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[Poll]

Top Flight p-38
I would buy a Gold Edition P-38.
  86% (146)
I'd like to see a Gold Edition P-38 but wouldn't buy one.
  7% (12)
I'm have no interest in a Gold Edition P-38.
  6% (11)


Total Votes : 169
(last vote on : 11/24/2008 5:02:48 PM)
(Poll will run till: -- )
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Top Flight p-38 - 10/19/2004 4:34:31 PM   
DamonTX


 

Posts: 351
Joined: 6/2/2002
From: Helotes, TX, USA
Status: offline 		FYI for anyone wanting a Top Flite P-38. On October 8, I wrote the following suggestion to Top Flite in the section of their website that allows modelers to contact them directly.

About a year ago I wrote suggesting that you produce a
P-38. GP now has the P-38 and I know that company is related to TF.
The reason I made the suggestion to TF rather than GP is because TF kits
are more for builders with more detail and craftsmanship needed to
complete them. The GP P-38 seems to be working out well but please tell
me if TF will ever produce a P-38 to go along with it's Gold Edition
kits. I've always been very impressed with the quality of the Gold
Edition kits and would be very enthusiatic about seeing one done for a
P-38.... Heck! I might even buy two of them!

Keep up the good work.
Damon Young

On October 19, I got the following response.

Dear Mr. Young,

We still want to do a P-38 in the TF line but there are some problems.
We have a company that is trying to bilk money out of the aircraft that
were built by Lockheed in WWII. They want a royalty for each model sold
and their royalty will mean that we can not make any money on this
project. We are still trying to do this and hope to someday soon. We
called the Great Planes version the Profile -38 to side step this a
little bit.

Best regards,

Kevin Burner
Sr. Manager Airplane Division

Mr. Burner was very kind for providing this candid response. I find it terrible that anyone would be so petty as to ask for a royalty high enough to keep another company from producing a model airplane that would do nothing but carry on this planes legacy! However it is nice to see that Top Flite has considered kitting a P-38 for their Gold Edition kits.

I don't know much about that it takes to produce model airplane kits, (but I do know a bunch about building them!). Is it common for the kit manufacturers to pay royalties for producing replicas of real airplanes?

If you have anything to add, please do..... And it would be even better if you'd show Top Flite that your interested by writing to them on their website.

< Message edited by DamonTX -- 10/19/2004 4:47:58 PM >
       Post #: 1

RE: Top Flight p-38 - 10/19/2004 4:51:13 PM   
William Robison



Posts: 20269
Joined: 11/10/2002
From: Mary Esther, Florida, FL, USA
Status: offline 		Damon:

The company is Lockheed. Several years ago, when Roadkill produced their version, an article appeared in one of the magazines detailing their problems with Lockheed after the introduction.

Bill.

_____________________________

Real Airplanes have Two Engines
AMA 25139 - More than 40 years.

(in reply to DamonTX)
       Post #: 2

RE: Top Flight p-38 - 10/19/2004 5:01:30 PM   
DamonTX


 

Posts: 351
Joined: 6/2/2002
From: Helotes, TX, USA
Status: offline 		Bill,
Thanks for the response. Now I'm gonna find a way to write Lockheed! Actually come to think of it... my uncle is a retired engineer from one of the big airplane companies. Not sure which but if I'm lucky then it's Lockheed!

Damon

(in reply to William Robison)
       Post #: 3

RE: Top Flight p-38 - 10/19/2004 5:47:41 PM   
scale dail


 

Posts: 820
Joined: 12/21/2002
From: Saugus, CA, USA
Status: offline 		I would be one of the first to buy one,but my assembly line is way behind schedual and production is backed up! I have not even started my VQ p-38 yet!

_____________________________

If it's not scale,it's not worth building.

(in reply to DamonTX)
       Post #: 4

RE: Top Flight p-38 - 10/19/2004 6:35:53 PM   
bob27s



Posts: 4924
Joined: 4/9/2002
From: Cleveland, OH, USA
Status: offline 		Interesting. I use to work for Lockheed. I dont recall hearing anything like this in the past with any of the aircraft.

There have been numerous models available of the P-38 available for the past 50 or so years. Not to mention R/C kits, plans and models of other Lockheed designs such as C-130, P-80, T-33, F-104, L-1011, Connie, F-16, F-117, and more recently the F-22 and F-38. (plus I guess you can add in the B-36 and F-111 too).

Why in the world would Lockheed single out the P-38 for copywrite/royalty ? Granted it is a unique aircraft of great historical significance......, but it just does not make any sense to licence model replicas.

You might as well start at the top....

I would write to Robert Stevens, CEO and also to Dain Hancock, Exec VP of the aeronatics business.
Maybe also Vance Coffman, Chairman and Id include Norm Augustine (former CEO and Exec committe chair). You should be able to address correspondence to any of these gentleman to

Lockheed Martin Corporation
6801 Rockledge Drive
Bethesda, MD 20817

Maybe also contact the communications and media folks at Ft.Worth

Mary Jo Polidore, Joe Stout

Lockheed Martin Aeronautics
Lockheed Boulevard
Fort Worth, TX 76108

I have no information if any other kit manufacturer has been required to provide royalty payments on a P-38. Maybe they all have, and we just didnt know about it. But I have my doubts.

If nothing else, one of these folks should be able to reply and at least verify (or discount) that Lockheed itself is requesting royalty. It may be that the 'rights' to the P-38 design are held by another company in some fashion (sorta like music publishing rights). Anything is possible.

Good thread. I will be sure to personally drop a note to each person listed above. If others become involved, I have no doubt it might make a difference.

