, or progress: Marked by intensity and vigor; forceful, of or relating to variation of intensity. "Dynamic" as a noun: an interactive system or process, especially one involving competing or conflicting forces.

That said my reference is kind of a misnomer I suppose. I cannot provide any hard data or such. As I mentioned the servo was designed for small lightweight aircraft. A .40 size Funfly model with large control surfaces is not consistent with a small aircraft as the dynamic loads on these exaggerated surfaces are more than the gear train can withstand. The aforementioned conundrum together with the atypical poor or non existent mechanical advantage or linkage geometry associated with lots of travel and long servo arms is likely to be problematic for any mini servo IMO.

< Message edited by mglavin -- 12/8/2004 11:38:26 PM >


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RE: Why discontinue the HS5975HB servo? - 12/8/2004 10:59:47 PM   
mglavin



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quote:

ORIGINAL: jonlowe

quote:

ORIGINAL: mglavin

The 5975's were replaced by the new 6900 series. More choices for speed and power and beefier gear trains. These new Karbonite gear trains have approximately 30% more mass.


Michael,
I'm confused by your statement that the new 6900 series geartrains have more mass than the 5975s. The new 6975 and the discontinued 5975 both use the same replacement gearset, 55005, according to your website. In fact, the both use the same case also. Is this a mistake on your website, or they, in fact, the same?

Jon Lowe



Well, seems I was miss-informed. I will have to retract my previous statement about the taller Karbonite gear trains of the 6900 series servos, this is only true as compared to the 475 and 5475HB servos. Apparently someone jumped the gun with this information and later the idea was scuttled unbeknownst to me. I have mentioned this several time in the past to other's.

Thanks for bringing this to my attention, I was truly surprised when I attempted to verify my miss-information as I had discussed this many times with them previously.

< Message edited by mglavin -- 12/8/2004 11:11:09 PM >


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RE: Why discontinue the HS5975HB servo? - 12/8/2004 11:22:04 PM   
lex2bits



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Michael,

I apologize for not being more specific with my Q. Let's focus on the Karbonite servo in general terms.

I presume all servos are designed to stall before the gear train fails, or at least I would hope so.

Where does the word "high" fit in?

Is continuous or intermittent duty at the advertised max servo torque rating considered high? Or does "high" mean 125%, 150%, 200% of the torque rating?

The wear factor of Karbonite is highly desirable over that of MG's, but when does wear become secondary to strength?

For illustration purposes, let's say a manufacturer recommends 100 in/oz MG's for his 3D plane. Will a 100 in/oz Karbonite suffice?

Lex

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RE: Why discontinue the HS5975HB servo? - 12/8/2004 11:23:20 PM   
Geistware



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OK, let me put this in words and phrases I can understand.
If you are doing pattern or IMAC flying, then the servos are OK.
3D flying is a no - no

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RE: Why discontinue the HS5975HB servo? - 12/9/2004 4:55:20 AM   
mglavin



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quote:

ORIGINAL: lex2bits

I presume all servos are designed to stall before the gear train fails, or at least I would hope so.


I believe this typically not a problem. In as much as the gear trains seem to fail resisting flight loads. I to would expect any servo to live at its rated torque.

quote:

Where does the word "high" fit in?


High loads are realized with over-sized control surfaces, poor or inadequate linkage setups, wings and surfaces that flex and induce flutter, speed, heavy models and specific maneuvers that are hard on air frames as well servos.

quote:

Is continuous or intermittent duty at the advertised max servo torque rating considered high? Or does "high" mean 125%, 150%, 200% of the torque rating?


I don't have an absolute answer for you, however I believe this an incredibly viable question... Its my belief the gear train is subjected to loads outside there torque ratings intermittently for various reasons as mentioned above. When the gear train is subjected to this abuse it fails. Hitecs torque ratings from my tests and observations are conservative for the most part IMO. De-rating the servos maybe the answer. Additional research is needed here, I'll see what I can do.

quote:

The wear factor of Karbonite is highly desirable over that of MG's, but when does wear become secondary to strength?


I suggest it should not be a factor. The Karbonite gear trains may not work for everyone, there are simply to many variables that the users have control of that are outside the original R&D parameters. There are many modelers using the Karbonite stuff without issue and then there those that are having problems. I am aware of ganged installations on 33-40% models without issue. I am also aware of failures on 80" gas powered models on large aileron surfaces and such.

quote:

For illustration purposes, let's say a manufacturer recommends 100 in/oz MG's for his 3D plane. Will a 100 in/oz Karbonite suffice?


I think there are variables in this circumstance and its a tough call. That said I would probably not use the Karbonite's in this application. But as I mentioned the variables of the specific model and use might cause me to reconsider.

Sorry for not really answering your questions, I wish there was more concrete info available and we had answers for all circumstances. When you consider all the uses and abuses of these products its not uncommon to find many users with unsatisfactory results for whatever reason and then there all the happy users that far out weigh the problematic examples we often hear of.

< Message edited by mglavin -- 12/9/2004 4:58:27 AM >


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RE: Why discontinue the HS5975HB servo? - 12/9/2004 5:59:10 AM   
lex2bits



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Michael,
OK, I see your point, and thanks for responding in detail.

Geist,
Thank you for the absolute.

Lex

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RE: Why discontinue the HS5975HB servo? - 12/9/2004 7:12:33 AM   
mglavin



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quote:

ORIGINAL: Geistware

OK, let me put this in words and phrases I can understand.
If you are doing pattern or IMAC flying, then the servos are OK.
3D flying is a no - no


I don't think I can answer this with absolutes... With small aircraft, maybe 72" or so, glow power and single servo surfaces