Bob

< Message edited by bob27s -- 10/19/2004 6:40:43 PM >


_____________________________

Bob Brassell
Jett Engineering - Engine Mfg Support Forum Host

(in reply to scale dail)
       Post #: 5

RE: Top Flight p-38 - 10/19/2004 6:53:27 PM   
DamonTX


 

Posts: 351
Joined: 6/2/2002
From: Helotes, TX, USA
Status: offline 		Bob,
Thank you very much. Whata great post! I will be sure to write each of the individuals you mentioned.. today. From Mr. Burner's reply it did sound like another company may have the rights to the design. If I can just identify them, I'd like to kindly ask them to work with Top Flite because they'd do a good job re-creating this airplane.

Thanks,
Damon

(in reply to bob27s)
       Post #: 6

RE: Top Flight p-38 - 10/19/2004 7:03:08 PM   
William Robison



Posts: 20269
Joined: 11/10/2002
From: Mary Esther, Florida, FL, USA
Status: offline 		Bob:

Unless things have changed in the time since the merger with Glenn Martin, the company involved is none other than the Lockheed Aircraft Corporation.

The principals of RoadKill had the article, they told of putting their profile P-38 on the market, and then getting a nastygram from Lockheed accusing them of copyright infringement.

The parties reached an accord, which was noted in the article, and they apologised for having to raise the kit price to pay the royalty. It was that or stop production.

I have never heard of any other aircraft company doing this, and I've not heard of Lockheed doing it with any of their other planes. Strange.

Bill.

_____________________________

Real Airplanes have Two Engines
AMA 25139 - More than 40 years.

(in reply to DamonTX)
       Post #: 7

RE: Top Flight p-38 - 10/19/2004 7:09:18 PM   
Kelsey_B


 

Posts: 393
Joined: 5/25/2004
From: West, TX, USA
Status: offline 		If TF did produce this plane, what size would be preferred. I would probably want something that would use a pair of 2C 60s'.

(in reply to William Robison)
       Post #: 8

RE: Top Flight p-38 - 10/19/2004 7:13:09 PM   
DamonTX


 

Posts: 351
Joined: 6/2/2002
From: Helotes, TX, USA
Status: offline 		I imagine they'd do something in the .40 range that would give the option of having four stroke .52s. 2c .60s might bump it up to the ranks of their big P-47 which I think came along shortly after the smaller one.

(in reply to Kelsey_B)
       Post #: 9

RE: Top Flight p-38 - 10/19/2004 7:17:14 PM   
bob27s



Posts: 4924
Joined: 4/9/2002
From: Cleveland, OH, USA
Status: offline 		Bill...

strange indeed. I dropped a note to an old associate. Trying to see if I can get some info.

After the General Dynamics merger, Martin Marietta Merger.....and all of the others that make up the current Lockheed Martin corporation, one would think other issues like this may have arrisen.

You would think if they wanted to copywright a design, it would be the F-16. It is far more popular in print, imaging, merchandise, models, etc..... than the P-38.

Perhaps this is a unique case, and Lockheed managed to retain ownership of the design. Others, like the F-16, are designes owned by the airforce itself... and not subject to the same copywright policies and laws.

Lets see what we can find out here.

Royal, VQ, Gullows, Wing...... all make accurate and identifyable P-38 models. I wonder what the conditions are on those ?

Scary thing... Boeing owns what was left of Rockwell/North American Aviation. I wonder if they own rights to the P-51 ??

< Message edited by bob27s -- 10/19/2004 7:18:20 PM >


_____________________________

Bob Brassell
Jett Engineering - Engine Mfg Support Forum Host

(in reply to William Robison)
       Post #: 10

RE: Top Flight p-38 - 10/20/2004 5:50:13 AM   
Ram-bro


 

Posts: 2078
Joined: 1/22/2002
From: Bennington, NE, USA
Status: offline 		I oersonnally would rather see a F7F Tigercat. P38s although popular are becoming common, not quite P51 style but with the ARFs on the market....why not get original or is VQ the only out there anymore....P61 blackwidow

(in reply to bob27s)
       Post #: 11

RE: Top Flight p-38 - 10/20/2004 11:59:32 AM   
William Robison



Posts: 20269
Joined: 11/10/2002
From: Mary Esther, Florida, FL, USA
Status: offline 		I like the F7F. I have three Tigercats, if you include the stand way off scale "Tiggerkitty" (avatar), and I have NO p-38 models.

Bill.

_____________________________

Real Airplanes have Two Engines
AMA 25139 - More than 40 years.

(in reply to Ram-bro)
       Post #: 12

RE: Top Flight p-38 - 10/20/2004 2:55:45 PM   
jimcork1



Posts: 1005
Joined: 1/29/2002
From: Slidell, LA, USA
Status: online 		I am amazed to find out there are royalty issues on the P38,, it has been plastic kitted for years. There is no way the model will infrige on the profits from the sale of new P38's . I hope this is just big corporation red tape.

I would certainly be interested in the P38,, I am currently considering the C47,, and have just completed the C130. Umhhh wonder how much royalty was paid there.

Perhaps professional letters to the right? person might make a difference. There are currently other people building P38's and I have seen them fly. Umm wonder if they paid royalties. I do understand TF must meet all corporate legal guidelines but hope they can get around this bottleneck.

(in reply to William Robison)
       Post #: 13

RE: Top Flight p-38 - 10/21/2004 12:05:42 AM   
JGrc



Posts: 694
Joined: 2/24/2002
From: Pembroke Pines, FL, USA
Status: offline 		No I don't think I would be interested in a TF p38, there are already nice kits out there like this one http://vicrc.com/products_p38.htm
JG

(in reply to DamonTX)